Punching power - George Groves (SMW) ?

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 15 Feb 2018, 14:14

What do you think ?

jamamb · Post by **jamamb** » 15 Feb 2018, 14:16

hes arguably the top puncher at smw now. deffo the hardest with counters. although there arent many genuine bangers in the division at this point tbh.

id say maybe an 8. very solid power but not quite at that massive level. to me he would p4p be a bit lower than ggg, who i see as a bit below the likes of stevenson and wilder.

but thing with groves is hes also fast and can land those sneaky shots ppl either dont see or that catch them between shots. like vs froch and cox and smith.

SenorPipino · Post by **SenorPipino** » 15 Feb 2018, 14:29

I gave Groves a 7. Obvious power.

But he really hadn't turned the KO trick against the true world class fighters so I can't go higher.

I 'd be stunned if Groves was able to stop Eubank. His history just doesn't suggest it even if he is the naturally bigger man.

Nobody asked me but I'd give Eubank a 6.5.

jamamb · Post by **jamamb** » 15 Feb 2018, 14:30

groves putting froch down that hard and having him shaky for several rounds was a pretty good power display at an elite level. he had froch far more hurt than hed ever been. kessler, abraham, pascal, etc couldnt budge froch nearly as much and even taylor didnt have froch gun shy for several rounds like groves did.

SenorPipino · Post by **SenorPipino** » 15 Feb 2018, 15:02

A true huge puncher doesn't just hurt opponents. Or even knocks them down.

He finishes them off.

That's what I expect from the 8+s.

Foreman didn't gain his monster puncher rep from just knocking down the Frazier's, Norton's and Lyle's.

He stopped these elites---emphatically.

That's what Groves has to do to warrant a higher score.

gilgamesh · Post by **gilgamesh** » 15 Feb 2018, 15:04

SenorPipino wrote: ↑15 Feb 2018, 14:29 I gave Groves a 7. Obvious power.

But he really hadn't turned the KO trick against the true world class fighters so I can't go higher.

I 'd be stunned if Groves was able to stop Eubank. His history just doesn't suggest it even if he is the naturally bigger man.

Nobody asked me but I'd give Eubank a 6.5.

Yeah 7 seems about right.

Thomastearns · Post by **Thomastearns** » 15 Feb 2018, 15:10

Any professional boxer can be knocked out by a single blow if the the timing is right. Even a Pauli Malignaggi could deliver a KO in the right circumstances. Pauli just prefers to box behind a defence rather than go looking to land full power shots.

Groves has blistering hand speed and as they say, it's the punches you don't see that are the most dangerous. There is no chance to react so you cant brace yourself or attempt to cushion the blow with head movement Duran style.

Unlike Malignaggi, Groves is more than willing to take a few risks in landing his big shots. In fact he's been constantly criticised for his willingness to mix it when he has such sublime boxing skills. A bit like Tommy Hearns who could have given anyone a boxing lesson. Tommy admittedly was in a different class altogether than George, but if he'd wanted a better record he could have had one by choosing to box behind a defence a bit more.

There should be no dispute regarding Groves' power, its just the old question of not allowing him (or any other opponent) to use it. When the granite chinned Carl Froch got a little too close this is what happened as we can see here in slow motion.

Boxerbeetle · Post by **Boxerbeetle** » 15 Feb 2018, 15:12

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 15 Feb 2018, 16:08

Thomastearns wrote: ↑15 Feb 2018, 15:10 Any professional boxer can be knocked out by a single blow if the the timing is right. Even a Pauli Malignaggi could deliver a KO in the right circumstances. Pauli just prefers to box behind a defence rather than go looking to land full power shots.

Groves has blistering hand speed and as they say, it's the punches you don't see that are the most dangerous. There is no chance to react so you cant brace yourself or attempt to cushion the blow with head movement Duran style.

Unlike Malignaggi, Groves is more than willing to take a few risks in landing his big shots. In fact he's been constantly criticised for his willingness to mix it when he has such sublime boxing skills. A bit like Tommy Hearns who could have given anyone a boxing lesson. Tommy admittedly was in a different class altogether than George, but if he'd wanted a better record he could have had one by choosing to box behind a defence a bit more.

There should be no dispute regarding Groves' power, its just the old question of not allowing him (or any other opponent) to use it. When the granite chinned Carl Froch got a little too close this is what happened as we can see here in slow motion.

Peach of a shot, would have knocked plenty of fighters cold that.

Counter-puncher · Post by **Counter-puncher** » 15 Feb 2018, 16:20

SenorPipino wrote: ↑15 Feb 2018, 14:29

Nobody asked me but I'd give Eubank a 6.5.

As a super middleweight?

jamamb · Post by **jamamb** » 15 Feb 2018, 16:22

SenorPipino wrote: ↑15 Feb 2018, 15:02 A true huge puncher doesn't just hurt opponents. Or even knocks them down.

He finishes them off.

That's what I expect from the 8+s.

Foreman didn't gain his monster puncher rep from just knocking down the Frazier's, Norton's and Lyle's.

He stopped these elites---emphatically.

That's what Groves has to do to warrant a higher score.

foreman id give like a 10 to,. keeping in mind there can be a bit of variation in power even for guys with the same number. hes an atg puncher and i dont think anyones really putting groves at that level.

