Prime Riddick Bowe vs. a Prime Lennox Lewis? ------

[BoxBuzz]

Let's go over this again......Ali was fine with it........Chamberlain wilted.

Did not sign the fight, did not sign ANY fight, did not fight ANY champion...Did not fight ANY contender....or even one single hot dog vendor....
inside the squared circle....

.he did poleax sucker punch a competing basketball player who pissed him off.....and just like The Alien Grant....that fella that was poleaxed by WILT, folded like an accordion...... But one can not base an entire boxing career on one blind siding of an opponent......in fact it got Grant's opponent locked up. Which is probably what should have happened to Wilt.

1. for impersonating a pugilist, and
2. for blindsiding an innocent, with the ONE PUNCH that he threw within a professional sporting event...... in his entire life.


Now get yourself a nice cup of Arizona Stress tea, and just take a deep breath, and enjoy the magnificent ambience of Coastal California.....your home sweet home, and the land of Flakes and Nuts.

[bigjack]

If Bowe didn't chicken out of the potential 1993 fight, he would have beaten Lewis as Lewis was quite reckless & over reliant on his big Right hand.

Bowe was much more accomplished in '93 than Lewis was, with a much better skillset & far superior in-fighting.

If the two of them met when both were in their primes, I'd take Lewis on points.

Bowe would have given him hell, but I think psychology would have played a big part in that Bowe was obviously very wary of Lewis as it was & that might have caused him to freeze a bit.

This,their peaks were at very different stages,Lewis matured late and became a complete fighter,whereas Bowe faded badly.

[Kalan]

Let's go over this again......Ali was fine with it ......

[Chamberlain] Did not sign the fight, did not sign ANY fight, did not fight ANY champion...Did not fight ANY contender....or even one single hot dog vendor ..... Coastal California.....your home sweet home, and the land of Flakes and Nuts

Stop making the world's dumbest insults... You're a flake and a nut if there ever was one. Ali was fine with not fighting... Chamberlain wasn't... He's the guy pushing Ali to sign the contract....not vice versa.

You make ZERO sense... Nobody's going to promote a fight between Chamberlain and a Hot Dog Vendor

Your intelligence is so limited that you don't understand that Wilt can't make money fighting the non-famous... NOBODY would be impressed... But they WOULD be impressed AND Chamberlain WOULD make a multi-million dollar payday by smashing Ali unconscious with a right hand, after spearing him a few dozen times with the rangiest jab driving the biggest fist in Boxing or the NBA... Ali didn't want that to happen so he backtracked on the fight like CRAZY.

You NEVER bother to explain Ali's comments... "I Accept your challenge AFTER I fight a few more Contenders IF I beat them." As the video opens you hear Chamberlain's lawyer say "I have a signed contract (Wilt signed) this fight is going to happen." And you see Chamberlain produce a pen saying "I can't get you to sign on the line" ..... And Wilt wants to know "how long" it's going to take Ali to sign the contract..

Is THAT a reasonable question to ask if you want to fight??? You hear Ali say "Hold your pen... Don't rush things. I'll take it easy, just be cool." and the dead serious and frustrated Chamberlain says "But you can't tell me how long can you."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

I want you to answer 3 questions BuzzBox... 1. Why is Ali promoting the Chamberlain-Ali Fight if he wants to fight a few more contenders first??? 2. Why is Ali telling Chamberlain to hold his pen and not rush things if Ali really wants to fight??? 3. Is it reasonable for Chamberlain to ask how long it's going to take for Ali to sign the contract -- or is that an unreasonable question??? .... I await your answers because it's obvious Ali got cold feet and wouldn't sign.

[BoxBuzz]

Ali was fine with the fight.....you know it and I know it.....stop pretending to be dumb.....and if your not pretending then wise up.

Had to do with what managers wanted.......And honestly in the end it was Wilt that Wilted.

Every hot dog vendor in the world would give a truck load of Nathan's to fight the champion if they could get him to sign.....
as you say....lots of money to be made by ANYONE who would step in the ring with Ali. Wilt was a very tall hot dog vendor, that ended up with second thoughts. Or at least his dad, and those that loved him thought he'd have a better shot at a good life, if he just kept eating/selling hot dogs for a lifetime vs stepping into the ring with Ali for even one round.

I do know this.....you believe what you say.....but in this case...I also know you are very wrong.

