Classic fights I've watched recently

[lazboy]

James Toney v Michael Nunn

Toney the underdog and younger man, fought with hungry energy and aggression eventually stopping the champion Nunn in the 11th. Revisiting this fight (knowing the result) although competitive, Toney should have been on his way to winning a decision having landed the harder more effective punches. This might be at odds with comments that Toney needed a KO to win although it was a different time when the contender needed to conclusively best the champ.

[lazboy]

James Toney v Reggie Johnson

Just six weeks after defeating Nunn to capture the middleweight title Toney makes his first defence agaisnt the young and dangerous southpaw Johnson. Toney is legitimately floored by a huge left that hits him on the button in round two. He’s wobbled and survives while Johnson pours on the punches. From this point, the output slows from both men. Toney, the aggressor throughout with Johnson circling on his feet, defending well and mostly avoiding exchanging inside.

Ever so slightly Toney raises the tempo on Johnson in tight, difficult to score rounds. At times it looked as if Toney was on the verge of taking over the tiring Johnson but Johnson managed to come back on numerous occasions, moving and boxing well. The later rounds, both are fatigued and both struggling to dominate.

Not a great fight to watch. More a war of fitness attrition with few exciting clean exchanges thanks to the movement/defence of Johnson and the slipperyness of Toney. I felt Toney was far more effective v Nunn and needed a KO to really cement this victory moreso than in Nunn. Toney wins by SD with understandably close scores.

[SenorPipino]

James Toney v Michael Nunn

Toney the underdog and younger man, fought with hungry energy and aggression eventually stopping the champion Nunn in the 11th. Revisiting this fight (knowing the result) although competitive, Toney should have been on his way to winning a decision having landed the harder more effective punches. This might be at odds with comments that Toney needed a KO to win although it was a different time when the contender needed to conclusively best the champ.

I thought that Nunn was winning handily.

His slick, smooth style stymied Toney, as it did everyone else.

When I was having trouble trying to select a winner in the Toney-Jones Jr. fight, I recalled how Toney seemed so impotent against a terrific boxer like Nunn.

I finally figured that. Nunn revealed the blueprint for beating Toney, and that Jones was capable of also pulling it off.

I've always felt that needing to conclusively beat the champion is a myth.

If a judge has the challenger up by a point at the conclusion of a fight, what does he say to himself?

"Gee just one point. That's not convincing enough to earn him the title. I better change my scorecard."

No. I don't buy it.

[Ambling Alp II]

Always wished there would have been rematch for this fight.

[lazboy]

James Toney v Michael Nunn

Toney the underdog and younger man, fought with hungry energy and aggression eventually stopping the champion Nunn in the 11th. Revisiting this fight (knowing the result) although competitive, Toney should have been on his way to winning a decision having landed the harder more effective punches. This might be at odds with comments that Toney needed a KO to win although it was a different time when the contender needed to conclusively best the champ.

I thought that Nunn was winning handily.

His slick, smooth style stymied Toney, as it did everyone else.

When I was having trouble trying to select a winner in the Toney-Jones Jr. fight, I recalled how Toney seemed so impotent against a terrific boxer like Nunn.

I finally figured that. Nunn revealed the blueprint for beating Toney, and that Jones was capable of also pulling it off.

I've always felt that needing to conclusively beat the champion is a myth.

If a judge has the challenger up by a point at the conclusion of a fight, what does he say to himself?

"Gee just one point. That's not convincing enough to earn him the title. I better change my scorecard."

No. I don't buy it.

Senior,

We have disagreed on several things in the recent past, why not keep that tradition strong:

A fight that Toney could have lost, a fight that could have been a blue print more so than the Nunn fight was the Johnson fight just mentioned. Nunn was willing to exchange on the inside with Toney, a mistake. Johnson kept his distance throughout. Something Jones was brilliant at, with his “fencing” type boxing style and awkward powerful distance bombs.

In terms of your comments about the judges. I do not think they would re-calculate their scorecards post the majority of rounds, rather they would award close rounds to the champ as there is a general reluctance in boxing (to this day) to “award” a 10 – 10 round. This, in my opinion, is what happened in this very fight as Toney was tailing on the official scorecards.

The Nunn fight is on youtube and can be seen in relative high quality. I would be interested in other members revisiting it (if interested, it is an entertaining one) and hearing their opinions re: the scoring disregarding the commentary if possible. Whether Toney was made to look so impotent as you put it but I just don’t buy it.

