Tony Ayala, Jr., what if?

[NYDominican]

Back in 1983, Tony Ayala, Jr. was convicted of rape, and sent to prison. Tony was released from prison in 1999.

Had he not done that rape, stayed out of trouble, and continued his professional boxing career. ------- Do you think that he could have gone down as one of the greats such as a Benny Leonard , Henry Armstrong, Sugar Ray Robinson, Carlos Monzon, Marvin Hagler, Sugar Ray Leonard, Bernard Hopkins, or a Floyd Mayweather, Jr.? If so, why?


If not, why not?


Please explain.

[Tony1244]

It's impossible to know how he'd do in specific matches, even though some posters always think they know exactly what would have happened.

I'll say this, he had extraordinary talent but he had severe impulse control problems and servere drug problems. I'm not one of these people that say a little smoke or a few drinks will destroy a career, it depends on substances and amounts. So even if he had not committed rape that night, I do not think he would have had a long and successful career as he was already into heroin.

[gilgamesh]

It's impossible to know how he'd do in specific matches, even though some posters always think they know exactly what would have happened.

I'll say this, he had extraordinary talent but he had severe impulse control problems and servere drug problems. I'm not one of these people that say a little smoke or a few drinks will destroy a career, it depends on substances and amounts. So even if he had not committed rape that night, I do not think he would have had a long and successful career as he was already into heroin.

Yep. Even without committing violent crimes (which if you're a Heroin junkie it begins to become hard to avoid being a criminal after a while) a serious drug user isn't going to be able to maintain good form in ANY kind of Professional athletics.

[SenorPipino]

And a big fight that was widely talked about at the time was Ayala vs Duran.

The general feeling back then was that the young Ayala would pummel the aging Duran.

But in 1983, Duran rose to the occasion to butcher a young Moore.

He probably would have done the same to the overconfident, hardheaded and inexperienced Ayala.

[Nile4000]

Especially with a thumb.

[elmersalsa]

Tony Ayala, Jr was a terrific talent. One thing I know was that he could hit. El Torito was a banger.

In a fight with the great Roberto Duran around 1983 would have been a dream fight. Duran had the experience, but Torito had the youth and maybe the bigger punch. Duran would have had to come in great shape to win this fight, like when he fought Pipino Cuevas and Davey Moore. Anything less of that, he could get knocked out in a hurry.

[Tomasino]

Duran would have battered him then put him away by the 10th. He could hit but he didn’t have near the skill or heart of Duran.

[Esquire]

Ayala was a good young fighter who would have been a champion.

He came along when there were many great fighters in front of him. He wasn't a big man for his weight class and he would have been small when he ultimately got to the middleweight division, which was where they all ended up.

He might have snagged a big name along the way but I think he loses to almost all of the best at that time.

[bollocks]

I think Duran would have savaged Ayala and he would never have been the same fighter. I'd say he may have won a title if he avoided Duran but someone would have battered him and like Tyson, his aura of invincibility would have disappeared forever

[SenorPipino]

Especially with a thumb.

I think you could have amputated Duran's thumbs and he still would have destroyed Moore that night.

It was simply a case of a motivated legend putting a beating on a young inexperienced fighter who suddenly found himself out of his class.

[elmersalsa]

Especially with a thumb.

I think you could have amputated Duran's thumbs and he still would have destroyed Moore that night.

It was simply a case of a motivated legend putting a beating on a young inexperienced fighter who suddenly found himself out of his class.

I was very surprised to see how The Hands of Stone rocked Davey Moore. Moore, a much bigger and younger for, got his ass kicked that night.

What if the Duran that fought the great Wilfred Benitez or Tommy Hearns comes to the ring against Moore? Would Duran win? Or the one that fought Kirkland Laing, Luigi Minchillo or Nino Gonzalez? Does he beat Moore? Your thoughts.

[Ambling Alp II]

Back in 1983, Tony Ayala, Jr. was convicted of rape, and sent to prison. Tony was released from prison in 1999.

Had he not done that rape, stayed out of trouble, and continued his professional boxing career. ------- Do you think that he could have gone down as one of the greats such as a Benny Leonard , Henry Armstrong, Sugar Ray Robinson, Carlos Monzon, Marvin Hagler, Sugar Ray Leonard, Bernard Hopkins, or a Floyd Mayweather, Jr.? If so, why?


If not, why not?


Please explain.

We really have no idea. He never fought anyone near that level, so we don't really know good he would have been . The odds are that he would not have been that good.

[Seamus]

When a guy's best wins are over Carlos Herrera, Robbie Epps, and Steve Gregory, it's pretty silly to contemplate how he would have fared against legitimate Hall of Famers. I see some serious weaknesses in Ayala right here around the 5 minute mark against journeyman Mario Maldonado



Ayala was never in with a real world class puncher. I doubt he'd have fared too well.