[Kalan]

BuzzBox you don't have to pretend to be dumb.... You are.... You're one of the least insightful people on the planet... All you do is lie and evade my legitimate questions... Chamberlain wasn't a hot dog vendor dumbkoff... He was a 2 sport HOFer, the greatest individual athlete in Sports History, and a man who directly challenged Ali for the Heavyweight Championship in a sports event that would have broken all existing record for viewership -- and Chamberlain had a right to challenge Ali because of his stature as an all-around athlete....

Great trainer Cus D'Amato backed Chamberlain 100%... He said he was certain to KO Ali... D'Amato is the same man who discovered Floyd Patterson and Mike Tyson... They won the Heavyweight Championship at ages 21 and 20 respectively, by following D'Amato's guide lines... D'Amato, being a unmatched judge of fighting flesh, tabbed Ali the perfect opponent for Chamberlain because of Ali's lack of a body attack and inside game -- and his bad habit of leaning back from punches which frequently got him nailed hard... When Ali found out that Chamberlain had D'Amato and others lined up to help him train for the fight, he knew Wilt was deadly serious about rendering Ali unconscious and raking in millions.

Ali got cold feet, but he had verbally agreed to the contract stipulations... He had agreed to do the TV promotional appearances... He simply refused to legally obligate himself by not signing the contract... He started pretending there was no rush... Said he wanted to fight a "few more contenders IF I beat them" before fighting Chamberlain.. Everyone knew there was more interest and money in the Chamberlain fight than if Ali fought a dozen contenders -- and WTF was Ali doing promoting a fight with Chamberlain that he didn't want to sign for??? It made no sense at all...

Here's Ali fudging his ass off --https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

I still want you to answer 3 questions BuzzBox... 1. Why is Ali promoting the Chamberlain-Ali Fight if he wants to fight a few more contenders first??? 2. Why is Ali telling Chamberlain to hold his pen and not rush things if Ali really wants to fight??? 3. Is it reasonable for Chamberlain to ask how long it's going to take for Ali to sign the contract -- or is that an unreasonable question??? .... I await your answers because it's obvious Ali got cold feet and wouldn't sign.

[MrGuy]

Or however based on FACTS they might be ..... instead of MYTHS

The FACT is both Ali and Chamberlain hired teams of lawyers who painstakingly negotiated a contract to FIGHT that allowed Chamberlain to be train in Boxing for an entire NBA Basketball off season (six moths).... Chamberlain signed that contract but Ali never would sign the contract out of fear... Ali appeared with Chamberlain on TV shows promoting their coming fight....but refused to sign the contract to fight Chamberlain....

Through all his bluster, Ali was as scared to death of Chamberlain as Floyd Patterson was of Sonny Liston.... Patterson spared with Wilt and jokingly said, "If Wilt quits Basketball to become a boxer, I ain't fighting him... I'll go play basketball."

Rather than sign the contract Ali said mealy mouthed things like this to Chamberlain: "I accept your challenge, after I fight a few more contenders, IF I beat them." and "Don't rush things. Hold you pen." Those statements are made in this video, where a thoroughly frustrated Chamberlain wants to know "How Long" its going to take for Ali to sign the contract.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

There's no need to repeat chapter & verse about this.

You've told us all about the Ali/Chamberlain situation in great detail many times previously.

This has only been brought up because you were questioning why folk would tip Bowe to beat the likes of Morrison, Tua & Ruddock, having never fought them, yet you yourself must have predicted that Boxer A would be victorious against Boxer B had they ever fought.

You even predicted that a basketball player who had never boxed in his life would defeat one of the greatest HW boxers ever, when that said boxer was close to his prime; an opinion I myself happen to think is crazy, but I would never take away your right to hold that opinion because opinions are not facts, they're just opinions.

The fact that Wilt would have smashed Ali's lights out is not an opinion I hold without justification... Wilt challenged Ali and signed the contract... Ali wouldn't even give anybody a clue as to WHEN he would sign the contract.... Ali was scared to death of Wilt. You SAW what happens to boxers who are scared out of their wits in the Liston-Patterson.... Tyson-Spinks.... and Foreman-Frazier fights... I don't see any possible way Ali could win that fight against such a superior athlete... and that's the reason Ali kept making excuses for not signing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

And Riddick Bowe's chicken ass never signed to fight ANY big puncher.... His chicken behind was scared of anybody who could hit -- mainly: Lewis, Mercer, McCall, Ruddock, Tyson, and Tua... Morrison wasn't that good a hitter in my view, but that fight never happened either... However Morrison might not have even beaten Golota. That would be an even fight.

At least Morrison fought Lewis, Mercer, and Ruddock... He wasn't very good but he wasn't a coward.