[handsofstone]

George Foreman vs Scott LeDoux


Foreman KOs a brave LeDoux in the 3rd, a sickening right uppercut similar to the one that KO'd Roman, LeDoux was game and went down fighting but after a methodical first couple of rounds from Foreman he battered LeDoux in the 3rd, LeDoux took some heavy blows without going down before he was KO'd, showed a great chin but Foreman was ruthless, he's so heavy handed and the shots he throws to head and body do real damage, LeDoux was out cold

[handsofstone]

George Foreman vs Dwight Muhammad Qawi


Foreman stops Qawi in the 7th after Qawi turned away after being nailed by 2 clubbing right hands, this was Foreman out of retirement and Qawi was getting on a bit himself but what an effort he put in, could argue he won the first 5 rounds, Forman was slow, clumsy and plodding, he never used the jab and he just pushed Qawi constantly

Qawi on the other hand looked sharp and dangerous for the first few rounds, really taking the fight to Foreman, doing as a fighter should do against a much bigger foe, exploding into action with 2 fists and hit Foreman with some cracking flush punches, big left hooks and overhand rights, if Foreman had a bad chin then he'd have been in trouble

You always sensed Foreman was just walking Qawi down though, letting him gas and imposing his weight on him. Foreman should've been credited with a KD in the 6th after putting Qawi down with a cracking right hand/left uppercut, the ropes kept Qawi up but for some reason the ref said no KD

Foreman finished off Qawi in the 7th though, a body shot then 2 massive right hands and Qawi had had enough, there were boos in the crowd for Qawi quitting but he gave it a great effort, Foreman just too big and strong

[lazboy]

James Toney v Danny Garcia

A few fights post his destruction of Iran Barkley, Toney shuts out (winning every round) and stops the outmatched Garcia who retires in his corner. Toney showcases a hurtful display of body punches. The consistency of the body attack, much skin to his cruiserweight victory over Jirov, is at times, unpleasant to watch. Repeatedly Toney hammers the organs, sinking his fits into the flesh of Garcia’s sides. Toney floors Garcia with a headshot one or two rounds before the end. Another day in the office for the mean fighter.

[handsofstone]

George Foreman vs Bert Cooper


Cooper quits on his stool after 2 rounds to a chorus of boos, not sure the exact reason but it was a shocker, he came out and tried to get on his toes against Foreman, shooting out the jab whilst moving around but Foreman as ever just walked him down and hurt him to the body several times with those big clubbing shots, he nailed Cooper with a cracking straight right in the 2nd

Think even in the short time it lasted, Cooper felt Foreman's power and wanted no part of it

[Ambling Alp II]

I remember Cooper saying that he had ringing in his ears. This fight was on either USA Network or ESPN; which was a pretty good matchup for them. Cooper fought a lot of good opponents. Though he usually lost, he often made it an interesting fight. It was very surprising at the time that he quit so easily.

[handsofstone]

I remember Cooper saying that he had ringing in his ears. This fight was on either USA Network or ESPN; which was a pretty good matchup for them. Cooper fought a lot of good opponents. Though he usually lost, he often made it an interesting fight. It was very surprising at the time that he quit so easily.

I'd only ever seen Cooper's fight with Moorer and he certainly had his moments in that

[lazboy]

I remember Cooper saying that he had ringing in his ears. This fight was on either USA Network or ESPN; which was a pretty good matchup for them. Cooper fought a lot of good opponents. Though he usually lost, he often made it an interesting fight. It was very surprising at the time that he quit so easily.

I'd only ever seen Cooper's fight with Moorer and he certainly had his moments in that

Both cooper and Mercer are involved in great fun heavyweight brawls. Lovely to watch then watch them battle each other.

[Ambling Alp II]

I'm sure several other fights are available on Youtube with Cooper and Mercer. Mercer was a couple of levels ahead of Cooper. Mercer had fun fights to watch against Holyfield, Lewis and Morrison.

Cooper really came onto the scene when he stopped Willie DeWit. This fight was on network TV. His fight against Carl Williams was on network TV as well. He then gradually became a "gatekeeper" who could sometimes give contenders trouble. He had a lot of fights on ESPN.
He got a title shot against Holyfield after Tyson and then Damiani dropped out. He actually had Holyfield in trouble at one point. (the ref even credited Cooper with a knockdown because Holyfield grabbed onto the ropes to avoid a knockdown. ( I had never even heard of the rule before, never mind seeing it enforced.
The Holyfield fight was on HBO. After the fight, even though he lost, Cooper apparently thought he was now in the big time. He kept saying "no more ESPN fights for me". ESPN was known for having low-level fights for low pay.

