How good was Doug Jones?
How good was Doug Jones?
Can anyone tell me how good was the late Doug Jones based on his fights with Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali), Bob Foster, the second Zora Folley fight, Eddie Machen, Harold Johnson and Pete Rademacher?
Re: How good was Doug Jones?
He wasn't that good of a Heavyweight... He made a great Light Heavyweight but Harold Johnson was an ATG Light Heavyweight who beat Heavyweights Eddie Machen and Ezzard Charles... Jones couldn't get past Johnson.
He became a Heavyweight by chowing down a lot --but he lacked a Heavyweight's frame... He was spindly and didn't have the arms, shoulders, or legs of a Heavyweight.... He fought George Chuvalo who many thought he would easily outbox... It was the worst possible matchup because Chuvalo walked right through his punches like they were rain drops and beat the Hell out of Jones... Frazier was another tough guy who could take anything a Light Heavyweight could throw... He kept trying to set Doug up for the perfect left hook... When he had him beaten up enough he did.
Another Heavyweight some thought he matched up well with was Ernie Terrell... Terrell was tall, inept, and skinny... He couldn't punch and was a stinker of a fighter with all his grabbing and holding... They thought Jones could get close, work Terrell over on the inside, and get him with his big right hand... Doug could hit real good with the right... Terrell proved to be too big and strong for him... He jabbed the living shitt out of Jones using his height, range, and greater physical strength.
He became a Heavyweight by chowing down a lot --but he lacked a Heavyweight's frame... He was spindly and didn't have the arms, shoulders, or legs of a Heavyweight.... He fought George Chuvalo who many thought he would easily outbox... It was the worst possible matchup because Chuvalo walked right through his punches like they were rain drops and beat the Hell out of Jones... Frazier was another tough guy who could take anything a Light Heavyweight could throw... He kept trying to set Doug up for the perfect left hook... When he had him beaten up enough he did.
Another Heavyweight some thought he matched up well with was Ernie Terrell... Terrell was tall, inept, and skinny... He couldn't punch and was a stinker of a fighter with all his grabbing and holding... They thought Jones could get close, work Terrell over on the inside, and get him with his big right hand... Doug could hit real good with the right... Terrell proved to be too big and strong for him... He jabbed the living shitt out of Jones using his height, range, and greater physical strength.
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Sidney Carton
- Welterweight
- Posts: 324
- Joined: 06 Jun 2016, 10:58
Re: How good was Doug Jones?
Doug Jones had bad luck getting his title chance against Harold Johnson.
Jones was better than any of the light heavyweight champions who came after Harold Johnson.
In fact, Doug Jones beat the best of those--Bob Foster.
Jones was better than any of the light heavyweight champions who came after Harold Johnson.
In fact, Doug Jones beat the best of those--Bob Foster.
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Ambling Alp II
- Super Middleweight
- Posts: 15181
- Joined: 04 Nov 2012, 18:31
Re: How good was Doug Jones?
To be fair to Foster, he weighed within the light heavy limit and Jones was several pounds over it when they fought.
It would have been interesting to see how well Jones would have done against light heavy champions like Willie Pastrano, Jose Torres and Dick Tiger.
Jones has some ability. He has some skill, some speed, some power. He fought some stiff competition, and his win/loss record is a little deceiving.
It would have been interesting to see how well Jones would have done against light heavy champions like Willie Pastrano, Jose Torres and Dick Tiger.
Jones has some ability. He has some skill, some speed, some power. He fought some stiff competition, and his win/loss record is a little deceiving.
Re: How good was Doug Jones?
I agree that Jones was good......
and it's a good idea for anyone who once believed or currently believes the malarkey that Jones somehow beat Cassuius, to go back and watch that fight today. He most certainly did not.
There was no real case for Jones winning that fight..... what the fuss was all about was that Jones was better than most people thought, and he did give a young Clay a very good competitive fight.
and it's a good idea for anyone who once believed or currently believes the malarkey that Jones somehow beat Cassuius, to go back and watch that fight today. He most certainly did not.
There was no real case for Jones winning that fight..... what the fuss was all about was that Jones was better than most people thought, and he did give a young Clay a very good competitive fight.
Re: How good was Doug Jones?
There's a great case for Doug Jones.... Mainly because he landed better and harder shots and dominated the ring space... That's the fight you knew Clay had a real good chin... Clay's big edge in size, strength, and showmanship made what he was doing look better than it was to some big Clay fans - some of whom were the officials and BuzzBox.
Re: How good was Doug Jones?
If Harold Johnson were better than Jose Torres he would have knocked out Pastrano instead of lose to him.... He was in no possible way as good as the Bob Foster with finished boxing skills -- which came when he had many more fights.Sidney Carton wrote: ↑07 Jan 2018, 12:44 Doug Jones had bad luck getting his title chance against Harold Johnson.
Jones was better than any of the light heavyweight champions who came after Harold Johnson.
In fact, Doug Jones beat the best of those--Bob Foster
Jones had 8 pounds on Foster who had only 9 fights... A ridiculous matchup and a suicide mission for Foster.