Anybody who dumps their belt in a garbage can rather than fight is a coward.

Mercer and McCall weren't noted for their power. McCall starched Lewis and with his mediocre ko rate gets made out to be Shavers. Tyson making his comeback wasn't nearly the puncher he was before.

[Evander]

Definitely a risk for Lennox Lewis but I was that confident Lennox Lewis would knock Bowe out wherever it took place.

[MrGuy]

Mercer and McCall weren't noted for their power. McCall starched Lewis and with his mediocre ko rate gets made out to be Shavers. Tyson msking his comeback wasn't nearly the puncher he was before.

You are without doubt giving kolon a good run for the most nonsensical posts on the board. Any " decent " not necessarily " devastating " puncher who weighs 230 + can knock anyone over unless that person has a cast iron chin ( which ironically enough McCall did have ) so yet again your pathetic examples to justify your Lewis hatred fall down the sewer.

Anyone remotely connected with the fight game will tell you the last thing a fighter loses is his punch, so your apologist excuses for your nonce case hero also go down the sewer. His power didn't diminish at all. his myth was exposed and everytime he didn't come up against all the junkies, drunks, weirdo's bums, and cranks that he fed upon both before Buster slaughtered him, and after his youth offenders term, further exposed it. Guys who he couldn't intimidate even if he was carrying a bat, like Holyfield, Lewis, Williams and McBride.

If it wasn't your time of the month, maybe you wouldn't have become hysterical and read the whole thing. He claimed McCall and Mercer were big punchers. They weren't. Yes anyone over 230 can knock anyone out. Doesn't mean they have great power. Sorry he's not my hero. The punch is the last to go. His punch was also dependent on his speed and form. He lost both well before Lewis. You think almost two decades in he hit as hard? Laughable.

[Cojimar 1946]

I don't see the relevance in the Lewis, McBride, and Williams fights. Plenty of other fighters suffered humiliating defeats towards the ends of their careers and it seems silly to even bring them up. Are we judging Holyfield by the Toney debacle and Sherman Williams fight?

[MrGuy]

You are without doubt giving kolon a good run for the most nonsensical posts on the board. Any " decent " not necessarily " devastating " puncher who weighs 230 + can knock anyone over unless that person has a cast iron chin ( which ironically enough McCall did have ) so yet again your pathetic examples to justify your Lewis hatred fall down the sewer.

Anyone remotely connected with the fight game will tell you the last thing a fighter loses is his punch, so your apologist excuses for your nonce case hero also go down the sewer. His power didn't diminish at all. his myth was exposed and everytime he didn't come up against all the junkies, drunks, weirdo's bums, and cranks that he fed upon both before Buster slaughtered him, and after his youth offenders term, further exposed it. Guys who he couldn't intimidate even if he was carrying a bat, like Holyfield, Lewis, Williams and McBride.

If it wasn't your time of the month, maybe you wouldn't have become hysterical and read the whole thing. He claimed McCall and Mercer were big punchers. They weren't. Yes anyone over 230 can knock anyone out. Doesn't mean they have great power. Sorry he's not my hero. The punch is the last to go. His punch was also dependent on his speed and form. He lost both well before Lewis.

You think almost two decades in he hit as hard? Laughable.

Of course he did you inbred moronic fool.

Which is why when he did connect with the 30 lbs heavier Williams less than a minute before Danny decided to take the vermin out, he made him stand up like a telegraph pole.

I care even less for your empathising lowlife opinions on child molesting / rapist loving / other sex beast, scum, slime and filth like Tyson. Its inability to throw punches like it did in its prime has less than FUK ALL to do with any reduction in its power after being released from its NONCING.

He wasn't near the puncher he once was. In other words you know McCall wasn't a huge puncher. But want to portray him Shavers like to excuse Lewis being ko'd.

[Boxing Writer]

If it wasn't your time of the month, maybe you wouldn't have become hysterical and read the whole thing. He claimed McCall and Mercer were big punchers. They weren't. Yes anyone over 230 can knock anyone out. Doesn't mean they have great power. Sorry he's not my hero. The punch is the last to go. His punch was also dependent on his speed and form. He lost both well before Lewis.

Of course he did you inbred moronic fool.

Which is why when he did connect with the 30 lbs heavier Williams less than a minute before Danny decided to take the vermin out, he made him stand up like a telegraph pole.

I care even less for your empathising lowlife opinions on child molesting / rapist loving / other sex beast, scum, slime and filth like Tyson. Its inability to throw punches like it did in its prime has less than FUK ALL to do with any reduction in its power after being released from its NONCING.

