My p4p list, January 2018

[Mexi-Box]

1. Gennady Golovkin
2. Terence Crawford
3. Vasyl Lomachenko
4. Saul Alvarez
5. Srisaket Sor Rungivsai
6. Nayoa Inoue
7. Mikey Garcia
8. Sergey Kovalev
9. Oleksandr Usyk
10. Errol Spence Jr.

I think the top 3 are nailed on in any order. Then Canelo and Sor Rungivsai are interchangeable, I gave the edge to Canelo for the depth of his resume, but Sor Rungivsai has the 2 best wins to be fair, if he beats Estrada I'll probably move him to #4. Inoue is sitting solidly at #6, hasn't quite done enough to crack the top 5 but comfortably clear of 7-10.

Garcia, Spence, Kovalev and Usyk are also interchangeable for me, I wouldn't argue with any order for those 4. I can see why some people would drop Kovalev out but I just don't think any of the 10-15 ranked guys have done enough to budge him, considering he was consensus top 5 before the Ward fights. I went for Mikey and Kovalev over Spence and Usyk as their resumes are deeper (Mikey over Kovalev because he didn't lose 2 fights recently). Then went with Usyk over Spence as Glowacki, Mchunu, Hunter, Huck and Briedis beats Peterson, Brook, Bundu, Algieri and van Heerden IMO.

I suppose the likes of Thurman are on the edge (Chaves, Guerrero, Collazo, Porter and Garcia are a good top 5 wins) but his inactivity is stopping him getting the momentum to displace the fighters above him.

Solid list until you get to Errol Spence Jr. He doesn't belong on any p4p list. Broken Brook and aging Peterson aren't anywhere near p4p wins.

I'd also say that Sor Rungvisai at #4 is way too low if he beats Estrada. Guy would have beaten 2 p4p contemporaries. No one would have come close to that level of resume. That's an amazing achievement. I'd have the Sor Rungvisai/Estrada winner as p4p #1 up until Canelo/Golovkin comes around in May and we get a clear winner.

[ajwesty13]

I t say Wilder WOULD beat AJ. He's just the one guy that could. I agree he's not very skillful, but he can hit. If he gets there with his punch it could be enough. Fury isn't a dedicated enough athlete to be a threat to AJ or Wilder.

I suppose that pretty sums up the lack of talent in the HW division..

I do not think so . Recent HW division is much better than five ( or three) years ago.

Agreed not as weak as a few years but its more to do with interesting match ups rather than an abundance of talent

[ElJefe]

1. Gennady Golovkin
2. Terence Crawford
3. Vasyl Lomachenko
4. Saul Alvarez
5. Srisaket Sor Rungivsai
6. Nayoa Inoue
7. Mikey Garcia
8. Sergey Kovalev
9. Oleksandr Usyk
10. Errol Spence Jr.

I think the top 3 are nailed on in any order. Then Canelo and Sor Rungivsai are interchangeable, I gave the edge to Canelo for the depth of his resume, but Sor Rungivsai has the 2 best wins to be fair, if he beats Estrada I'll probably move him to #4. Inoue is sitting solidly at #6, hasn't quite done enough to crack the top 5 but comfortably clear of 7-10.

Garcia, Spence, Kovalev and Usyk are also interchangeable for me, I wouldn't argue with any order for those 4. I can see why some people would drop Kovalev out but I just don't think any of the 10-15 ranked guys have done enough to budge him, considering he was consensus top 5 before the Ward fights. I went for Mikey and Kovalev over Spence and Usyk as their resumes are deeper (Mikey over Kovalev because he didn't lose 2 fights recently). Then went with Usyk over Spence as Glowacki, Mchunu, Hunter, Huck and Briedis beats Peterson, Brook, Bundu, Algieri and van Heerden IMO.

I suppose the likes of Thurman are on the edge (Chaves, Guerrero, Collazo, Porter and Garcia are a good top 5 wins) but his inactivity is stopping him getting the momentum to displace the fighters above him.

Solid list until you get to Errol Spence Jr. He doesn't belong on any p4p list. Broken Brook and aging Peterson aren't anywhere near p4p wins.

I'd also say that Sor Rungvisai at #4 is way too low if he beats Estrada. Guy would have beaten 2 p4p contemporaries. No one would have come close to that level of resume. That's an amazing achievement. I'd have the Sor Rungvisai/Estrada winner as p4p #1 up until Canelo/Golovkin comes around in May and we get a clear winner.

Fair point re: Sor Rungivsai, wouldn't have any complaints with anyone having him higher, although Gonzalez was showing signs of decline imo so I'm hesitant to throw him in there just yet. Definitely would have named him FOTY for 2017 though.

Spence's resume isn't deep but I'm not sure there's many other candidates. "Broken Brook" is harsh. He lost to Golovkin and maybe had trouble coming back to 147 but it's an excellent win away from home. The eye that was damaged against GGG was fine against Spence so it's not like there was too many visible and lasting effects from that fight. Unfair to take anything away from Spence just because Brook may have been tight at the weight, especially considering making 147 had never previously harmed his performances. I can see the argument for Estrada being in there and Thurman as I mentioned, but not many others.

