Errol Spence Jr. ? P4P Best and It's Not Close.

[caldo2025]

Now i'm not one of those A+B=C so that means C must equal A kinds of guys but did you see the beating that this kid put on Lamont?

Sure, it was impressive, but it's not like it's something Matthyse didn't do year ago is it?

That fight with Matthysse was from 2013 or am I that drunk? Could be i'm that drunk. Matthysse also struggled to get by John Molina which I almost couldn't finish typing because i'm laughing too hard. Can you imagine what Spence Jr. would do to either of those guys? Come on. We're comparing pizza to english muffins with tomatoes and cheese here.

[Counter-puncher]

I'm just saying, FFS way to get the wrong end, here we go nice and slow for you:

Yeah Spence killed Peterson

But so did Matthyse. He killed a younger fresher Peterson, more quickly.

So it's all relative. You won't find a negative post by me on Spence, im a big fan. But beating Peterson down doesn't make him shoe-in no1 'p4p'

[jamamb]

bradley 120-107d peterson too

pets solid but not at that top level

[caldo2025]

The eye test is all that I need to form an opinion like this. While the rest of you need a resume and punch stats blah blah. What you don’t factor in is that most fighters don’t start getting the big fights until they are at the tail end of their prime. A boxer’s prime is fleeting and a lot smaller a window than you think.

Look at GGG for instance. The guy couldn’t get a fighter to sign a contract until he clearly showed his age catching up to him. P4P is not about resumes. It’s about talent, recent talent. Measure careers with resumes and punch stats all you want but P4P is all about who’s at their the current peak of ability in the sport and a P4P list without Spence Jr at the top or near it is not one I value.

[boxing_rocks]

The eye test is all that I need to form an opinion like this. While the rest of you need a resume and punch stats blah blah. What you don’t factor in is that most fighters don’t start getting the big fights until they are at the tail end of their prime. A boxer’s prime is fleeting and a lot smaller a window than you think.

Look at GGG for instance. The guy couldn’t get a fighter to sign a contract until he clearly showed his age catching up to him. P4P is not about resumes. It’s about talent, recent talent. Measure careers with resumes and punch stats all you want but P4P is all about who’s at their the current peak of ability in the sport and a P4P list without Spence Jr at the top or near it is not one I value.

My eye test is still telling me that Loma is better.

[Impractical Poster]

I'm sorry but I really have to question all of your boxing IQ's if you don't see the greatness that this kid is showing. I'm a true believer in having the resume to back the tout but there are some boxers that give you a "holy Shiit" moment when watching them fight and this kid's nickname should be changed to Errol "Holy Shiit" Spence Jr. No one will beat this kid.

You really think Spence is more talented and skilled than Lomachenko?

It wasn't all that long ago Spence was beaten in the Olympics. Loma has 2 gold medals. And Loma's opposition and performances at the professional level are quite a bit more impressive than Spence's. That says a lot seeing as how Loma has less than half the professional fights as Spence.

Don't let your bias cloud your objectivity.

[jamamb]

caldo = blah blah blah

[caldo2025]

I'm sorry but I really have to question all of your boxing IQ's if you don't see the greatness that this kid is showing. I'm a true believer in having the resume to back the tout but there are some boxers that give you a "holy Shiit" moment when watching them fight and this kid's nickname should be changed to Errol "Holy Shiit" Spence Jr. No one will beat this kid.

You really think Spence is more talented and skilled than Lomachenko?

It wasn't all that long ago Spence was beaten in the Olympics. Loma has 2 gold medals. And Loma's opposition and performances at the professional level are quite a bit more impressive than Spence's. That says a lot seeing as how Loma has less than half the professional fights as Spence.

Don't let your bias cloud your objectivity.

And it wasn't all that long ago that Loma was defeated in a professional fight so don't you think that is more detrimental to your Loma stance than an amateur loss when Spence was 21 years old? Oh that's right, I forgot that Loma's loss to Salido never happened according to Loma fans. Heck, i'm a Loma fan. He won me over. He's definitely #2 in my P4P list right now and I can appreciate that he's atop most people's lists right now. But Spence belongs high in the top 5 of an intelligent P4P list. I have Spence Jr nudging out Loma for the #1 spot because of the difference in punching power between the two. I feel Loma's punching power is way overrated and Spence hasn't been given his due for how hard he throws leather.