Of course he eventually fought on ESPN. I remember in ESPN's promos for a Cooper fight, they even said "he's baaack"!

[lazboy]

I'm sure several other fights are available on Youtube with Cooper and Mercer. Mercer was a couple of levels ahead of Cooper. Mercer had fun fights to watch against Holyfield, Lewis and Morrison.

Cooper really came onto the scene when he stopped Willie DeWit. This fight was on network TV. His fight against Carl Williams was on network TV as well. He then gradually became a "gatekeeper" who could sometimes give contenders trouble. He had a lot of fights on ESPN.
He got a title shot against Holyfield after Tyson and then Damiani dropped out. He actually had Holyfield in trouble at one point. (the ref even credited Cooper with a knockdown because Holyfield grabbed onto the ropes to avoid a knockdown. ( I had never even heard of the rule before, never mind seeing it enforced.
The Holyfield fight was on HBO. After the fight, even though he lost, Cooper apparently thought he was now in the big time. He kept saying "no more ESPN fights for me". ESPN was known for having low-level fights for low pay.

Of course he eventually fought on ESPN. I remember in ESPN's promos for a Cooper fight, they even said "he's baaack"!

That’s funny. Thanks for the info and I agree, Mercer was a couple of levels above him. Both had some entertaining affairs. Cooper Holyfield as you mentioned is a good brawl. I also feel that, if Mercer was around today, he would be one of the kings if not the king of the heavyweights.

[handsofstone]

George Foreman vs Gerry Cooney


Foreman KOs Cooney in the 2nd, Cooney had a decent 1st round, it was a bit of a jab off between both guys but Cooney hurt Foreman with a left hook, the worst Foreman was ever hurt according to Big George himself

Foreman rocked Cooney with a big left uppercut in the 2nd and sent him down with a follow up combo, Cooney was fvcked, bravely got up, Foreman walked in left uppercut/right hand, goodnight, Cooney was sleeping

[Ambling Alp II]

Always thought this was by far Foreman's best performance in his comeback. In so many of his other fights (in his comeback) he just could not follow up when an opponent was hurt. This time he was all over Cooney.

[handsofstone]

George Foreman vs Alex Stewart


Foreman puts Stewart down twice in the 2nd round en route to a close MD win, nightmare start for Stewart, down twice from right hands, a clubbing right had him down first then a straight right, the 3 KD rule was in effect but Foreman couldn't get a 3rd KD, he really put it on Stewart for the first 4 or so rounds but Stewart came into in the middle rounds, establishing a great jab and bouncing around the ring bewildering Foreman who looked for the big one punch KO, Foreman's eyes were both closed and his mouth was bleeding badly but he was still dangerous with big single shots which Stewart struggled to take

Credit to Stewart though he performed out of his skin after a disasterous start and he outboxed Foreman for the majority of the second half of the fight, Foreman had a point off for repeated low blows in the 9th which tightened the cards up but the 2 early KDs secured a close win

[handsofstone]

Tommy Morrison vs George Foreman


Morrison wins a wide UD to win the vacant Heavyweight title, really good performance from Morrison he was pretty much punch perfect, better in every department although TBF Foreman was flat even by his own standards, he has some chin though George, punches just bounce off him with no effect and Morrison can bang and he nailed Foreman with huge left hooks and right hands all night, his jab and footwork were excellent too

Any time Foreman landed clean, Morrison reacted well sometimes moving out of danger but mostly firing right back, really good showing , Foreman lost a point for a low blow in the 10th, well deserved win for Morrison, Foreman was poor, all he did was walk forward slowly and clumsily

[SenorPipino]

George Foreman vs Gerry Cooney


Foreman KOs Cooney in the 2nd, Cooney had a decent 1st round, it was a bit of a jab off between both guys but Cooney hurt Foreman with a left hook, the worst Foreman was ever hurt according to Big George himself

Foreman rocked Cooney with a big left uppercut in the 2nd and sent him down with a follow up combo, Cooney was fvcked, bravely got up, Foreman walked in left uppercut/right hand, goodnight, Cooney was sleeping

Cooney did rock Foreman pretty good with that shot.

But I think Foreman was just being kind when he said that was the worst he had ever been hurt.

Maybe he forgot about those shots years earlier from Lyle that twice sent him to the canvas, with his face plastered to the mat.

