Rocky Marciano:The Greatest

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HomicideHenry
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Rocky Marciano:The Greatest

Post by HomicideHenry »

The more and more I research Marciano, the more and more I become convinced that Marciano could have beaten most anybody he could have been put up against.

First off his kayo ratio was 88%, that is higher overall than Foreman, Louis, Baer, Dempsey, Liston, Frazier and Jefferies could obtain.

It was once recorded that Marciano's punching prowess was, as so, according to the U.S. Testing Company:

"Marciano's knockout blow packs more explosive energy than an armor-piercing bullet...that represents as much energy required to spot lift 1,000 pounds one foot off the ground."

Marciano was well-noted for his 300+ pound punching bag that he worked with. He wanted his power to be so great that he could knock 200+ pound men around the ring. Marciano trained in the ways of an old-bareknuckle fighter, he actually had the endurance to go 45 rounds if he wanted.

Say whatever you like, that Marciano was so much smaller than even the heavyweights of his own era, but statistics don't lie. Considering Marciano's KO ratio only got even better AFTER he was champion.

Look at what some of his KO victims had to say:

Joe Louis- "It hurt to bump into him, he hits harder than Schmeling, this kid is tough enough to beat anyone."

Joe Walcott- "Joe (Louis) could take you out with a combination...Marciano was a one-punch artist. He threw every punch like you throw a baseball, as hard as he could. I have to say, with all respect to joe, Marciano hit harder."

Considering that even back in his amatuer days, a man named Bob Girard who beat Marciano by 3 round decision:

"How do you think I beat Rocky? I beat him because it went three rounds. There were a hundred guys who might have stayed 3 rounds with the Rock. But no man in the world was gonna beat Rocky in fifteen rounds; not Dempsey, not Ali, not anybody. I knew he was going to be the champ. I don't think anybody could hurt Rocky. Every time he hit you, you saw a flash of light. You either grabbed him or you moved back, because if he hit you twice you're gone."

Marciano was once quoted: "Why waltz 10 rounds with an opponent, if you can knock him out in one?"

But never once did Marciano ever give predictions or boast and brag of his victories. The closest thing any reporter could ever get out of him was a simple "I can only try to win".

When he retired in 1956 the Heavyweight division was in an uproar, and totally shocked that the Blockbuster had left so suddenly. Some argue he had no more opponents left to fight, others say a bad back, but possibly the most likely answer was his manager Al Weil who took more than his share of Marciano's winnings.

As far as the argument goes for lack of opponents, he was in the process of facing #1 contender Nino Valdes, and had also sparred with such men as Tommy "Hurricane" Jackson, also a top ten contender---where it was once said Marciano hit Jackson so hard with a body shot Jackson vomited all over the ring.

There was offers from Floyd Patterson and Sonny Liston to urge Marciano out of retirement, but Marciano declined, as there was not enough money involved. He did almost come out of retirement to face Ingemar Johanson, who had defeated Patterson---with a contract written up that if Ingo could defeat Patterson in their rematch, Marciano would get first crack at Ingo's title.

Of course Ingo lost to Patterson, so the fight never evolved. Marciano did agree though to return to the ring in 1969, this time against another undefeated champion like himself, Muhammad Ali.

Murray Woroner was a promoter in Florida, and came up with the idea of computer fights---but since graphics were no good, Woroner could only imagine that he would pair off both Ali and Marciano in a ring.

Marciano trained extremely hard, as hard as he ever did for any fight before, and lost over 50 pounds and donned a wig so he would have the appearance of being the fighter he was. He was 45 years old and been almost 15yrs retired.

Marciano was told that all headshots were to be pulled, but both Ali and Marciano said body shots were fair game. Marciano came into the gym for that whole week of filming with the mind set, that if Ali wanted to hit him hard, Marciano knew he was in good enough shape to make a true fight of it and beat Ali.

Of course, everything was fine, up until one of the last few days of shooting. As the story goes, by Ferdie Pacheco and Murray Woroner and Angelo Dundee, Ali jabbed and knocked Marciano's hair piece off. The Rock was understandably embarassed and believed Ali was doing it on purpose. Ali knocked off his wig again and Marciano told him out right "DONT DO THAT AGAIN".

Ali knocks the hair piece off again, and without hesitation Marciano slams a body shot into Ali's gut and not only makes Ali double over but drops him to the canvas, supposedly after that had happened, Marciano offered a challenge right there and then, that if Ali was game they would have a legit bout right then and there.

Woroner claims that Ali was so badly hurt that he asked for additional money to continue the process of the film, else he would not do it. Ali of course apologised to Marciano, and the for the rest of the shoots Ali never dared to make Marciano mad.