When it's all said and done, Spence Jr. is going to end up posting a ridiculous KO percentage for a 147 pounder. No one has been able to make it out of a 12 round fight with him yet..can't say that Loma fans. But the great thing about both Loma and Spence Jr is that as their opposition gets tougher, each has overachieved. Loma perhaps more so and that's why i won't argue with anyone with Loma #1 but to not put Spence near the top is illogical to me.

[boxing_rocks]

I'm sorry but I really have to question all of your boxing IQ's if you don't see the greatness that this kid is showing. I'm a true believer in having the resume to back the tout but there are some boxers that give you a "holy Shiit" moment when watching them fight and this kid's nickname should be changed to Errol "Holy Shiit" Spence Jr. No one will beat this kid.

You really think Spence is more talented and skilled than Lomachenko?

It wasn't all that long ago Spence was beaten in the Olympics. Loma has 2 gold medals. And Loma's opposition and performances at the professional level are quite a bit more impressive than Spence's. That says a lot seeing as how Loma has less than half the professional fights as Spence.

Don't let your bias cloud your objectivity.

And it wasn't all that long ago that Loma was defeated in a professional fight so don't you think that is more detrimental to your Loma stance than an amateur loss when Spence was 21 years old? Oh that's right, I forgot that Loma's loss to Salido never happened according to Loma fans. Heck, i'm a Loma fan. He won me over. He's definitely #2 in my P4P list right now and I can appreciate that he's atop most people's lists right now. But Spence belongs high in the top 5 of an intelligent P4P list. I have Spence Jr nudging out Loma for the #1 spot because of the difference in punching power between the two. I feel Loma's punching power is way overrated and Spence hasn't been given his due for how hard he throws leather.

When it's all said and done, Spence Jr. is going to end up posting a ridiculous KO percentage for a 147 pounder. No one has been able to make it out of a 12 round fight with him yet..can't say that Loma fans. But the great thing about both Loma and Spence Jr is that as their opposition gets tougher, each has overachieved. Loma perhaps more so and that's why i won't argue with anyone with Loma #1 but to not put Spence near the top is illogical to me.

Imagine Spence in his second pro fight facing Porter who would be 10 pounds heavier in the ring and would be allowed all kinds of fouls including low blows. Are you sure Spence would win?

[Counter-puncher]

The eye test is all that I need to form an opinion like this.

caldo's little double standards are so cute

*after a Lomachenko win*
some poster: Lomachenko is da best eva, P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4!!!!!

FURIOUS CALDO
'he hasn't earned it, who's he fought, this kid's done nothing in the pro game blah blah blah'

Spence hands a man who is, at best, in the very bottom reaches of the welterweight top 10, his like 5th loss

EXCITED CALDO
'P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P SPENCE IS DA BEST

I wish there was a 'pat on the head' smiley thing I could use, just to signify how cute I find caldo sometimes.

[IKSRTFO]

The eye test is all that I need to form an opinion like this. While the rest of you need a resume and punch stats blah blah. What you don’t factor in is that most fighters don’t start getting the big fights until they are at the tail end of their prime. A boxer’s prime is fleeting and a lot smaller a window than you think.

Look at GGG for instance. The guy couldn’t get a fighter to sign a contract until he clearly showed his age catching up to him. P4P is not about resumes. It’s about talent, recent talent. Measure careers with resumes and punch stats all you want but P4P is all about who’s at their the current peak of ability in the sport and a P4P list without Spence Jr at the top or near it is not one I value.

Well, since you said it, based on the eye test, Crawford is better in many ways than Spence, like defensively and he's faster, so by your eye test rules, Spence isn't even the best at 147.

[jamamb]

The eye test is all that I need to form an opinion like this.

caldo's little double standards are so cute

*after a Lomachenko win*
some poster: Lomachenko is da best eva, P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4!!!!!

