George Groves vs. Chris Eubank Jr - 17 February 2018

[smiling assassin]

In the minority on here but I’ve got a very strong feeling Eubank is going to ko Groves in about four rounds

I'm the complete opposite I think groves gets him out of there between 4-5

[MightyWarrior]

among the various reasons that have been given by various people for a Eubank win, its difficult to pick which is the more troubling assumption- that Eubank has punching power, that he is a skillful boxer (neither of which has he remotely proven at any kind of level), that he must have a great chin because his dad did (ask Marvis Frazier how that one goes), that he has this iron self-belief (that has never had to prove itself against serious competition)... I'm just at all the assumptions that have been made.

and it gets better, as from where I am sitting, even his supposed ace in the hole card, his real tangible supposed advantage is that he seems to have a good engine. and that has been proven largely by posting training montages on Instagram and throwing 50 punch combinations against people who are basically unable for various reasons to hit him back.

I mean ,this incredible engine (woooh he's such a beast you should see his training montages on Insta), we're talking about, has been into the 12th round 3 whole times

Nicely put, but how do you account for so many Brit boxers & fight figures picking Eubank? And the bookies I hear.
Are they completely deluded while watching Junior ? The BM poll has it 20-10 to junior.
I’m still not decided, probably going to wait for the weigh in, regardless of dad Junior seems to have a very good chin; spike might not hit as hard as groves but i reckon he can seriously whack, landed perfectly and never troubled him.
Junior might not have proved much but there’s something about him that is obviously convincing a lot of people.

[Coco]

Groves for me, he has got a bit too much of everything.

For Eubank to win Groves will need to be tactically naive, have gone back a bit and Eubank will have to show something he hasn't done before.

[Counter-puncher]

among the various reasons that have been given by various people for a Eubank win, its difficult to pick which is the more troubling assumption- that Eubank has punching power, that he is a skillful boxer (neither of which has he remotely proven at any kind of level), that he must have a great chin because his dad did (ask Marvis Frazier how that one goes), that he has this iron self-belief (that has never had to prove itself against serious competition)... I'm just at all the assumptions that have been made.

and it gets better, as from where I am sitting, even his supposed ace in the hole card, his real tangible supposed advantage is that he seems to have a good engine. and that has been proven largely by posting training montages on Instagram and throwing 50 punch combinations against people who are basically unable for various reasons to hit him back.

I mean ,this incredible engine (woooh he's such a beast you should see his training montages on Insta), we're talking about, has been into the 12th round 3 whole times

Nicely put, but how do you account for so many Brit boxers & fight figures picking Eubank? Are they completely deluded while watching Junior ? The BM poll has it 20-10 to junior.

Good question. Not being arrogant enough to say they're just deluded, I assume their perception is that Eubanks (supposed or demonstrable) assets of stamina and toughness mesh in his favour with Groves (perceived or actual) defects in chin and stamina, and they think this will be more important, will trump the (to me fairly obvious and glaring) advantages Groves has in size, power, ring craft and experience.

To me, Eubanks perceived or actual advantages in the elements mentioned aren't enough to outweigh the advantages Groves has.

Someone else has already mentioned I think, that it will be interesting to see Eubanks stamina against a clever boxer who can have him twitching and flinching at feints and little dips of the shoulder. A 'cleverer' fighter can often drain the gas tank of a fitter but 'stupider' fighter in this way. If Groves gets he jab in he can have Eubank twitching at feints, head then body body then head, for long periods of the fight.

I guess the argument in favour of Eubank is he will just walk through shots to set the higher tempo than Groves likes (he was fine in a pretty high tempo fight against Jack, a proven decentpuncher much bigger than Eubank, but still...... ), and his super-titanium skull will simply absorb what he needs to whilst he throws multiple-hook combinations at Groves (never mind that anyone who has flown at Groves like that, Chudinov and Cox the only ones who spring to mind, most other Groves opponents have learned early they had to respect his power, anyone like Chudinov or Cox who has tried to walk through Groves has got banjoed, Carl fvcking Man of Steel Froch didn't try to walk through Groves, proven tough 168lb world level fighters haven't walked through Groves, but little Eubank would because er because his dads chin? )

Sure as shit Junior ain't out boxing Groves anyway

[Coco]

If Groves chooses to, the easiest way for him to win is like he did against Degale.

