Heavyweight rankings: post-Lewis era

[Boxing Writer]

How do you rank heavyweights of the post-Lewis era based on achievements only, not H2H? Post your top-10 please.

[gilgamesh]

1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. Anthony Joshua
4. Alexander Povetkin
5. David Haye
6. Ruslan Chagaev
7. Lamon Brewster
8. Deontay Wilder
9. Samuel Peter
10. Tyson Fury


Yep...it's been pretty abysmal

[Boxing Writer]

1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. Anthony Joshua
4. Alexander Povetkin
5. David Haye
6. Ruslan Chagaev
7. Lamon Brewster
8. Deontay Wilder
9. Samuel Peter
10. Tyson Fury


Yep...it's been pretty abysmal

[Boxing Writer]

Mine top-10:

1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. Chris Byrd (I take into account his all resume, although he scored all his best wins when Lewis was still active)
4. Anthony Joshua
5. Tyson Fury
6. Alexander Povetkin
7. Lamon Brewster
8. David Haye
9. Ruslan Chagaev
10. Samuel Peter/Sultan Ibragimov (tie)

I didn't include Sanders, Tua and Rahman because they didn't score any wins over top-10 opponents since June 2003 (Lewis' last fight).

[gilgamesh]

Mine top-10:

1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. Chris Byrd (I take into account his all resume, although he scored all his best wins when Lewis was still active)
4. Anthony Joshua
5. Tyson Fury
6. Alexander Povetkin
7. Lamon Brewster
8. David Haye
9. Ruslan Chagaev
10. Samuel Peter/Sultan Ibragimov (tie)

I didn't include Sanders, Tua and Rahman because they didn't score any wins over top-10 opponents since June 2003 (Lewis' last fight).

I would've had Chris Byrd ranked highly as well under this same critieria. I was going off of the way they had performed since Lewis' retirement.

Byrd looked pretty mediocre in all of his Post-Lewis retirement fights. He squeaked by Jameel McCline in a fight you could argue he lost, he got a draw with Golota again in a fight you could argue he lost, prior to that he struggled with Fres Oquendo in 2003, and then got knocked out by Wlad after the McCline loss if memory serves.

But yeah if you take into account his whole career Byrd is definitely on the list.

Sidenote: I don't think Sanders, Tua or Rahman would be included even when you DO take their whole careers into account. Rahman is one of Boxing's big one hit wonders, same as Corrie Sanders really, but Hasim's one hit was bigger. Tua had a very exciting career, but never consistently performed at a high level even at his best. I always liked the Tuaman though.

[Kalan]

Mine top-10:

3. Chris Byrd (I take into account his all resume, although he scored all his best wins when Lewis was still active)

In such a case, my list is:

1. Vitali Klitschko
2. Wladimir Klitschko
3. Anthony Joshua
4. Deontay Wilder
5. Tyson Fury
6. Alexander Povetkin
7. David Haye
8. Sultan Ibragimov
9. Ruslan Chagaev
10. Corrie Sanders
11. Oliver McCall
12. Hasim Rahman

If you're going to take entire resume's into account -- Corrie Sanders upset win over Wladimir Klitschko stands out as a super impressive and extremely dominant win.... Byrd couldn't do CRAP against Wladimir except do a good imitation of a punching bag.... Byrd's win over Vitali is one of the luckiest wins of all time because he had a 1-armed man in front of him and couldn't even out-score him... He was losing the fight big time on all cards when Klitschko's rotator cuff assembly severed into 2 pieces... Byrd's effort against Ike Ibeabuchi sucked wind to beat Hell... He was getting ripped up and down before getting bombed out... He also lost to a very green Alexander Povetkin and drew with the pathetic Foul Pole Golota... So I don't see that he did very much of anything. I have Wilder ranked so high, not because he beat anybody good yet.. but he's a super impressive puncher...

Luis Ortiz deserves honorable mention because he's the best southpaw Heavyweight of all time - but he hasn't accomplished anything because the corruption in Boxing sidelined him until he was aged out...

I thought I would include McCall and Rahman... Taking their entire resume into account they both FLATTENED Lennox Lewis with impressive 1-punch KO wins .... and Lewis was one of the 5 best Heavyweights of the 21st Century.