FURIOUS CALDO
'he hasn't earned it, who's he fought, this kid's done nothing in the pro game blah blah blah'

Spence hands a man who is, at best, in the very bottom reaches of the welterweight top 10, his like 5th loss

EXCITED CALDO
'P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P SPENCE IS DA BEST

I wish there was a 'pat on the head' smiley thing I could use, just to signify how cute I find caldo sometimes.

typical from an attention seeking 'special' guy like caldo

first its all about records and paying dues then its all about the eyes. whatever lets him create these threads

[VG_Addict]

Spence isn't even top 10 P4P yet.

[gilgamesh]

Spence isn't even top 10 P4P yet.

I disagree. I have him on the low end of the Top 10.

#9 to be exact.

I do think some are overshooting it when they put him in the Top 3 already though definitely.

If you insist that he absolutely doesn't belong in the Top 10 then who do you have over him?

[boxing_rocks]

I would put it in #2-4 together with Crawford and GGG with Loma being #1.

[gilgamesh]

I would put it in #2-4 together with Crawford and GGG with Loma being #1.

While I certainly think Spence has the ability to be considered in that class. He just doesn't have the resume or the wins yet to be 2 thru 4 IMO.

He'll get there though. I have the utmost confidence in that.

[VG_Addict]

Spence isn't even top 10 P4P yet.

I disagree. I have him on the low end of the Top 10.

#9 to be exact.

I do think some are overshooting it when they put him in the Top 3 already though definitely.

If you insist that he absolutely doesn't belong in the Top 10 then who do you have over him?

I don't have a list, but I'd put Crawford, Golovkin, Lomachenko, Canelo and Mikey Garcia above him for sure.

[gilgamesh]

Spence isn't even top 10 P4P yet.

I disagree. I have him on the low end of the Top 10.

#9 to be exact.

I do think some are overshooting it when they put him in the Top 3 already though definitely.

If you insist that he absolutely doesn't belong in the Top 10 then who do you have over him?

I don't have a list, but I'd put Crawford, Golovkin, Lomachenko, Canelo and Mikey Garcia above him for sure.

I rank all of those guys above him as well. Also Usyk, Srisaket Sor Rungvisai and Sergey Kovalev. If somebody wanted to disagree with me on Sor Rungvisai and Kovalev I might not argue too hard with 'em, but the other 6 have definitely done more than Spence for now.

[SenorPipino]

Boys, boys. Why the need for arguing in circles?

Spence is a hellavu fighter. Everyone here seems to concur.

Is it really so important whether he's deserving of #1 P4P honors or if he hasn't even done enough to merit top 10 consideration?

His future performances will eventually shine light on his talents and settle all the disagreements. Maybe.

Where he Is today on anybody's list, is after all irrelevant . It's how you evolve and finish that defines your legacy, not how you start.

All questions will be answered. Have patience. Only time will reveal The Truth.

[gilgamesh]

Boys, boys. Why the need for arguing in circles?

Spence is a hellavu fighter. Everyone here seems to concur.

Is it really so important whether he's deserving of #1 P4P honors or if he hasn't even done enough to merit top 10 consideration?

His future performances will eventually shine light on his talents and settle all the disagreements. Maybe.

Where he Is today on anybody's list, is after all irrelevant . It's how you evolve and finish that defines your legacy, not how you start.

All questions will be answered. Have patience. Only time will reveal The Truth.

That's pretty much what I've been saying

My comments have been quite cordial

[caldo2025]

You really think Spence is more talented and skilled than Lomachenko?

It wasn't all that long ago Spence was beaten in the Olympics. Loma has 2 gold medals. And Loma's opposition and performances at the professional level are quite a bit more impressive than Spence's. That says a lot seeing as how Loma has less than half the professional fights as Spence.

Don't let your bias cloud your objectivity.

And it wasn't all that long ago that Loma was defeated in a professional fight so don't you think that is more detrimental to your Loma stance than an amateur loss when Spence was 21 years old? Oh that's right, I forgot that Loma's loss to Salido never happened according to Loma fans. Heck, i'm a Loma fan. He won me over. He's definitely #2 in my P4P list right now and I can appreciate that he's atop most people's lists right now. But Spence belongs high in the top 5 of an intelligent P4P list. I have Spence Jr nudging out Loma for the #1 spot because of the difference in punching power between the two. I feel Loma's punching power is way overrated and Spence hasn't been given his due for how hard he throws leather.