[Nile4000]

Especially with a thumb.

I think you could have amputated Duran's thumbs and he still would have destroyed Moore that night.

It was simply a case of a motivated legend putting a beating on a young inexperienced fighter who suddenly found himself out of his class.

I was very surprised to see how The Hands of Stone rocked Davey Moore. Moore, a much bigger and younger for, got his ass kicked that night.

What if the Duran that fought the great Wilfred Benitez or Tommy Hearns comes to the ring against Moore? Would Duran win? Or the one that fought Kirkland Laing, Luigi Minchillo or Nino Gonzalez? Does he beat Moore? Your thoughts.

'
The version of Duran that fought Benitez or Hearns would lose to Moore, probably by decision, but Moore had enough power to hurt him, that version anyways.

[scorpio83]

Duran would have battered him then put him away by the 10th. He could hit but he didn’t have near the skill or heart of Duran.

I strongly agree with you Tomasino, the Roberto Duran who fought Davey Moore would have punish Tony Ayala Jr. and stop him in 12 rounds at least if he have not gone to jail.

[SenorPipino]

At that period of Duran's career, following the No Mas embarrassment, Duran needed a challenge to get in shape and motivated.

The Laings and Battens of the world simply didn't get his juices flowing and he could look like an ordinary, over the hill fighter.

But put him in with a name like Cuevas or Moore and the Roberto Duran of old returned.

That would happen too if he had fought hyped upstart Ayala.

Duran would be mentally and physically prepared and would have given Ayala a lesson in professional boxing and an all-around ass kicking.

[Tony1244]

At that period of Duran's career, following the No Mas embarrassment, Duran needed a challenge to get in shape and motivated.

The Laings and Battens of the world simply didn't get his juices flowing and he could look like an ordinary, over the hill fighter.

But put him in with a name like Cuevas or Moore and the Roberto Duran of old returned.

That would happen too if he had fought hyped upstart Ayala.

Duran would be mentally and physically prepared and would have given Ayala a lesson in professional boxing and an all-around ass kicking.

Agree totally. Durans' experience would have won over the crude Ayala.

[elmersalsa]

All I know is that The Hands of Stone cannot come under 100% to fight and expect to beat Tony Ayala, Jr.

[elmersalsa]

I think you could have amputated Duran's thumbs and he still would have destroyed Moore that night.

It was simply a case of a motivated legend putting a beating on a young inexperienced fighter who suddenly found himself out of his class.

I was very surprised to see how The Hands of Stone rocked Davey Moore. Moore, a much bigger and younger for, got his ass kicked that night.

What if the Duran that fought the great Wilfred Benitez or Tommy Hearns comes to the ring against Moore? Would Duran win? Or the one that fought Kirkland Laing, Luigi Minchillo or Nino Gonzalez? Does he beat Moore? Your thoughts.

'
The version of Duran that fought Benitez or Hearns would lose to Moore, probably by decision, but Moore had enough power to hurt him, that version anyways.

I agree. Davey Moore probably would have beaten Duran by knockout.

[Ambling Alp II]

Apparently we have hijacked the Tony Ayala thread and turned it into yet another Duran thread.

[elmersalsa]

Duran...The Greatest!

[oneblue1]

until he shit his pants against sugar ray

[SenorPipino]

Apparently we have hijacked the Tony Ayala thread and turned it into yet another Duran thread.

And they never even got around to fighting each other.

If they did, I wouldn't have been surprised if it was Ayala who said No Mas.

Even thought it was years later, Ayala surrendered between rounds when he faced adversity in the form of Yory Boy Campas.

He probably always had that front runner mentality, even as a young fighter.

If so Duran would have brought it out of him had they fought circa 1983.

[Ambling Alp II]

Sorry, it just bugged me that just a day after someone had started a thread (Tony Ayala Jr., what if) the discussion had already moved to Roberto Duran and his fights with Moore. Hearns, Benitez etc. We can start the one millionth discussion about Duran on another thread.

Would anyone like it if a thread that they started got hijacked that quickly ?

I don't think Ayala would have done well against a great fighter; at least the inexperienced version of him that we saw before he was sent to prison. Perhaps he could have developed into a better fighter that was good enough to do compete with the greats but I doubt it.

The Campas fight didn't help his reputation. Quitting in a fight should hurt a fighter's legacy; though some people want to give their favorites a free pass for doing that.

[SenorPipino]

His quitting against Campas raises suspicion about his heart and toughness, but in fairness he was 37 at the time and just a year removed from a 16 year prison stint.

We will never know if a young Ayala would have behaved the same way if he encountered the same kind of adversity.