Ali would later say that Marciano was alot harder to hit with a jab than he would have thought and that Marciano's body punching, even at 45yrs old, was astonishing. And of course that, he truly respected Marciano and never been so close to a white fighter ever.

The film came out in over 600 locations across America, and the ending was Marciano knocking out Ali in the 13th round, much like he did to Joe Walcott. Marciano died before ever seeing the film in a fatal air plane crash.

Everyone from Jack Dempsey to Bert Sugar, to Marciano's own KO victims, have said that Marciano was undoubtedly the most dangerous and hardest punching champion---if not the most ferocious and toughest of all.

In this modern day of giant heavyweights, there is no doubt in my mind, despite Marciano only being 5'10" and 185 pounds with a 69" reach, that he would stop many of the big men, if not be Heavyweight champion all over again.

My own personal bet, put Marciano in any era, and undoubtedly he would be in the top 5 contenders, if not champion.

His defense is under-rated, he was far more harder to hit than people think, he was hell with both hands, had a chin of steel, and a heart and iron will that broke all molds. Sure there were flaws in his style, but Marciano could take a few and really he could end a fight or turn a fight over at any time...all he needed was just one clean solid shot.

I rank Marciano #1 with Jack Johnson, as the greatest Heavyweight champion of all time. Why? He dodged the lower ranks and beat the top men to become champion, and stayed champion beating the absoloute best of his era, his KO percentage increased in his championship reign, rather than most fighters whose KO percentage drops after becoming champion---and hell, Fighter of The Year 3x's and well as holding fight of the Year a few times, and as well as being one of the most legendary names in all sports, not just boxing---not many can beat that. And he didnt do it with showmanship and flare like Ali or even with skill---he did it all with the power of the human spirit and the ability of take a few and give much more. He over came a late start, small size, and at first a very clumsy and sloppy style, to become the king of the ring.

Oh and...he did retire undefeated. :TU:

My Predictions of Marciano vs The Greats:

Marciano vs Dempsey- 12th round KO win over Dempsey in a violent and bloody battle

Marciano vs Ali- I think the computer fight did it accurate in alot of respects, but I think myself it would have been a KO in around the 15th

Marciano vs Frazier- KO win inside of 12 rounds, Frazier had a similar style, but he only had a left and couldnt take a punch as well as Marciano, plus Marciano threw in combinations greater than Frazier and hit harder

Marciano vs Louis- KO in 13th Prime Louis would have lasted longer, but throughout his career he had an iffy chin, and even Louis and Walcott said Marciano was a greater puncher in terms of power.

Marciano vs Roy Jones- Yeah I know Jones is back down to Light Heavyweight, but he did win the WBA belt (whatever its worth) and if Ruiz could knock Jones across the ring...imagine what Marciano could have done...KO inside of 5 rounds.

I would go on and on, but its getting late. Btw I was wondering if this Marciano rumor was true.

I had once heard that Marciano's body was examined by doctors after his death and they discovered his skull was 2" (inch thicker compared to a normal man), and that was why he could take a punch so well. Is this true?
BrocktonBlockbuster49
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Post by BrocktonBlockbuster49 »

aw man not another thread like this.


here are the men i pick to beat rocky:


jack johnson
joe louis
muhammad ali
george foreman
mike tyson

here are the toss ups

sonny liston
larry holmes
jack dempsey



as for who is the greatest, the answer is joe louis
HomicideHenry
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Post by HomicideHenry »

I disgaree in some aspects.

Foreman was more a slugger, Marciano was a swarmer. If Foreman was a swarmer he would have been double deadly, plus Marciano hit harder than Foreman or at least was on the same level---Marciano KO'd more Hall of Famers the Foreman did. Marciano beat men from the inside out, he would take a few, Marciano had stamina and endurance a prime Foreman did not---as Ali proved in Zaire. If Ali could take Foreman's punches, no doubt in my mind the Brockton Blockbuster could have too.

Joe Louis, again he had an iffy chin. Besides Louis threw knockouts in combinations, he needed three or four punches to get the job done, Marciano had the ability to throw one and it be over. Even Louis said Marciano was hardest punching man he ever met, and said Marciano could beat ANYONE. Prime Joe Louis would have lasted long time and given Marciano alot of problems, but in the end if Louis was dropped by Tony Galento, Buddy Baer and few other men, who didnt even have the power or the skills of Marciano---well, I think you get the idea.