When it's all said and done, Spence Jr. is going to end up posting a ridiculous KO percentage for a 147 pounder. No one has been able to make it out of a 12 round fight with him yet..can't say that Loma fans. But the great thing about both Loma and Spence Jr is that as their opposition gets tougher, each has overachieved. Loma perhaps more so and that's why i won't argue with anyone with Loma #1 but to not put Spence near the top is illogical to me.

Imagine Spence in his second pro fight facing Porter who would be 10 pounds heavier in the ring and would be allowed all kinds of fouls including low blows. Are you sure Spence would win?

Here we go. Loma’s ever growing excuse team is at it again. What about the ring lights that night or the amount of oxygen in the air. Two grown men fought within the rules allowed by the ref and one clearly won and it wasn’t Loma. Please stop discounting Salido’s masterpiece theater. It was a thing of beauty and I loved every second of it

[caldo2025]

Boys, boys. Why the need for arguing in circles?

Spence is a hellavu fighter. Everyone here seems to concur.

Is it really so important whether he's deserving of #1 P4P honors or if he hasn't even done enough to merit top 10 consideration?

His future performances will eventually shine light on his talents and settle all the disagreements. Maybe.

Where he Is today on anybody's list, is after all irrelevant . It's how you evolve and finish that defines your legacy, not how you start.

All questions will be answered. Have patience. Only time will reveal The Truth.

That's pretty much what I've been saying

My comments have been quite cordial

I hate when someone sensibly stops a brewing fight. How dare you

[caldo2025]

The eye test is all that I need to form an opinion like this.

caldo's little double standards are so cute

*after a Lomachenko win*
some poster: Lomachenko is da best eva, P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4!!!!!

FURIOUS CALDO
'he hasn't earned it, who's he fought, this kid's done nothing in the pro game blah blah blah'

Spence hands a man who is, at best, in the very bottom reaches of the welterweight top 10, his like 5th loss

EXCITED CALDO
'P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P SPENCE IS DA BEST

I wish there was a 'pat on the head' smiley thing I could use, just to signify how cute I find caldo sometimes.

I only say what I need to in order win THAT particular argument dude. Wait, what?

[lazboy]

The eye test is all that I need to form an opinion like this.

caldo's little double standards are so cute

*after a Lomachenko win*
some poster: Lomachenko is da best eva, P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4!!!!!

FURIOUS CALDO
'he hasn't earned it, who's he fought, this kid's done nothing in the pro game blah blah blah'

Spence hands a man who is, at best, in the very bottom reaches of the welterweight top 10, his like 5th loss

EXCITED CALDO
'P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P4P SPENCE IS DA BEST

I wish there was a 'pat on the head' smiley thing I could use, just to signify how cute I find caldo sometimes.

Haha this is funny and accurate. I feel like he gets so mad sometimes. Don’t mind you though Caldo, not that I know you and also what counter p said I don’t have a bad word to say about Spence and/or Lomachenko. His skills are real!

[SenorPipino]

Boys, boys. Why the need for arguing in circles?

Spence is a hellavu fighter. Everyone here seems to concur.

Is it really so important whether he's deserving of #1 P4P honors or if he hasn't even done enough to merit top 10 consideration?

His future performances will eventually shine light on his talents and settle all the disagreements. Maybe.

Where he Is today on anybody's list, is after all irrelevant . It's how you evolve and finish that defines your legacy, not how you start.

All questions will be answered. Have patience. Only time will reveal The Truth.

That's pretty much what I've been saying

My comments have been quite cordial

I hate when someone sensibly stops a brewing fight. How dare you

Sorry.

But it always annoys me when fans argue so vehemently about something that's not factual but subjective.

Some here have actually opined that Sugar Ray Robinson is overrated (he lost a whopping 19 fights) and that Duran sucked because he was stopped on several occasions and lost 16 fights.

So if people can't acknowledge the supreme talents of 2 legendary ATGs, then how can we find agreement on the merits of a fighter whose career is really just beginning?