The reason I rank Vitali ahead of Wladimir is because he had to take 4 years off to rehab his legs and was a 3 X Heavyweight Champion who's never been knocked down or out-scored in any fight... His victim list is impressive because 3 guys who knocked Wladimir down a total of 8 times ALL lost by KO to Vitali.

Vitali Klitschko opponents and results

Corrie Sanders... 39-2... Wins Heavyweight Championship... 8 round stoppage
Herbie Hide... 31-1... Wins Heavyweight Championship... KO 2
Sam Peter... 30-1... Wins Heavyweight Championship... 8 round stoppage
Tomasz Adamak... 44-1... 2-Division World Champion and never stopped before. KO 10
Juan Carlos Gomez... 44-1... Former World Cruiserweight Champion. KO 9
Odlanier Solis...17-0 undefeated Olympic Gold Medal winner. 1st round KO
Manuel Charr... 21-0 undefeated top ranked contender. Stoppage on cut in 4 rounds
Kevin Johnson... 22-0-1 undefeated top ranked contender. Swept every round on 2 cards
Chris Arreola... 27-0 undefeated top ranked contender. 10 round stoppage
Kirk Johnson... 34-1-1... Only previous loss was a ticky-tac DQ… 2 round KO
Timo Hoffman... 22-0... Bigger and taller than Vitali... Swept every round in 2 cards
Ed Mahone... 21-0-2... Undefeated contender... KO 3
Shannon Briggs, 51-5-1... 2-time Heavyweight Champion. Swept every round of UD
Chris Byrd, 30-1... Winning easily on all scorecards when forced to retire due to a completely severed rotator cuff assembly. He entered the ring with a slight tear, thinking he could fight through it, but it soon got a lot worse and eventually severed.. Vitali retired after the 9th.
Lennox Lewis, 40-2-1... Vitali was winning on all scorecards when it was stopped on cuts on his left eyelid caused by foul blows... If they went to the scorecards Vitali wins Unanimous TD 6

They should have because of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtdOteT5G0Q .... 1. demonstrates illegal thumb-strike with classic swatting motion at the elbow and rotation of the wrist as the thumb area strikes the eyelid.... 2. followed by illegal head grab... 3. followed by rubbing head and hair into the wound.... 4. followed by holding-n-hitting foul... 5. holding-n-hitting with a palm rake which ripped open 2 cuts on the left eyelid and 1 on left cheek... 5 fouls in all.

[Ambling Alp II]

1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. Anthony Joshua
4. Alexander Povetkin
5. David Haye
6. Ruslan Chagaev
7. Lamon Brewster
8. Deontay Wilder
9. Samuel Peter
10. Tyson Fury


Yep...it's been pretty abysmal

It certainly is. Perhaps most disappointing, is how rare these guys have fought each other. Take Wladimir Klitschko out of the equation. I believe Povetkin-Chagaev and V. Klitschko-Peter are the only two fights between the other 9 guys! That is incredible.

[Ned Merrill]

1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. Anthony Joshua
4. Alexander Povetkin
5. David Haye
6. Ruslan Chagaev
7. Lamon Brewster
8. Deontay Wilder
9. Samuel Peter
10. Tyson Fury


Yep...it's been pretty abysmal

While I enjoy and respect almost all of the opinions I come across in this forum, I have to wonder out loud, just what, some plastic and broken promises (both verbal and expected), names such as Chagaev, Haye, Peter, Brewster and Povetkin, have done to eclipse or even surpass Tyson Fury, the man who essentially toppled a very firmly entrenched World heavyweight champion. Further to that end, it allowed sanctioning body tomfoolery, which enabled Anthony Joshua to move forward towards a title shot, via fast track.

Granted, Fury has pissed off a lot of people by speaking out firmly against several established narratives, and his Jekyll/Hyde routine does tend to make it hard to love the guy, but I believe it has become sexy to denigrate him and what he accomplished, more so than to credit him. Bias tends to compromise objectivity, especially when there is a sharp tongue involved, in this day and age of being offended.

On another note, I thought Vitali's comeback against Peter was magnificent. It looked almost as though there'd been no extended lay-off and he was rock solid.