I have a feeling McGuican will encourage him to choose different tactics though which will make for a better fight.

[Stuarty]

If Groves chooses to, the easiest way for him to win is like he did against Degale.

I have a feeling McGuican will encourage him to choose different tactics though which will make for a better fight.

Barely scraped by against DeGale though. I actually had JDG winning that just. I get your point though Wonder if Eubank will make the mistake of starting slow again like he did against BJS.

[Counter-puncher]

If Groves chooses to, the easiest way for him to win is like he did against Degale.

I have a feeling McGuican will encourage him to choose different tactics though which will make for a better fight.

Barely scraped by against DeGale though. I actually had JDG winning that just. I get your point though Wonder if Eubank will make the mistake of starting slow again like he did against BJS.

Degale lost cos he wasn't used to having to chase the fight on the front foot

I'd have Groves backing Eubank up. He would get his confidence more easily on the front foot. I'd want to take his confidence away early doors.

[TheLeprechaun]

among the various reasons that have been given by various people for a Eubank win, its difficult to pick which is the more troubling assumption- that Eubank has punching power, that he is a skillful boxer (neither of which has he remotely proven at any kind of level), that he must have a great chin because his dad did (ask Marvis Frazier how that one goes), that he has this iron self-belief (that has never had to prove itself against serious competition)... I'm just at all the assumptions that have been made.

and it gets better, as from where I am sitting, even his supposed ace in the hole card, his real tangible supposed advantage is that he seems to have a good engine. and that has been proven largely by posting training montages on Instagram and throwing 50 punch combinations against people who are basically unable for various reasons to hit him back.

I mean ,this incredible engine (woooh he's such a beast you should see his training montages on Insta), we're talking about, has been into the 12th round 3 whole times

Nicely put, but how do you account for so many Brit boxers & fight figures picking Eubank? Are they completely deluded while watching Junior ? The BM poll has it 20-10 to junior.

Good question. Not being arrogant enough to say they're just deluded, I assume their perception is that Eubanks (supposed or demonstrable) assets of stamina and toughness mesh in his favour with Groves (perceived or actual) defects in chin and stamina, and they think this will be more important, will trump the (to me fairly obvious and glaring) advantages Groves has in size, power, ring craft and experience.

To me, Eubanks perceived or actual advantages in the elements mentioned aren't enough to outweigh the advantages Groves has.

Someone else has already mentioned I think, that it will be interesting to see Eubanks stamina against a clever boxer who can have him twitching and flinching at feints and little dips of the shoulder. A 'cleverer' fighter can often drain the gas tank of a fitter but 'stupider' fighter in this way. If Groves gets he jab in he can have Eubank twitching at feints, head then body body then head, for long periods of the fight.

I guess the argument in favour of Eubank is he will just walk through shots to set the higher tempo than Groves likes (he was fine in a pretty high tempo fight against Jack, a proven decentpuncher much bigger than Eubank, but still...... ), and his super-titanium skull will simply absorb what he needs to whilst he throws multiple-hook combinations at Groves (never mind that anyone who has flown at Groves like that, Chudinov and Cox the only ones who spring to mind, most other Groves opponents have learned early they had to respect his power, anyone like Chudinov or Cox who has tried to walk through Groves has got banjoed, Carl fvcking Man of Steel Froch didn't try to walk through Groves, proven tough 168lb world level fighters haven't walked through Groves, but little Eubank would because er because his dads chin? )

Sure as poo Junior ain't out boxing Groves anyway

For me it comes down to groves vs rebrasse, murray, and cox. I think he generally looked poor in all those and Eubanks is better than all three. In the murray and cox fights I remember being a bit concerned and worried while watching and I had backed groves heavily both times.

[jamamb]

which fighters etc did the bm poll include

because someone posted this poll of 'experts' that favours groves 20-8. i guess if you combine the polls you get a very close split.