[jamamb]

wangek is good no doubt but i think hes the most out of place in high spots in p4p lists relative to his ability. i think the gonzalez wins were really nice but also coming very much at the right time and weight, and tbh i thought the first couldve easily gone to gonzales. i think estrada is a lower top 25 p4p fighter and i think hell beat wangek clearly. even though estrada lost to gonzalez down in weight a few years ago hes much fresher and imo better suited size wise and stylistically to heavier classes.

[Mexi-Box]

wangek is good no doubt but i think hes the most out of place in high spots in p4p lists relative to his ability. i think the gonzalez wins were really nice but also coming very much at the right time and weight, and tbh i thought the first couldve easily gone to gonzales. i think estrada is a lower top 25 p4p fighter and i think hell beat wangek clearly. even though estrada lost to gonzalez down in weight a few years ago hes much fresher and imo better suited size wise and stylistically to heavier classes.

Crawford and Lomachenko have a weaker resume. Sor Rungvisai doesn't look like a killer because he's been matched tougher than both. He also almost knocked out Cuadras in their fight. Also, your opinion that Estrada is a lower top 25 is completely ridiculous. I can't believe you just stated that.

You clearly don't follow the lower weights.

[jamamb]

i do follow the lower weights, although i know you like to think your special and that your the only one who follows the lower weights. why dont you tell us again how great a challenger mijares is for berchelt

wangek has a win over one top opponent. and like i said, i think the circumstances of timing and weight make it flatter him. he lost to cuadras and imo will lose to estrada. i dont see that as being a top 5 p4p fighter

[Deleted_Scenes]

wangek is good no doubt but i think hes the most out of place in high spots in p4p lists relative to his ability. i think the gonzalez wins were really nice but also coming very much at the right time and weight, and tbh i thought the first couldve easily gone to gonzales. i think estrada is a lower top 25 p4p fighter and i think hell beat wangek clearly. even though estrada lost to gonzalez down in weight a few years ago hes much fresher and imo better suited size wise and stylistically to heavier classes.

Crawford and Lomachenko have a weaker resume. Sor Rungvisai doesn't look like a killer because he's been matched tougher than both. He also almost knocked out Cuadras in their fight. Also, your opinion that Estrada is a lower top 25 is completely ridiculous. I can't believe you just stated that.

You clearly don't follow the lower weights.

I'm with you. Estrada is clearly better than lower 25. Even being harsh, I couldn't name any more than 12 or 13 you could reasonably put above him. As good a shout as any for the number 10 spot, and with his body of work, certainly more deserving of it than Spence.

[Mexi-Box]

i do follow the lower weights, although i know you like to think your special and that your the only one who follows the lower weights. why dont you tell us again how great a challenger mijares is for berchelt

wangek has a win over one top opponent. and like i said, i think the circumstances of timing and weight make it flatter him. he lost to cuadras and imo will lose to estrada. i dont see that as being a top 5 p4p fighter

Nice strawman, but it really doesn't work here. You've been found out. As I said, you obviously don't follow the lower weights. Cuadras was very lucky the fight got prematurely halted. He was on his way to getting stopped.

Your opinions are pretty damn stupid.

I'd challenge you to name 20 boxers that have a better body of work than Estrada. Go ahead.

[jamamb]

not a straw man at all. tell me how it is. im not manufactoring any false argument to argue against. you dumb dumb stop using terms incorrectly!

wangek will lose to estrada, just like he lost to cuadras. hes good but i dont think hes an elite fighter on a p4p level. his ability isnt up to that level imo and theres a bigger gap between his ability and high p4p ranking and the ability and ranking of most other consensus p4p ers.

i mean, when youve only beaten one notable top opponent, a guy stretched beyond his weight, and pretty much no one else. that type of thing can happen. lets see some wins across multiple top fighters. he lost to cuadras and i bet he loses to estrada too. i think hed lose to inoue as well.

[Mexi-Box]

not a straw man at all. tell me how it is. im not manufactoring any false argument to argue against. you dumb dumb stop using terms incorrectly!

wangek will lose to estrada, just like he lost to cuadras. hes good but i dont think hes an elite fighter on a p4p level. his ability isnt up to that level imo and theres a bigger gap between his ability and high p4p ranking and the ability and ranking of most other consensus p4p ers.

i mean, when youve only beaten one notable top opponent and pretty much no one else. that type of thing can happen. lets see some wins across multiple top fighters. he lost to cuadras and i bet he loses to estrada too. i think hed lose to inoue as well.

Where is your list of 20 fighters with a better body of work than Estrada. As I said, you don't follow the lower weights, and you just straight exposed yourself.

You're completely misrepresenting what I said about Mijares/Berchelt. With Berchelt coming off an injury, it was a solid fight. Yes, you came up with a silly argument after being found out. I cut through it like a razor. Now, you're just babbling like a mental midget.