Tyson was alot like Dempsey, he was a swarmer, but Tyson had a weak psyche, he grew frustrated and made alot of mistakes when he couldnt put away his opponent. Tyson also was more of a head hunter after he lost his title, besides Tyson fought in an era where there was no good Heavyweights out there---no wonder with his tyle he dominated the division---Tyson in my mind is over-rated. It be a hard fight for Rocky cus Tyson could punch hard and fast and had the head bobbings and weaving---but Marciano was no Trevor Berbick or no Tony Tubbs.

Ali could be compared to Ezzard Charles, and myself I think it would be the same outcome. If Frazier went the distance with Ali three times winning one out of the three---and Marciano is better than Frazier, it would be the other way around where Marciano would win two out of the three, if him and Ali fought in a trilogy.

Johnson had skills and could slug with the best of them, he was eons ahead of his time, but look at the source of his opponents during his championship reign---a washed up Jefferies who had to lose a hundred pounds with no tune ups, a series of white hopes who even the 1980's Heavyweights could have beaten---and sure Johnson did fair well against the blacks of his era---but let's face it---Marciano and Johnson be almost all but evenly matched. Marciano beat fast fighters and beat the best sluggers---as did Johnson. Johnson could go over 20 rounds, and Marciano was conditioned to go that many as well. It would be a toss up.

Liston? He had a great jab, and great power---but his psyche too was weak. He had alot of flaws, and never really had a man come toward him and fight him and brawl with him---most his opponents were scared before they went in the ring with Liston. He had a questionable chin as well, Leotis Martin knocked him out and Martin isnt anywhere near Marciano's power. Like I said, all it takes is one punch to turn it around.

Holmes? He prolly could have beaten Marciano----but then again Holms couldnt do nothing with Tyson, and Marciano fought that same style, and he sure as hell could take better punch than Tyson, so there be less fear. I agree that would be a toss up.

Dempsey...well I already explained that, but I'll go even further. Dempsey was a swarmer and hard puncher and fast---but he didnt hit as hard as Marciano, most times when Dempsey hit someone they got up and Dempsey had to knock em down again and again---plus Dempsey was knocked down by Luis Firpo and Tunney and few others. Dempsey could take a helluva punch, and myself it would be the greatest match of all time if it could ever happen---but in the end I see Marciano winning, cus he had a little bit extra.
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Post by BrocktonBlockbuster49 »

lets just leave it at marciano WAS NOT the greatest. he was beatable, and there are heavyweights in history who would beat him. this is coming from the biggest marciano nuthugger on boxrec.


the greatest is joe louis


i spoke with peter marciano. he told me rocky always told him personally that joe louis was the greatest of all time.
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Post by HomicideHenry »

Maybe the whole "Joe Louis was the greatest" thing came from how Marciano really looked up to Joe and didn't wanna hurt his idol but he did.

I mean even the "old" Joe Louis I would consider almost the 1990's version of George Foreman. Louis was ranked #1 in the world at the time and Marciano beat him, old Louis or not.

Jack Dempsey even said he believed that Marciano was the greatest puncher to hold the crown, in terms of power.

Marciano beatable? Yes. But nobody could do it could they? Charles was the greatest Light Heavyweight ever and even when he faced Marciano he could easily even in that state of his career beat most champions in most eras.

Marciano only needed one single punch to turn a fight around. As far as you being the biggest Marciano "nut hugger"....I disagree lol I am.

****************************************************

Btw I looked up the Cooley Wallace Marciano amatuer bout, and from wat I read Marciano lost by a very controversial decision, and it was so booed that people from the crowd threw beer bottles into the ring.
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Post by BrocktonBlockbuster49 »

i watched colley wallace-ezzar charles bout the other day, and colley impressed me. he looks good on film. the press doesnt lie, he really does fight like joe louis. at times i thought it was joe louis out there.


wallace is the defintion of a poor mans joe louis
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Post by HomicideHenry »

Here is some stuff on the Marciano-Wallace fight:

Wallace was 17-0 (17) when he faced Marciano (amateur record).
Was for the Golden Gloves East-Coast Championship.

Marciano was the aggressor throughout the fight, and landed all the punishing blows, but the judges ruled in favor of Wallace. The fans booed and threw botlles and programs into the ring. Rocky would always say he was cheated in that fight, and would determine to take the matter out of the hands of the judges by knocking out future opponents.

Marciano on the whole only had 12 amateur fights, plus the lone pro fight he had as "Rocky Mack" which he won, but went back into the amatuers.

http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Aren ... cky22.html

The website is pretty good I thought.
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Post by Crease »

IrishRufusMurphy...