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Ambling Alp II
- Super Middleweight
- Posts: 15181
- Joined: 04 Nov 2012, 18:31
Re: How good was Doug Jones?
That was always one of boxing's great myths until the tape of the fight became available to the public. Hardly anyone argues it anymore. There are 6 rounds that Clay won clearly. It was a very exciting fight though.BoxBuzz wrote: ↑07 Jan 2018, 19:01 I agree that Jones was good......
and it's a good idea for anyone who once believed or currently believes the malarkey that Jones somehow beat Cassuius, to go back and watch that fight today. He most certainly did not.
There was no real case for Jones winning that fight..... what the fuss was all about was that Jones was better than most people thought, and he did give a young Clay a very good competitive fight.
Re: How good was Doug Jones?
Clay DID NOT win 6 rounds clearly v Doug Jones.... Neither judge gave Clay 6 rounds. They scored 5-4-1 for the favorite.
It was not a clear win, it was a close fight and the crowd booed the decision... Many sportswriters had Jones winning.
A UPI poll of 25 sportswriters at ringside had 13 for Jones, 10 for Clay with 2 scoring it a draw....
It was close and controversial, but Jones landed the cleaner and better punches... He was the aggressor most of the way. Some called it a robbery... Jones deserved the D... Clay had distinct advantages in height, weight, and reach.
It was not a clear win, it was a close fight and the crowd booed the decision... Many sportswriters had Jones winning.
A UPI poll of 25 sportswriters at ringside had 13 for Jones, 10 for Clay with 2 scoring it a draw....
It was close and controversial, but Jones landed the cleaner and better punches... He was the aggressor most of the way. Some called it a robbery... Jones deserved the D... Clay had distinct advantages in height, weight, and reach.
Re: How good was Doug Jones?
Kolon your like the bathroom faucet.....or maybe a french bidet......you run hot and cold.
And in this case you desperately need thicker glasses.
The REASON it was controversial is because Clay didn't live up to his hype.
This happens from time to time, when EXPECTATIONS are not met. It was assumed that it was going to be a bit easier of a win for Clay.....so for MANY like our friend K-Lo (our resident eclectician ) figured it was going to be easy so why not give it to the other guy for "being competitive". good idea right? Nope....
Kohler, (speaking of faucets) you seem to OFTEN fall into that (sink) trap. But just dry yourself off, scrape off the muck, and get into your right mindedness, and you'll figure this one out.
Another fight that falls into this sometimes is Tyson vs Ruddock the first. Since Tyson didn't knock him out....Razor must have won......but it just aint so.....even if you say it over and over again for a month. It still remains incorrect.
Kohler.....get yourself a good flush, and clear your mind. You'll end up right as rain. eventually.
And in this case you desperately need thicker glasses.
The REASON it was controversial is because Clay didn't live up to his hype.
This happens from time to time, when EXPECTATIONS are not met. It was assumed that it was going to be a bit easier of a win for Clay.....so for MANY like our friend K-Lo (our resident eclectician ) figured it was going to be easy so why not give it to the other guy for "being competitive". good idea right? Nope....
Kohler, (speaking of faucets) you seem to OFTEN fall into that (sink) trap. But just dry yourself off, scrape off the muck, and get into your right mindedness, and you'll figure this one out.
Another fight that falls into this sometimes is Tyson vs Ruddock the first. Since Tyson didn't knock him out....Razor must have won......but it just aint so.....even if you say it over and over again for a month. It still remains incorrect.
Kohler.....get yourself a good flush, and clear your mind. You'll end up right as rain. eventually.
Re: How good was Doug Jones?
BuzzBox.... You're like a bathroom toilet... A makeshift one the Sandinista's used in a holding pen where they crammed scores of POWs during their guerrilla campaign to overthrow the Somoza dictatorship... The stench of that thing reportedly got bad enough to make grown men heave... It was fulla you-know-what....so it certainly had a lot in common with you besides being a stinkpot... The thing didn't flush.
Of course if you could be flushed that would be nice.... but it seems impossible.
As for thicker glasses, my eyesight is perfect... Maybe you should suggest glasses for the 40% of the 25 attending reporters the UPI polled who covered Boxing at ringside, who thought Clay won the fight... 60% of them thought Clay DIDN'T win, so they must have had better eyesight and were nobody's fanboys.... I don't think there were that many Jones fans there...Clay had all the charisma and all the media hype... He was the drawing card... He was't a Black Muslim yet and he had a refreshing image and great looks.. The crowd roared as the 4th round started - in anticipation of Clay making good on another pre-fight prediction "They ALL fall in the round I CALL.".... Jones won that round handily to take a big lead.
Clay came back to the corner after the 4th and Dundee started yelling at him... "You can forget about that tomato red Cadillac after another round like that one son.. We're down bad, you need to put punches together." I guess he hadn't talked to the friendly referee -- who musta been BuzzBox's father.
Of course if you could be flushed that would be nice.... but it seems impossible.