He wasn't near the puncher he once was. In other words you know McCall wasn't a huge puncher. But want to portray him Shavers like to excuse Lewis being ko'd.

For me Tyson looked like he lost some power only in McBride fight. He couldn't hurt McBride who was KO'ed by Axel Schulz and Martin Murray. But before that his power looked great. Look, he knocked out Botha with a single punch, while others huge punchers Lewis and Wlad put Botha down with combinations and he still got up before '10' count against both of them. He also knocked down Lou Savarese with the first punch he landed. KO'ed Ettienne in 49 seconds (although it has to be said Ettienne has a glass jaw). He barely touched Lewis, but in the fight against Danny Williams he hurt Danny badly in the first round. Of course, post-Holyfield Tyson had awful stamina and he was slower than he was in his prime, but he was still a very hard puncher.

As for McCall, yes, he wasn't a huge puncher. But he had respectable power. 37 KO wins in 73 fights doesn't look great, but KO% might be deceptive. Tony Tucker and Zelko Mavrovic had great KO% but neither of them was a huge puncher, not even close. I think McCall hit way harder than each of them. He knocked out Oleg Maskaev (who was novice but still) with a single punch and also KTFOed Henry Akinwande with a single punch.

[MrGuy]

He wasn't near the puncher he once was. In other words you know McCall wasn't a huge puncher. But want to portray him Shavers like to excuse Lewis being ko'd.

For the benefit of like minded idiots, would you like to tell them EXACTLY when it was that Tyson " couldn't " punch as hard as he did when he was knocking over all those ( cans I think was the word you entered into the discussion ) as I am sure they would be highly interested? When did his punches become so weak, any Heavyweight could just ignore them?

If you think he hit as hard almost 20 years in your fooling yourself. I said his speed and technique played a part also. I know it doesn't fit your narrative he was at his destructive best. Face it. Lewis fought a shot guy who lacked speed and technique.

[MrGuy]

For the benefit of like minded idiots, would you like to tell them EXACTLY when it was that Tyson " couldn't " punch as hard as he did when he was knocking over all those ( cans I think was the word you entered into the discussion ) as I am sure they would be highly interested? When did his punches become so weak, any Heavyweight could just ignore them?

If you think he hit as hard almost 20 years in your fooling yourself. I said his speed and technique played a part also. I know it doesn't fit your narrative he was at his destructive best. Face it. Lewis fought a shot guy who lacked speed and technique.

You wriggle and squirm worse than a stuck pig. Again your exact words were.

Tyson msking his comeback wasn't nearly the puncher he was before.

I couldn't care shite about his loss of speed or technique you cry baby fool. He punched just as hard as he ever did, as do the vast majority of fighters.

His speed and technique were key to his power. Loss of that meant he didn't connect as much, or as hard. If you dont think technique factors into power, pick up a beginners book.

[MrGuy]

You wriggle and squirm worse than a stuck pig. Again your exact words were.

Tyson msking his comeback wasn't nearly the puncher he was before.

I couldn't care shite about his loss of speed or technique you cry baby fool. He punched just as hard as he ever did, as do the vast majority of fighters.

His speed and technique were key to his power. Loss of that meant he didn't connect as much, or as hard. If you dont think technique factors into power, pick up a beginners book.

Crawl back under your stone you fool. Tyson lost no power from the beginning of his career until the end of it, and anyone apart from brainless goons is perfectly aware of it. Your pathetic excuses for his inability to handle pressure are just as boring, childish in a girly way, and more importantly fukkin imbecilic as all the other cretins who can't handle seeing someone they idolised destroyed.

The level of idiocy which created this indestructible murderous Tyson is unbelievable. It was no different to a " guy " walking into the school playground and beating up the kids, until a teacher comes out ( Douglas ) and batters him. The " guy " being a fukkin idiot keeps coming back beating more kids until in the end they send out the P.E. guys, ( Holyfield, or Lewis ) and they really give it to the idiot, because it is too thick to learn, and needs to be destroyed.

Your moronic claim might have made sense if Tyson had needed to wear those kids ( Botha, Norris, Francis, Savarese, Golota, Nielsen, and Etienne ) down to beat them.

Save you breath giving your opinions of them, as I couldn't care less. Fact is if it couldn't still punch it couldn't have stopped them could it?

Speed and technique factored in on his power. Most acknowledge he lost those. Most of the guys you named are barely a step up from club fighters. Go buy that book.