• Callum Smith - Groves
• Spencer Fearon - Eubank Jr.
• Tony Bellew - Groves
• Dominic Ingle - Eubank Jr.
• Kell Brook - Eubank Jr.
• Kid Galahad - Groves
• Dillian Whyte - Groves
• Jim McDonnell - Groves
• Billy Joe Saunders - Groves
• Adam Booth - Groves
• Joe Calzaghe - Groves
• David Haye - Groves
• James DeGale - Groves
• Jamie Cox - Groves
• J'Leon Love - Groves
• Badou Jack - Groves
• Carl Froch - Eubank Jr.
• Robbie Davies Jr. - Eubank Jr.
• Lee Selby - Groves
• Danny Wilson - Groves
• Renold Quinlan - Eubank Jr.
• Chris ‘2Slick’ Kongo - Groves
• Ricky Hatton - Groves
• Johnny Nelson - Groves
• Andy Lee - Groves
• Anthony Crolla - Eubank Jr.
• Dougie Fischer - Eubank Jr.
• Zack Parker - Groves

[jamamb]

Nicely put, but how do you account for so many Brit boxers & fight figures picking Eubank? Are they completely deluded while watching Junior ? The BM poll has it 20-10 to junior.

Good question. Not being arrogant enough to say they're just deluded, I assume their perception is that Eubanks (supposed or demonstrable) assets of stamina and toughness mesh in his favour with Groves (perceived or actual) defects in chin and stamina, and they think this will be more important, will trump the (to me fairly obvious and glaring) advantages Groves has in size, power, ring craft and experience.

To me, Eubanks perceived or actual advantages in the elements mentioned aren't enough to outweigh the advantages Groves has.

Someone else has already mentioned I think, that it will be interesting to see Eubanks stamina against a clever boxer who can have him twitching and flinching at feints and little dips of the shoulder. A 'cleverer' fighter can often drain the gas tank of a fitter but 'stupider' fighter in this way. If Groves gets he jab in he can have Eubank twitching at feints, head then body body then head, for long periods of the fight.

I guess the argument in favour of Eubank is he will just walk through shots to set the higher tempo than Groves likes (he was fine in a pretty high tempo fight against Jack, a proven decentpuncher much bigger than Eubank, but still...... ), and his super-titanium skull will simply absorb what he needs to whilst he throws multiple-hook combinations at Groves (never mind that anyone who has flown at Groves like that, Chudinov and Cox the only ones who spring to mind, most other Groves opponents have learned early they had to respect his power, anyone like Chudinov or Cox who has tried to walk through Groves has got banjoed, Carl fvcking Man of Steel Froch didn't try to walk through Groves, proven tough 168lb world level fighters haven't walked through Groves, but little Eubank would because er because his dads chin? )

Sure as poo Junior ain't out boxing Groves anyway

For me it comes down to groves vs rebrasse, murray, and cox. I think he generally looked poor in all those and Eubanks is better than all three. In the murray and cox fights I remember being a bit concerned and worried while watching and I had backed groves heavily both times.

if you were worried for him against murray you must be made anxxious easily. maybe you just see groves as generally vulnerable so get worried no matter what. murray got his ass handed to him and hardly mustered up anything. cox had him under some pressure but tbh thought it was pretty ragged and ineffectual, and groves had him done pretty early. chudinov actually broke groves jaw and did have in a battle though

but eubank though is way better than all those guys though, i agree.

[Counter-puncher]

Nicely put, but how do you account for so many Brit boxers & fight figures picking Eubank? Are they completely deluded while watching Junior ? The BM poll has it 20-10 to junior.

Good question. Not being arrogant enough to say they're just deluded, I assume their perception is that Eubanks (supposed or demonstrable) assets of stamina and toughness mesh in his favour with Groves (perceived or actual) defects in chin and stamina, and they think this will be more important, will trump the (to me fairly obvious and glaring) advantages Groves has in size, power, ring craft and experience.

To me, Eubanks perceived or actual advantages in the elements mentioned aren't enough to outweigh the advantages Groves has.

Someone else has already mentioned I think, that it will be interesting to see Eubanks stamina against a clever boxer who can have him twitching and flinching at feints and little dips of the shoulder. A 'cleverer' fighter can often drain the gas tank of a fitter but 'stupider' fighter in this way. If Groves gets he jab in he can have Eubank twitching at feints, head then body body then head, for long periods of the fight.