[Boxing Writer]

1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. Anthony Joshua
4. Alexander Povetkin
5. David Haye
6. Ruslan Chagaev
7. Lamon Brewster
8. Deontay Wilder
9. Samuel Peter
10. Tyson Fury


Yep...it's been pretty abysmal

While I enjoy and respect almost all of the opinions I come across in this forum, I have to wonder out loud, just what, some plastic and broken promises (both verbal and expected), names such as Chagaev, Haye, Peter, Brewster and Povetkin, have done to eclipse or even surpass Tyson Fury, the man who essentially toppled a very firmly entrenched World heavyweight champion. Further to that end, it allowed sanctioning body tomfoolery, which enabled Anthony Joshua to move forward towards a title shot, via fast track.

Granted, Fury has pissed off a lot of people by speaking out firmly against several established narratives, and his Jekyll/Hyde routine does tend to make it hard to love the guy, but I believe it has become sexy to denigrate him and what he accomplished, more so than to credit him. Bias tends to compromise objectivity, especially when there is a sharp tongue involved, in this day and age of being offended.

On another note, I thought Vitali's comeback against Peter was magnificent. It looked almost as though there'd been no extended lay-off and he was rock solid.

Brewster beat younger version of Wlad, demolished Golota, who was better than Chisora, and KO'ed Krasniqui, who was better than Hammer, so I can see some logic here, although I rank Fury ahead of all those guys including Brewster.

[gilgamesh]

1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. Anthony Joshua
4. Alexander Povetkin
5. David Haye
6. Ruslan Chagaev
7. Lamon Brewster
8. Deontay Wilder
9. Samuel Peter
10. Tyson Fury


Yep...it's been pretty abysmal

While I enjoy and respect almost all of the opinions I come across in this forum, I have to wonder out loud, just what, some plastic and broken promises (both verbal and expected), names such as Chagaev, Haye, Peter, Brewster and Povetkin, have done to eclipse or even surpass Tyson Fury, the man who essentially toppled a very firmly entrenched World heavyweight champion. Further to that end, it allowed sanctioning body tomfoolery, which enabled Anthony Joshua to move forward towards a title shot, via fast track.

Granted, Fury has pissed off a lot of people by speaking out firmly against several established narratives, and his Jekyll/Hyde routine does tend to make it hard to love the guy, but I believe it has become sexy to denigrate him and what he accomplished, more so than to credit him. Bias tends to compromise objectivity, especially when there is a sharp tongue involved, in this day and age of being offended.

On another note, I thought Vitali's comeback against Peter was magnificent. It looked almost as though there'd been no extended lay-off and he was rock solid.

Tyson Fury's biggest win is Wladimir Klitschko right? Well Lamon Brewster knocked out a better Wladimir Klitschko than the one Tyson Fury fought. Aside from that he defended his title 3 or 4 times, and has a solid KO 1 win over Andrew Golota which is better than anything Fury has done.

Ruslan Chagaev beat Nicolay Valuev convincingly, and has a solid record, but if you wanted to flip him around with Brewster on my list I wouldn't argue with you.

They both did more than Fury has done. Fury is still young, and can still add to his legacy. As of this moment, he ain't got much of one.

[Ambling Alp II]

None of them have much of a legacy. Wladimir is only one who beat more than one of the other guys (and he got embarrassed by three other fighters.) Go to another era and you will find that the top guys fought each other more often.
In another era, we would be taking about fights that the top 10 guys actually had between each other.

It is difficult to rate these guys. We are basically comparing a bunch of guys with glossy win/loss records against weak competition. With four "word titles" it makes no sense for a contender to fight another contender. Usually the best contender available for a "champion" is against someone who is undefeated against nobodies and is probably not that good.

[Kalan]

Try watching 2.54 of this clip which DOESN'T suit your perverted agenda. Not only can you see the CLEAN punch that opens Vitali's eyelid, you can hear it land

From that angle you can't see the execution of the thumbstrike...

You have to be much closer... on Lewis's right side... and you have to view it in slo-mo.... Try watching this one because it captures the the swatting motion, the rotation of the wrist, and the thumb slicing the eyelid in slo-mo... It also shows the illegal head grab... the rubbing of the hair and head into the wound... and the holding-n-hitting palm slash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtdOteT5G0Q

In your full speed clip it appears to many inexperienced people that Lewis landed a right hook... In slo-mo, you see the thumb slicing past the eye on the LEFT side of Vitali's head BEFORE Lewis brings it through like a right hook... That's great thumbstriking technique, but you can't fool a slo-mo camera filming from a good viewable angle.