As for thicker glasses, my eyesight is perfect... Maybe you should suggest glasses for the 40% of the 25 attending reporters the UPI polled who covered Boxing at ringside, who thought Clay won the fight... 60% of them thought Clay DIDN'T win, so they must have had better eyesight and were nobody's fanboys.... I don't think there were that many Jones fans there...Clay had all the charisma and all the media hype... He was the drawing card... He was't a Black Muslim yet and he had a refreshing image and great looks.. The crowd roared as the 4th round started - in anticipation of Clay making good on another pre-fight prediction "They ALL fall in the round I CALL.".... Jones won that round handily to take a big lead.
Clay came back to the corner after the 4th and Dundee started yelling at him... "You can forget about that tomato red Cadillac after another round like that one son.. We're down bad, you need to put punches together." I guess he hadn't talked to the friendly referee -- who musta been BuzzBox's father.
Re: How good was Doug Jones?
Would Doug Jones fight on rather than retiring in 1967 at age 30 or he had nothing left?
Re: How good was Doug Jones?
Kalan wrote: ↑09 Jan 2018, 01:25 BuzzBox.... You're like a bathroom toilet... A makeshift one the Sandinista's used in a holding pen where they crammed scores of POWs during their guerrilla campaign to overthrow the Somoza dictatorship... The stench of that thing reportedly got bad enough to make grown men heave... It was fulla you-know-what....so it certainly had a lot in common with you besides being a stinkpot... The thing didn't flush.
Of course if you could be flushed that would be nice.... but it seems impossible.
As for thicker glasses, my eyesight is perfect... Maybe you should suggest glasses for the 40% of the 25 attending reporters the UPI polled who covered Boxing at ringside, who thought Clay won the fight... 60% of them thought Clay DIDN'T win, so they must have had better eyesight and were nobody's fanboys.... I don't think there were that many Jones fans there...Clay had all the charisma and all the media hype... He was the drawing card... He was't a Black Muslim yet and he had a refreshing image and great looks.. The crowd roared as the 4th round started - in anticipation of Clay making good on another pre-fight prediction "They ALL fall in the round I CALL.".... Jones won that round handily to take a big lead.
Clay came back to the corner after the 4th and Dundee started yelling at him... "You can forget about that tomato red Cadillac after another round like that one son.. We're down bad, you need to put punches together." I guess he hadn't talked to the friendly referee -- who musta been BuzzBox's father.
I see we agree, indeed it was the EXPECTATIONS that were let down.....and so...in the majority of the goofy media's eyes he didn't quite win. Because the WIN should have looked a bit different. It was graded on a curve.... I'll hire you when I need my point made...cuz you're good at it. Now go buy yourself a Coke and enjoy. And get me a pastrami on rye while your out.
Re: How good was Doug Jones?
Right.... Traipse through moonbeams .... tell reporters covering the fight what they really think .... and call them goofy.
How about: FAKE NEWS FLASH... "The Majority of Sportswriters Had Clay Winning -- But They Won't Tell Us."
How about: FAKE NEWS FLASH... "The Majority of Sportswriters Had Clay Winning -- But They Won't Tell Us."
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Controversial
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 9186
- Joined: 13 Jul 2002, 18:29
Re: How good was Doug Jones?
From memory I had Ali winning it.
Re: How good was Doug Jones?
Well as is often the case.....a fighter who's expected to win BIG.....and barely gets it done....DESERVES to lose in SOME peoples eyes.......
Because they are either sweetly sentimental or bitterly biased......by the way......Which of these categories describe you best?
Re: How good was Doug Jones?
They both describe YOU... I only deal in facts... You deal in conjecture and questioning other peoples’ motives for judging why YOUR favorite boxer lost a fight... You will twist people’s thoughts, biases and prejudices to come up with a reason why they didn’t mean what they say. I take reporters at their word when they judge a boxer to be a winner or a loser.
Judges are a different story. They’re more likely to judge a boxer to be a winner or loser because they’re paid a lot of money to favor one fighter. Ostensibly they're paid huge chunks of tax free money to "ensure fairness."
“Now don’t give us a round if we don’t win that round... We don’t want to cause a scandal and have the heat come down on us... We don’t want to cheat anybody... But, you know, a lot of decisions are controversial... People have different opinions about who won a round or a fight. This is just normal and people will argue about who won a fight forever..."
"So if a round is close? If it could go either way? If we think you gave us a fair shake in that round – and there’s a good overall result for us with the decision – you’ll get 10 X what’s in this envelop after the fight. And you’ll get other big assignments going forward that are a lot more lucrative.” .... That way "fairness" (corruption) is ensured.
Judges are a different story. They’re more likely to judge a boxer to be a winner or loser because they’re paid a lot of money to favor one fighter. Ostensibly they're paid huge chunks of tax free money to "ensure fairness."
“Now don’t give us a round if we don’t win that round... We don’t want to cause a scandal and have the heat come down on us... We don’t want to cheat anybody... But, you know, a lot of decisions are controversial... People have different opinions about who won a round or a fight. This is just normal and people will argue about who won a fight forever..."
"So if a round is close? If it could go either way? If we think you gave us a fair shake in that round – and there’s a good overall result for us with the decision – you’ll get 10 X what’s in this envelop after the fight. And you’ll get other big assignments going forward that are a lot more lucrative.” .... That way "fairness" (corruption) is ensured.