I see that we're both Irish and both have the same mind-set I couldn't agree more with your original post. But let's not get carried away,
Joe Louis was an amazing boxer for his knowledge of punching,
Ali's speed and quickness could've really tested Marciano.
George Foreman is the hardest puncher (I think)...

These are the only 3 fighters I could see having the closest chance of defeating Marciano.

Against other sluggers... Dempsey, Frazier and Tyson

Dempsey.
Well Jack did lose to Tunney, and I would rate Tunney on the same level as Walcott and Charles. Plus, Marciano punched harder and had the endurance to go 15 rounds, (whereas Dempsey usually went 10).

Frazier.
Frazier relied on his knockout punch, the big left hook. But Marciano had a left hook to rival that, and an even more destructive right straight, which is labelled "Suzy Q". Plus, Marciano had a slightly better chin, (see Foreman 1).

Tyson.
"Iron Mike" was a great puncher, but again Marciano hit harder. Tyson often lost heart after being floored and Marciano would floor him, Rocky could sustain that pressure for 15 rounds...Goodnight Mike.

Foreman.
This would be Rocky's hardest ever fight. But, I don't think Marciano could hit as hard as Foreman, (just below his punching power) in my opinion, buit Marciano had the legs to go 15 rounds..Foreman could go 6 rounds, plus, Marcinao could take punches better, (see Ali-Foreman).


Lewis & Holmes
Both opf these fighters wouldn't stand a chance against Rocky, they'd just use their reach and stiff jab to keep Marcinao away, but if Rocky gets in...BOOM..fights over, I'm away for a beer.


AS FOR THE HARD FIGHTS... ALI + LOUIS.

Marciano puched harder than Frazier
Had a better chin than Frazier
More durbale than Frazier

Yes, if Frazier could have Ali in that state in 10 rounds... Marcinao could do worse to him!!!!

Against Joe Louis, the fight would last longer...But I forsee the same outcome..Marcinao KO.

BUT BOTH ALI AND LOUIS STAND A VERY GOOD CHANCE OF UPSETTING THE TRUE GREATEST...ROCKY MARCIANO..
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Post by BoxBuzz »

Hey Irish Murphy.....You do know that the computer used to map out the fight between The Rock and The Greatest was of such grand and amazing power that the AVERAGE chess player could beat it 10 out of 10 times?

Not sure that really gains Rocky any credibility on that score. But it has added to his luster. I like Rocky just fine, but that "0" of his gives him bragging rights just a bit beyond his pay grade, to my way of thinking.
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Post by BrocktonBlockbuster49 »

rocky was not the greatest. he had too many flaws and had flaws in his career that prevent him from being # 1.

i think louis and ali are the clear top 2
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Post by HomicideHenry »

You want to talk about flaws?

ffs Ali didn't even fight right, he kept his hands way too low and ran backwards away from his opponents rather than slip jabs---no wonder he won alot of the times cus everybody had to chase him, its BOXING not a fornicating race.

Louis carried his hands too low in his early career and after he lost to Schmeling he always kept them up---the man had pretty good defense and could throw fast combinations---but let's get serious he was a stalker and a plodder, relatively had no speed in him at all---plus he was dropped by Tony Galento, Buddy Baer---hell he was losing to Conn until the Irishman got the idea in his head he could drop Louis, and Conn was prolly only 170 pounds.

Louis beat mostly nothing but bums, and ex-faded champions, the only guys he ever faced who were in their prime or near it was Marciano, Charles and Walcott, who actually was worth a damn.

Perfect fighting machine? No. If he truly was the all-time greatest, Louis would have never lost. In fact, if anybody was the greatest fighter in the world, he/she would have to never be beaten, beating the best, and winning a fight convincingly.

But no...he lost to an old Max Schmeling, lost to Charles and Marciano, and should of lost to Walcott but got a gift decision. He was by no means a perfect fighter.

I'm not saying Marciano is a perfect fighter, cus his style wasn't the best, but he did beat the best of his time, he could have easily went 50-0 cus there was nobody really left, undefeated.

Not many have ever came close in the Heavyweight division to that, Ali was the fastest in my opinion but not the greatest.

Marciano in my opinion will always be the one future champions will be measured...they may beat records of others, but nobody came close (exception Larry Holmes was 48-0 before losing to Spinks).

And look at it this way, there has been no dominant white heavyweight, let alone a white champion worth his salt, since Marciano retired in 1956. That is over 50yrs ago...and nobody has done it yet so far.
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Post by BoxBuzz »

Most obvious list of unlikely victims of the Rock

Ali
Louis (Prime)
Johnson
Foreman
Holmes
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