[handsofstone]

George Foreman vs Axel Schulz


Foreman wins a close dubious MD to retain his title, I never scored the fight but I thought Schulz won at least 8 rounds, he was busier and outboxed Foreman using similar tactics as Morrison did against Big George by punching, moving and bursting into 2 fisted flurries, there wasn't anything on the shots to hurt Foreman but they were point scoring and IMO Foreman's strategy of just plodding forward and pushing the occasional jab and right hands wasn't enough to win the fight for me

Larry Merchant had Foreman winning wider than the 2 judges did but Lederman and Clancy had Schulz winning, Foreman turned up the pace in the closing rounds but Schulz done a good job of keeping control by trading with Foreman and not allowing himself to be outworked

Bit of a robbery IMO

[handsofstone]

Shannon Briggs vs George Foreman


Briggs wins a dodgy MD in the final fight of Foreman's career, I personally think even the drawn card is too close, Foreman was better in every department bar movement, his jab was excellent and so was his left hook, 2 punches that he wasn't known that well for at that stage of his career, he never had much success with the right hand but the jabs and hooks should've been enough for him to get the win, Briggs fought the whole fight on the backfoot and was a bit gun shy throughout, Foreman walked him down snapping his head back with solid jabs and nailing him with lefts

Briggs had his moments but they were few and far between and he was outworked over the 12 rounds IMO, great last performance from Foreman and a shame to go out like that, Briggs got a gift, maybe not as big a one Foreman got against Schulz but Foreman deserved the win

[handsofstone]

Sugar Ray Robinson vs Sammy Angott 3 (highlights)


Could only find 6 minutes of grainy footage of their 3rd fight, Robinson won all 3 fights via 10 round decision, not much to go from what little I seen but it was clear Robinson was the more skiled boxer, low left hand jabbing and bursting into combinations, Angott was a lot smaller and looked a lot more rough and ready and tried to rough Robinson up and like a lot of old fights there was a lot of holding by the looks of things

[Ambling Alp II]

George Foreman vs Axel Schulz


Foreman wins a close dubious MD to retain his title, I never scored the fight but I thought Schulz won at least 8 rounds, he was busier and outboxed Foreman using similar tactics as Morrison did against Big George by punching, moving and bursting into 2 fisted flurries, there wasn't anything on the shots to hurt Foreman but they were point scoring and IMO Foreman's strategy of just plodding forward and pushing the occasional jab and right hands wasn't enough to win the fight for me

Larry Merchant had Foreman winning wider than the 2 judges did but Lederman and Clancy had Schulz winning, Foreman turned up the pace in the closing rounds but Schulz done a good job of keeping control by trading with Foreman and not allowing himself to be outworked

Bit of a robbery IMO

I didn't remember that Merchant thought Foreman won by even more than the judges.. That is incredible.
That was a terrible decision. I just don't know how you can come up with 7 rounds that were close enough to give to Foreman. He really looked bad in that fight; it was obvious that he needed to retire. Not that Schulz was anything special, but I always felt sorry for him because he didn't get his 15 minutes of fame.

I think the robbery term is overused. However this was one.

[handsofstone]

George Foreman vs Axel Schulz


Foreman wins a close dubious MD to retain his title, I never scored the fight but I thought Schulz won at least 8 rounds, he was busier and outboxed Foreman using similar tactics as Morrison did against Big George by punching, moving and bursting into 2 fisted flurries, there wasn't anything on the shots to hurt Foreman but they were point scoring and IMO Foreman's strategy of just plodding forward and pushing the occasional jab and right hands wasn't enough to win the fight for me

Larry Merchant had Foreman winning wider than the 2 judges did but Lederman and Clancy had Schulz winning, Foreman turned up the pace in the closing rounds but Schulz done a good job of keeping control by trading with Foreman and not allowing himself to be outworked

Bit of a robbery IMO

I didn't remember that Merchant thought Foreman won by even more than the judges.. That is incredible.
That was a terrible decision. I just don't know how you can come up with 7 rounds that were close enough to give to Foreman. He really looked bad in that fight; it was obvious that he needed to retire. Not that Schulz was anything special, but I always felt sorry for him because he didn't get his 15 minutes of fame.

I think the robbery term is overused. However this was one.

Agreed, Foreman was pretty awful that night, makes the much improved performance against Briggs afterwards a bit strange......

[Ambling Alp II]

The end result was that Briggs is better remembered than Schulz.