[HomicideHenry]

Since Lennox Lewis?

1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. Tyson Fury
4. Corrie Sanders
5. Deontay Wilder

Honorable mention: David Haye

[Kalan]

Since Lennox Lewis?

1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. Tyson Fury
4. Corrie Sanders
5. Deontay Wilder

Honorable mention: David Haye

Sanders can be ranked in the top 10 off one spectacular win over an admittedly very flawed (at the time) Heavyweight, who also lost to other less than stellar Heavyweights, before he teamed with Steward....

But how many losses did Sanders have? .... Who did he beat post Lewis? .... And how many Title Fights did he ever win???

Same with Fury.... He fails to stop an aging Wladimir Klitschko... Then he FO's for 3 years....and he's number 3???

[jamamb]

1. aj
2. wlad

the rest

[HomicideHenry]

Since Lennox Lewis?

1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. Tyson Fury
4. Corrie Sanders
5. Deontay Wilder

Honorable mention: David Haye

Sanders can be ranked in the top 10 off one spectacular win over an admittedly very flawed (at the time) Heavyweight, who also lost to other less than stellar Heavyweights, before he teamed with Steward....

But how many losses did Sanders have? .... Who did he beat post Lewis? .... And how many Title Fights did he ever win???

Same with Fury.... He fails to stop an aging Wladimir Klitschko... Then he FO's for 3 years....and he's number 3???

Sanders I have in there based off his performances against both Klitschko brothers. He arguably gave Vitali the toughest fight of his life, which is pretty good considering most people couldn't do crap against Vitali. Throw in Sanders being a good sized, good powered, good hand speed, fast starting southpaw... That plays hell on most anybody... His problem, though, was mentality. He preferred golfing over boxing. But when he was determined, it took special people to put him away.

As for Fury... The first man to ever out box Klitschko, the man to end Klitschko's reign of eight years and 20 some odd defensed... Who made Chisora quit (essentially) with jabs alone in the rematch... Who went undefeated despite fighting three or four title eliminators... Who had numerous amateur and professional titles in a relatively short amount of time... 6'9" with the mobility and hand speed of a cruiserweight, who could switch to southpaw at any time... Like it or not that's a tough assignment for anyone.

Joshua essentially became champion due to politics, and fought life and death with an older, slower, inactive Klitschko. His last title defense against the 5'10" foreigner, who took the fight on a week or two's notice, was horrible. He's got much to learn, despite the "Superman" hype the public is told about him.

Wilder, at least, has had alot of fights and alot of title defenses even if they are mainly against fringe contenders. Hes established himself as a legitimate champion, in my estimation, and his hand speed and power combined with size and unpredictability makes him dangerous to Joshua who doesn't have the best of chins.

[jamamb]

the idea that lewis didnt legit beat vitali is so absurd that the ppl taking time to argue against it actually end up looking lol too

[Ned Merrill]

1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. Anthony Joshua
4. Alexander Povetkin
5. David Haye
6. Ruslan Chagaev
7. Lamon Brewster
8. Deontay Wilder
9. Samuel Peter
10. Tyson Fury


Yep...it's been pretty abysmal

While I enjoy and respect almost all of the opinions I come across in this forum, I have to wonder out loud, just what, some plastic and broken promises (both verbal and expected), names such as Chagaev, Haye, Peter, Brewster and Povetkin, have done to eclipse or even surpass Tyson Fury, the man who essentially toppled a very firmly entrenched World heavyweight champion. Further to that end, it allowed sanctioning body tomfoolery, which enabled Anthony Joshua to move forward towards a title shot, via fast track.

Granted, Fury has pissed off a lot of people by speaking out firmly against several established narratives, and his Jekyll/Hyde routine does tend to make it hard to love the guy, but I believe it has become sexy to denigrate him and what he accomplished, more so than to credit him. Bias tends to compromise objectivity, especially when there is a sharp tongue involved, in this day and age of being offended.

On another note, I thought Vitali's comeback against Peter was magnificent. It looked almost as though there'd been no extended lay-off and he was rock solid.

Tyson Fury's biggest win is Wladimir Klitschko right? Well Lamon Brewster knocked out a better Wladimir Klitschko than the one Tyson Fury fought. Aside from that he defended his title 3 or 4 times, and has a solid KO 1 win over Andrew Golota which is better than anything Fury has done.