[jamamb]

ya sure, you cut through my argument with your highly insightful, one of a kind intellectual masterpieces like 'cuadras was gonna be stopped!' and 'nah ah, estrada better than p4p top 25!'

amazing. only a masterful thinker could come up with that. same type of genius who acts like barely beating andres guiterrez and going on win streaks vs nobodies is a big f@cking deal same kind of genius who follows the lower weights so closely that he thinks donnie nietes fought tanaka

i think you could make a case for about 20 guys being above estrada, sure, although thats just you deflecting from your weak weak argument about wangek. hey , lets say estrada is top 10 or 15 p4p. if wangek really is a top 4 p4p fighter he should beat him. and of course he shouldve beaten cuadras too, but he didn't.

couldnt beat cuadras, is gonna lose to estrada. has beaten one world class opponent, who while still good was stretched past his best time and weight. this is a good fighter, but hardly a p4p top 5 talent.

watch

[Mexi-Box]

ya sure, you cut through my argument with your highly insightful, one of a kind intellectual masterpieces like 'cuadras was gonna be stopped!' and 'nah ah, estrada better than p4p top 25!'

amazing. only a masterful thinker could come up with that. same type of genius who acts like barely beating andres guiterrez and going on win streaks vs nobodies is a big f@cking deal same kind of genius who thinks donnie nietes fought tanaka

i think you could make a case for about 20 guys being above estrada, sure, although thats just you deflecting from your weak weak argument about wangek. hey , lets say estrada is top 10 or 15 p4p. if wangek really is a top 4 p4p fighter he should beat him. and of course he shouldve beaten cuadras too, but he didn't.

couldnt beat cuadras, is gonna lose to estrada. has beaten one world class opponent, who while still good was stretched past his best time and weight. this is a good fighter, but hardly a p4p top 5 talent.

watch

What weak argument about Sor Rungvisai? He's easily p4p #1 if he beats Estrada. What the hell are you talking about?
Secondly, where is your list of 20 guys. I want to see it so the whole forum can laugh at you.

Also, I haven't seen you commit to any argument disproving it. You obviously haven't watched Sor Rungvisai/Cuadras, and you obviously don't follow the lower weights. And now you are just coming on with the straw man arguments.

[jamamb]

i follow the lower weights closely enough to know that tanaka and nieties didnt fight. lmao where do you get that nonsense from

do you have trouble following along son? my first post, that you decided to reply to, was that wangek is not top 5 p4p on ability and that theres a bigger discrepancy between his p4p ranking and ability than there is for other consensus p4pers. thats my point son, anything else is you just trying to deflect or missing the point. wangek being p4p 1 will never become an issue because hes going to lose to estrada, just like he lost a fair decision to cuadras. p4p top 5 guys shouldnt be losing to cuadras. and they should have wins over more than one good opponent.

wangek is good but hes beaten one good fighter. roman wasnt special at 115 or after all that wear and tear. pretty much no one was impressed with him vs arroyo or cuadras. wangek has beaten no one else. hes not at that elite p4p level.

here are just some guys who could be rated higher p4p than estrada. estradas still a very good fighter btw and hell beat wangek clearly. it will be very good vs plain old good

ggg
canelo
garcia
loma
craw
usyk
craw
inoue
thurman
lsc
kov
gassiev
briedis
lara
jack
frampton
charlo
joshua

[Mexi-Box]

i follow the lower weights closely enough to know that tanaka and nieties didnt fight. lmao where do you get that nonsense from

do you have trouble following along son? my first post, that you decided to reply to, was that wangek is not top 5 p4p on ability and that theres a bigger discrepancy between his p4p ranking and ability than there is for other consensus p4pers. thats my point son, anything else is you just trying to deflect or missing the point. wangek being p4p 1 will never become an issue because hes going to lose to estrada, just like he lost a fair decision to cuadras. p4p top 5 guys shouldnt be losing to cuadras. and they should have wins over more than one good opponent.

wangek is good but hes beaten one good fighter. roman wasnt special at 115 or after all that wear and tear. pretty much no one was impressed with him vs arroyo or cuadras. wangek has beaten no one else. hes not at that elite p4p level.

here are just some guys who could be rated higher p4p than estrada. estradas still a very good fighter btw and hell beat wangek clearly. it will be very good for plain old good

ggg
canelo
garcia
loma
craw
usyk
craw
inoue
thurman
lsc
kov
gassiev
briedis
lara
jack
frampton
charlo
joshua

You obviously can't read because I already apologized because I read it as Fuentes for some reason. It was a simple mistake. You're arguments are so stupid that you have to follow me around and catch simple errors. First, you need to stop stalking me, and second, you need to stop trying to pretend that it's an argument. You can go ahead and do it, but you come off looking like an idiot.

You're done. I can't believe you think that list is defensible.

[jamamb]

ya, im stalking you so much that your the one who started the discussion with me here. im flattered that you like me that much mate