I guess the argument in favour of Eubank is he will just walk through shots to set the higher tempo than Groves likes (he was fine in a pretty high tempo fight against Jack, a proven decentpuncher much bigger than Eubank, but still...... ), and his super-titanium skull will simply absorb what he needs to whilst he throws multiple-hook combinations at Groves (never mind that anyone who has flown at Groves like that, Chudinov and Cox the only ones who spring to mind, most other Groves opponents have learned early they had to respect his power, anyone like Chudinov or Cox who has tried to walk through Groves has got banjoed, Carl fvcking Man of Steel Froch didn't try to walk through Groves, proven tough 168lb world level fighters haven't walked through Groves, but little Eubank would because er because his dads chin? )

Sure as poo Junior ain't out boxing Groves anyway

For me it comes down to groves vs rebrasse, murray, and cox. I think he generally looked poor in all those and Eubanks is better than all three. In the murray and cox fights I remember being a bit concerned and worried while watching and I had backed groves heavily both times.

Rebrasse i haven't seen. Personally I thought Cox left Groves basically untroubled.

To be fair sometimes when you've got money riding in it you mate get more concerned than you would have done otherwise?

[MightyWarrior]

Did Chud break his jaw? I hadn’t heard that before. Interesting so many fighters picking George in that poll, yes the BM one is different; a few of the same fighters, but mainly different names.

George sometimes looks vulnerable and can be shook up if he’s caught cleanly, Smith and Anderson - not known as big hitters. But his deadly punching pulls it out of the bag usually.

That Russian was tough as hell, like he couldn’t be knocked out, except with the wrecking balls that Groves was throwing. Yes there’s a good possibility Junior could be in for a shock.

[Counter-puncher]

Did Chud break his jaw? I hadn’t heard that before. Interesting so many fighters picking George in that poll, yes the BM one is different; a few of the same fighters, but mainly different names.

George sometimes looks vulnerable and can be shook up if he’s caught cleanly, Smith and Anderson - not known as big hitters. But his deadly punching pulls it out of the bag usually.

That Russian was tough as hell, couldn’t be knocked out except with the wrecking balls that Groves was throwing. Yes there’s a good possibility Junior could be in for a shock.

I don't really recall Groves getting shaken by Smith, I was there.

[jamamb]

groves at least claims his jaw was broken by chudinov...third round

[MarkMcBurney]

Did Chud break his jaw? I hadn’t heard that before. Interesting so many fighters picking George in that poll, yes the BM one is different; a few of the same fighters, but mainly different names.

George sometimes looks vulnerable and can be shook up if he’s caught cleanly, Smith and Anderson - not known as big hitters. But his deadly punching pulls it out of the bag usually.

That Russian was tough as hell, couldn’t be knocked out except with the wrecking balls that Groves was throwing. Yes there’s a good possibility Junior could be in for a shock.

I don't really recall Groves getting shaken by Smith, I was there.

I do seem to recall Smith catching Groves at the end of the round before it ended....?

[Counter-puncher]

He landed a punch?

[MightyWarrior]

He was caught by a huge shot from Smith at the end of the round, looked hurt but must’ve recovered fast. Maybe not as bad as I recall it, But watching it I was alarmed - always been a big George Groves fan, as hes from down the road in Hammersmith

[jamamb]

just press play. looked a bit shook. but no worse than eubank did vs spike.

[Grilling Machine]

None of us can know what either man's thinking right now, but Groves has lost a fight to a man with a great engine after flooring him, while Eubank's never faced anyone as big and powerful.

I think it all comes down to respect. If Groves secretly rates Eubank then that could be the worst possible news for the latter. Groves really did look sharp the other day, and if that's a result of career-peak fitness in anticipation of Eubank's engine then I can only see one winner. I did wonder if Groves had slight lifts in his shoes during their face-to-face, and if so, that kinda confirms that he fully recognises the threat.

On the other hand, it's not out of the question that Groves is a touch overconfident given his far better record, and if he starts blowing in the middle rounds then it's all to play for. But I'm picking Groves, because I think he has to lose for Eubank to win, and I don't think he's that far gone. He does seem to be markedly focused at this crossroads in his career, embracing it with fierce intentions.

Mentally, Eubank's also terrified of humiliation if it turns out that he's bitten off too much too soon, whereas Groves has been there and come back from it. It's different for Eubank because he alienates so many people, adding unnecessary pressure on himself to avoid giving his haters the pleasure of seeing him bashed. It's sometimes easier to box in front of haters than fans, and that worked out for his dad, but in the end everyone prefers to be liked. Senior had his Thompson fights for that, but if Junior loses this comprehensively he'll be jeered back to his dressing room.

I'll be amazed if he has the fortitude to box his own fight without all of that self-inflicted pressure getting to him.