Ruslan Chagaev beat Nicolay Valuev convincingly, and has a solid record, but if you wanted to flip him around with Brewster on my list I wouldn't argue with you.

They both did more than Fury has done. Fury is still young, and can still add to his legacy. As of this moment, he ain't got much of one.

While I respect your points, I do-not-believe Brewster stopped "a better Wladimir Klitschko". I believe he stopped a younger Klitschko, but as a long reigning heavyweight champion who had dominated the division for almost a decade, I believe Fury check-mated a Klitschko with far superior experience and stern, much-improved self belief.

[Ned Merrill]

1. Wladimir Klitschko
2. Vitali Klitschko
3. Anthony Joshua
4. Alexander Povetkin
5. David Haye
6. Ruslan Chagaev
7. Lamon Brewster
8. Deontay Wilder
9. Samuel Peter
10. Tyson Fury


Yep...it's been pretty abysmal

While I enjoy and respect almost all of the opinions I come across in this forum, I have to wonder out loud, just what, some plastic and broken promises (both verbal and expected), names such as Chagaev, Haye, Peter, Brewster and Povetkin, have done to eclipse or even surpass Tyson Fury, the man who essentially toppled a very firmly entrenched World heavyweight champion. Further to that end, it allowed sanctioning body tomfoolery, which enabled Anthony Joshua to move forward towards a title shot, via fast track.

Granted, Fury has pissed off a lot of people by speaking out firmly against several established narratives, and his Jekyll/Hyde routine does tend to make it hard to love the guy, but I believe it has become sexy to denigrate him and what he accomplished, more so than to credit him. Bias tends to compromise objectivity, especially when there is a sharp tongue involved, in this day and age of being offended.

On another note, I thought Vitali's comeback against Peter was magnificent. It looked almost as though there'd been no extended lay-off and he was rock solid.

Brewster beat younger version of Wlad, demolished Golota, who was better than Chisora, and KO'ed Krasniqui, who was better than Hammer, so I can see some logic here, although I rank Fury ahead of all those guys including Brewster.

Solid points you've made. Like you I too rank Fury ahead of all those guys. Not simply because of the stats, but because of the mountain that he climbed, so to speak, in dethroning a long-reigning, very dominant heavyweight star.

[gilgamesh]

While I enjoy and respect almost all of the opinions I come across in this forum, I have to wonder out loud, just what, some plastic and broken promises (both verbal and expected), names such as Chagaev, Haye, Peter, Brewster and Povetkin, have done to eclipse or even surpass Tyson Fury, the man who essentially toppled a very firmly entrenched World heavyweight champion. Further to that end, it allowed sanctioning body tomfoolery, which enabled Anthony Joshua to move forward towards a title shot, via fast track.

Granted, Fury has pissed off a lot of people by speaking out firmly against several established narratives, and his Jekyll/Hyde routine does tend to make it hard to love the guy, but I believe it has become sexy to denigrate him and what he accomplished, more so than to credit him. Bias tends to compromise objectivity, especially when there is a sharp tongue involved, in this day and age of being offended.

On another note, I thought Vitali's comeback against Peter was magnificent. It looked almost as though there'd been no extended lay-off and he was rock solid.

Tyson Fury's biggest win is Wladimir Klitschko right? Well Lamon Brewster knocked out a better Wladimir Klitschko than the one Tyson Fury fought. Aside from that he defended his title 3 or 4 times, and has a solid KO 1 win over Andrew Golota which is better than anything Fury has done.

Ruslan Chagaev beat Nicolay Valuev convincingly, and has a solid record, but if you wanted to flip him around with Brewster on my list I wouldn't argue with you.

They both did more than Fury has done. Fury is still young, and can still add to his legacy. As of this moment, he ain't got much of one.

While I respect your points, I do-not-believe Brewster stopped "a better Wladimir Klitschko". I believe he stopped a younger Klitschko, but as a long reigning heavyweight champion who had dominated the division for almost a decade, I believe Fury check-mated a Klitschko with far superior experience and stern, much-improved self belief.

The Klitschko that fought Brewster was aggressive, attacking and did more damage to Brewster in 1 round than he did to Fury in 12. He didn't even fight against Fury, he just looked at him for 12 rounds.

