Prime Question: George Groves

[Counter-puncher]

It’s a tricky one isn’t it.
When people talk about a boxers prime, they generally mean when we’re they physically at their peak.
In Groves case I suspect his physical peak has been and gone, however if that was the deciding factor in the Groves v Eubank contest I don’t think Groves would ever have been the superior man.
I’d say Groves is not at his peak, but is in the best position of his career to beat CEJ.
A different proposition entirely, but I don’t think a prime Ali would have beat George Foreman, certainly not the decisive way in which the post prime Ali did.

Good post

[higgs88]

i see Eubank weighing around 11.4 during the xmas period, his just too small for Groves. Groves wins by KO

[Bigdogsnose]

Eubank looks kinda like groves did coming into them Froch fights - just unshakable in his self confidence. No doubt for me George has had to exercise some demons since he got starched and will continue to do so.

This is the first fight since Froch that he hasn't been expected to win (pretty sure he was favorite to beat Jack - who's stock has risen hugely since he fought Groves). Rebrasse, Gutenecht, Murray, Brophy all solid but a level below Groves and maybe couldn't really test his supposed mental fragility the way a confident, skillful opponent like eubank might be able to.

His title fight, I thought he would just outbox him but he looked pretty fragile for a bit before turning it round. Again in the Cox fight, didn't look too much wrong with his mental make up- overcoming a slow start against a fired up albeit probably limited challenger.

He's got masses of experience now to go with his obvious ability so maybe this will be the prime Grove. I hope so.

[Yes We Can]

Is it possible for somebody to not have a prime or not reach it?

The Froch fights came to early and whilst he performed exceptionally in both to an extent i do wonder if it stole his prime away. He's recovered well, in the rebrasse and Jack fights I felt he tried to change his style to prove a point but recently he's looked a lot more methodical and sharp.

I think he ends the CEJ fight in the 5th or 6th walking him into something big, Jr still lunges into shots and it will cost him dear.

[MarkMcBurney]

No , don't think he is , never been the same since the second Froch fight .

Would love to see him do a number on junior , but I can't see it happening .

Disagree.
I thought he was "Cobra'd" and would never be quite the same again. BUT gradually.., he's got over it.
Little by little he's recovered, improved... Very experienced, knows what he can and can't do - he's now the best he's ever been .

How can you go into a fight against a well known puncher with confidence after taking such a heavy KO defeat previously ?

It must have an effect ?

I don't think anyone at 168lb hits harder than Groves IMO. I really hope you're not referring to Eubank as a 'well known puncher'....?!

I'd say he was the opposite personally. As feather fisted as they come in the super middleweight division IMO.

[skanksta]

lot of ppl just lazily go with the cobra'd angle just because froch said it, but its wrong. froch didnt ruin him. there were plenty of wild and sloppy showings before. his boxings as good as ever fight to fight and his stamina issues are widely overblown.he threw like 1000 punches vs jack in a very competetive fight and was still busy late. closed strong vs murray, gutnechkt, rebrsse6.

do ppl think he was some perfect boxer? do they not remember why he was such a big underdog for degale and froch?

i find the 3 years ongoing 'groves is finished/badly faded' narrative totally bizarre and just one of those things the masses start parroting w/o much actual evidence or hard thought. cej beats him though

Don't think it was that bizarre - in his first two fights after Froch he looked a little tentative, gun-shy, like he would never be quite as good again.
Totally agree he's over it now though.

[PredatorHayds]

Past his prime for me.

He’s had a tough career physically and mentally.

The huge rivalry with JDG at British level.
Split with Booth.
Froch fight build up.
Froch controversy.
Rematch Build up.
The embarrassment of being the victim of such a public KO.
The Jack loss when a huge favourite.
The public split with Paddy.
The relieve of finally being world champion.

Some rollercoaster he’s been on. Always seemed to mentally get involved with things he didn’t need to.

Everyone buzzes about his Chudinov win. A couple of years before he’d of boxed his ears off.
He went life and death with him. Took some huge punches which is a credit to his chin.

His fundamentals are so good he can still go to the well, when needed and get a win. But a fresh and relentless CEJ could outwork him.