Groves — TKO

[TheLeprechaun]

Good question. Not being arrogant enough to say they're just deluded, I assume their perception is that Eubanks (supposed or demonstrable) assets of stamina and toughness mesh in his favour with Groves (perceived or actual) defects in chin and stamina, and they think this will be more important, will trump the (to me fairly obvious and glaring) advantages Groves has in size, power, ring craft and experience.

To me, Eubanks perceived or actual advantages in the elements mentioned aren't enough to outweigh the advantages Groves has.

Someone else has already mentioned I think, that it will be interesting to see Eubanks stamina against a clever boxer who can have him twitching and flinching at feints and little dips of the shoulder. A 'cleverer' fighter can often drain the gas tank of a fitter but 'stupider' fighter in this way. If Groves gets he jab in he can have Eubank twitching at feints, head then body body then head, for long periods of the fight.

I guess the argument in favour of Eubank is he will just walk through shots to set the higher tempo than Groves likes (he was fine in a pretty high tempo fight against Jack, a proven decentpuncher much bigger than Eubank, but still...... ), and his super-titanium skull will simply absorb what he needs to whilst he throws multiple-hook combinations at Groves (never mind that anyone who has flown at Groves like that, Chudinov and Cox the only ones who spring to mind, most other Groves opponents have learned early they had to respect his power, anyone like Chudinov or Cox who has tried to walk through Groves has got banjoed, Carl fvcking Man of Steel Froch didn't try to walk through Groves, proven tough 168lb world level fighters haven't walked through Groves, but little Eubank would because er because his dads chin? )

Sure as poo Junior ain't out boxing Groves anyway

For me it comes down to groves vs rebrasse, murray, and cox. I think he generally looked poor in all those and Eubanks is better than all three. In the murray and cox fights I remember being a bit concerned and worried while watching and I had backed groves heavily both times.

if you were worried for him against murray you must be made anxxious easily. maybe you just see groves as generally vulnerable so get worried no matter what. murray got his ass handed to him and hardly mustered up anything. cox had him under some pressure but tbh thought it was pretty ragged and ineffectual, and groves had him done pretty early. chudinov actually broke groves jaw and did have in a battle though

but eubank though is way better than all those guys though, i agree.

I can't remember if it was the 10th or 11th but towards the end of the round Groves was hurt pretty bad and I thought he was going to unravel. He also looked pretty tired.

I thought Chudinov would have caused serious problems if he was able to hang in there for a few more rounds because Groves was being forced to blow himself out but that was a fight that I thought Groves was always in control of.

Cox was losing but I liked what he was doing and I remember one time he had Groves hurt from a right hand and holding on a bit.

Where I fear for Groves here is if the fight goes beyond 6 rounds Groves will become tired and starts progressively losing his form and getting caught. I fear that Eubank could be a terrible style for George because I think he has a speed advantage and might be able to get inside and just catch george with the faster shots. Groves has always looked a bit porous defensively.

Saying that, Groves is my favourite fighter to watch and I can see him landing a big shot and dropping Eubank heavily, which would change the complexion of the fight. It's a fight I don't really see going the distance.

[jamamb]

i never really thought groves was in serious trouble at all vs murray and he won the 11th and then absolutely battered him in the 12th. just did not at all seem like a fight where groves performance was anxiety producing. i thought it was 11-1 but maybe you could give murray two other rounds if generous.

[Counter-puncher]

He was caught by a huge shot from Smith at the end of the round, looked hurt but must’ve recovered fast. Maybe not as bad as I recall it, But watching it I was alarmed - always been a big George Groves fan, as hes from down the road in Hammersmith

Decent shot, wouldn't call it huge

[Stuarty]

Remember Anderson had Groves in all sorts of bother early on in his career. Done really well to get through that and get the stoppage though

[Counter-puncher]

He was defo hurt there but IIRC it was the same round (?) that he came back to hurt Anderson to the body? I think Anderson had him against the ropes and he slammed a couple in and totally deflated him

[Stuarty]

He was defo hurt there but IIRC it was the same round (?) that he came back to hurt Anderson to the body? I think Anderson had him against the ropes and he slammed a couple in and totally deflated him

Think Anderson had him down then had him going the following round. Groves dragged himself back in to it and worked the body well though yeah. He's a very underrated body puncher.