[Ned Merrill]

Tyson Fury's biggest win is Wladimir Klitschko right? Well Lamon Brewster knocked out a better Wladimir Klitschko than the one Tyson Fury fought. Aside from that he defended his title 3 or 4 times, and has a solid KO 1 win over Andrew Golota which is better than anything Fury has done.

Ruslan Chagaev beat Nicolay Valuev convincingly, and has a solid record, but if you wanted to flip him around with Brewster on my list I wouldn't argue with you.

They both did more than Fury has done. Fury is still young, and can still add to his legacy. As of this moment, he ain't got much of one.

While I respect your points, I do-not-believe Brewster stopped "a better Wladimir Klitschko". I believe he stopped a younger Klitschko, but as a long reigning heavyweight champion who had dominated the division for almost a decade, I believe Fury check-mated a Klitschko with far superior experience and stern, much-improved self belief.

The Klitschko that fought Brewster was aggressive, attacking and did more damage to Brewster in 1 round than he did to Fury in 12. He didn't even fight against Fury, he just looked at him for 12 rounds.

Because Fury reduced Wlad to fistic impotence.

[gilgamesh]

While I respect your points, I do-not-believe Brewster stopped "a better Wladimir Klitschko". I believe he stopped a younger Klitschko, but as a long reigning heavyweight champion who had dominated the division for almost a decade, I believe Fury check-mated a Klitschko with far superior experience and stern, much-improved self belief.

The Klitschko that fought Brewster was aggressive, attacking and did more damage to Brewster in 1 round than he did to Fury in 12. He didn't even fight against Fury, he just looked at him for 12 rounds.

Because Fury reduced Wlad to fistic impotence.

Fury did nothing, but be in the ring the night that Wladimir decided staring was the way to defend the title. I wasn't impressed by Fury's performance in that fight, nor will I ever be.

[Ambling Alp II]

A great fighter with any power would have stopped him by the mid-rounds.

[Kalan]

The Klitschko that fought Brewster was aggressive, attacking and did more damage to Brewster in 1 round than he did to Fury in 12. He didn't even fight against Fury, he just looked at him for 12 rounds.

Because Fury reduced Wlad to fistic impotence.

Fury did nothing, but be in the ring the night that Wladimir decided staring was the way to defend the title. I wasn't impressed by Fury's performance in that fight, nor will I ever be

Fury isn't a good athlete... He's got "big and tall man syndrome" where 999 out of 1000 guys 6'9" and taller appear slow and ungainly vs an outstanding athlete who's 6' to 6'6" ... It's the elephant vs the ant analysis ... If, for their size, elephants could move with the speed, maneuverability, and agility of ants we'd all be in trouble if we went on a safari... In a flash 16 elephants would run off with the entire caravan, stuff you into a cave, and zoom out looking for a herd of baboons to snatch – or anybody else who’s a rival for vegetation... It's nature's way of evening things up a bit.

I’d say Fury is maybe the pick of 20 guys his size. Certainly not the cream of the crop or he’d be playing basketball.. He can’t run.. His arms are soft and he has no definition or strength. He doesn’t have a shred of discipline or work ethic. He’s worse than Buster Douglas so you can’t respect him .... LOOK at him, he’s a wreck.

It’s weird, but when he was in half-assed shape he’s a natural boxer. He’s got fistic instincts and slips and ducks punches well. He’s got pretty good eyes apparently. He’s got natural timing. He’s not as cloddish or slow thinking as Julius long, Tye Fields, or David Price. He had everything plus talent from day one and he never had the slightest appreciation for his good fortune. He had trainers around him and people who know the game guided his amateur career.

He turned pro as was very successful. He threw at least 20 million dollars to the wind by not answering the first bell for the Klitschko rematch. Buster Douglas set himself up for life (25MM) by answering the first bell in the Holyfield fight... Fury says he HATES Boxing... How can you hate something that has a money spigot attached to it – and that you have the natural born talent to do well at if you applied yourself???? Makes no sense. He hates himself.

I can’t think of anybody more stupid than Fury.... He may have mental illness but take some responsibility.

[BoxBuzz]

With all that going for him in the "natural boxer" area....ya gotta wonder just how long it would take a full size pugilist like Tyson Fury to pummel "Chamberlain the WILT" straight to Oblivia? (A very underestimated somewhat obscure south american country which Mike Tyson has referred to on occasion).