[stujones]

I think his prime was in the Gutneckt fight. That was his best performance for me. I don't think he has looked quite a strong since in the WBA title fights.

[CaptainSpacerod]

Everyone buzzes about his Chudinov win. A couple of years before he’d of boxed his ears off.
He went life and death with him. Took some huge punches which is a credit to his chin.

Totally agree with your point. Eubank would’ve made easy work of Chud.

I think a prime George easily beats Eubank - too big and too good.

Sadly now i think eubank has his number.

[Chinawhite]

George Groves is at his peak
Chris Eubank Jr is one of the most overrated fighters ever.
His only had one decent opponent in Billy Joe Saunders and he was found out.
George groves is a more experienced fighter, if he can box with his head. Use the Jab and use his weight and height advantage I can only see this going one way.
Eubank Jr has several flaws groves will exploit and he is a step up in class from past opposition. The Froch defeat was four years ago people need to get over it, Groves is now a far more rounded experienced boxer and this is now his fight to lose.

[Nightmare Roy]

Maybe not, still to big and good for June though at 13/8 it's a very good price.

[lurkyshaka]

I think he's still in his prime.....its just now his strengths and weaknesses are well known, where previously he was more of an unknown quantity.

We know he is a little bit vulnerable about the whiskers and his stamina is patchy. But I don't think he's lost a step or regressed in his strong areas and I don't see him as any more vulnerable in his weaker areas. In fact I think he's probably improved slightly in some of the weaker aspects.

He's worked on his stamina and being smarter with his energy reserves, he's still a ferocious puncher and he's got a great jab. Tactically I think he's more switched on now, he's shrewder and better at working around the weaknesses. He certainly went through a rough patch after the Froch fights where his confidence, interest and belief wavered....but to his credit he applied himself and got back on track.

He is what he is....a dangerous fighter with plenty of upside, but he's never all that far away from the wheels coming off.

[bigjack]

George Groves is at his peak
Chris Eubank Jr is one of the most overrated fighters ever.
His only had one decent opponent in Billy Joe Saunders and he was found out.
George groves is a more experienced fighter, if he can box with his head. Use the Jab and use his weight and height advantage I can only see this going one way.
Eubank Jr has several flaws groves will exploit and he is a step up in class from past opposition. The Froch defeat was four years ago people need to get over it, Groves is now a far more rounded experienced boxer and this is now his fight to lose.

He was hardly found out,he was very inexperienced and concerned about the 12 rounds distance and pushed a triple champion almost to the limit in a close fight.

[Crease]

Is George Groves past his prime? Well, when was he in his prime. He has had a few good performances in his career but they have been spread out.

That's a good point that. Groves had had something of a stop-start career and he's never made it as big as he has wanted too.
But if he wins this Super Eight tournament then we'll all be saying he is in his prime and this would have been his best run of form.

[Coco]

If Eubank gets him out of there in the first half of the fight, without ever being in danger, everyone will say Groves was well gone.

[Crease]

How can you go into a fight against a well known puncher with confidence after taking such a heavy KO defeat previously?

For 2 reasons:

1 - Groves is a big Super Middleweight and Eubank Jr is a Middleweight. The size difference could be telling. Eubank Jr may have never been hit as hard as Groves is going to hit him, but Groves has been in the ring with very strong Super Middles like Froch, he'll not be pushed about by CEJ.

2 - Whilst CEJ may be powerful at Middleweight, in his own perspective he's never fought a man as big and powerful as George. Everyone who spars George compliments his jab - it's fast and hard. CEJ may have his face busted up in this fight.

It must have an effect ?

Certainly it does, but he is fighting a Middleweight next. Maybe you'll notice it if the fight against Calum Smith comes off.

[JWP]

Its all about perception and perspective.

Everyone including Groves himself felt that Froch would eventually walk through George. That perception before, inbetween and after both fights never left.

Thats not the case here, its not man v boy as it was with Froch. To me George feels and looks and probably is a bigger and stronger man now than 4/5 years ago. He'll need to stamp his authority on Jr early, thats a must, and it'll make the rest of the fight so much easier if he does.