8 i consider big but not huge, and it doesnt require stopping an elite fighter (wilder i even rate 9 or 10 but he hasnt stopped anyone elite). having an elite iron chinned fighter down and seriously hurt can qualify. it shows the force to seriously hurt a guy who takes shots well and had never been hurt like that before.

if groves had actually flattened and kod froch then id be looking more at 9 or 10 range. that wouldve been seriously impressive and i dont think anyone today wouldve had a comparable ko of a high end super durable opponent.

Counter-puncher · Post by **Counter-puncher** » 15 Feb 2018, 16:37

Yeah, flattening and KO'ing Froch would make you, like, 168lb Julian Jackson

Enlightened-One · Post by **Enlightened-One** » 15 Feb 2018, 16:48

George Groves has his flaws for sure, but he does have strong points too.

Whilst people appreciate his punching power, I feel that his jab is his best weapon.

lazboy · Post by **lazboy** » 15 Feb 2018, 18:42

Yes very good jab, good hand speed, power and long limbs that he throws awkwardly at times in close that sort of wrap around opponents. Although I slightly favour Eubank...because of his style.... His head movement/defence for the jab, his willingness to be close, his stamina...I still think this is a 50/50 fight and hopefully will be exciting to watch.

ClivePatrickLyons · Post by **ClivePatrickLyons** » 16 Feb 2018, 00:58

speed will beat power most of the time and this time will be no different.

jamamb · Post by **jamamb** » 16 Feb 2018, 01:13

ClivePatrickLyons wrote: ↑16 Feb 2018, 00:58 speed will beat power most of the time and this time will be no different.

groves is fast too, if you meant to suggest that eubanks is the speed and groves is the power

Counter-puncher · Post by **Counter-puncher** » 16 Feb 2018, 05:54

lazboy wrote: ↑15 Feb 2018, 18:42 Although I slightly favour Eubank...because of his style.... His head movement/defence for the jab

This is the first time I have seen anyone suggest Eubank has good head movement

I suspect it's a suggestion that the fight will contradict, to say the least

lazboy · Post by **lazboy** » 16 Feb 2018, 07:06

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑16 Feb 2018, 05:54
lazboy wrote: ↑15 Feb 2018, 18:42 Although I slightly favour Eubank...because of his style.... His head movement/defence for the jab
This is the first time I have seen anyone suggest Eubank has good head movement

I suspect it's a suggestion that the fight will contradict, to say the least

For fk sake if you don’t think his head movement is decent then you’re watching the wrong Eubank. Harlem Eubank?

Counter-puncher · Post by **Counter-puncher** » 16 Feb 2018, 07:42

lazboy wrote: ↑16 Feb 2018, 07:06
Counter-puncher wrote: ↑16 Feb 2018, 05:54
lazboy wrote: ↑15 Feb 2018, 18:42 Although I slightly favour Eubank...because of his style.... His head movement/defence for the jab
This is the first time I have seen anyone suggest Eubank has good head movement

I suspect it's a suggestion that the fight will contradict, to say the least
For fk sake if you don’t think his head movement is decent then you’re watching the wrong Eubank. Harlem Eubank?

Next you'll be telling me he never squares up, never lunges over his front foot, and has delicate, precise, neat footwork and perfect balance

I love the Yildrim KO too bro, but 10 consecutive wide hooks, chin in the air the whole time (actually he got clipped a couple of times there) tells you all you should need to know about his head movement. He sometimes moves his head when on the outside but completely forgets it almost every time he thinks about letting shots go

I don't think I'd even call his head movement average

danconnollyeire · Post by **danconnollyeire** » 16 Feb 2018, 09:21

SenorPipino wrote: ↑15 Feb 2018, 14:29 I gave Groves a 7. Obvious power.

But he really hadn't turned the KO trick against the true world class fighters so I can't go higher.

I 'd be stunned if Groves was able to stop Eubank. His history just doesn't suggest it even if he is the naturally bigger man.

Nobody asked me but I'd give Eubank a 6.5.

WTF? If Eubank is 6.5, Groves is 20. The only fighter to give Froch spaghetti legs ever (Taylor was a flash KD)

Groves hits like a mule

danconnollyeire · Post by **danconnollyeire** » 16 Feb 2018, 09:25

lazboy wrote: ↑15 Feb 2018, 18:42 Yes very good jab, good hand speed, power and long limbs that he throws awkwardly at times in close that sort of wrap around opponents. Although I slightly favour Eubank...because of his style.... His head movement/defence for the jab, his willingness to be close, his stamina...I still think this is a 50/50 fight and hopefully will be exciting to watch.

Eh? His head movement is poor

danconnollyeire · Post by **danconnollyeire** » 16 Feb 2018, 09:26

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑16 Feb 2018, 05:54
lazboy wrote: ↑15 Feb 2018, 18:42 Although I slightly favour Eubank...because of his style.... His head movement/defence for the jab
This is the first time I have seen anyone suggest Eubank has good head movement

I suspect it's a suggestion that the fight will contradict, to say the least

Beat me to it lol... WTF?

vidal · Post by **vidal** » 16 Feb 2018, 09:37

Groves has naturally heavy hands and excellent timing. I expect he'll catch Jnr at some point and It'll be a very interesting fight thereafter.

I can't wait.

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 16 Feb 2018, 13:26

Opening this topic, I had not enough time to write my opinion.
So, I gave him 8/10, there are not many fighters capable to make an extremely tough dude (Froch) dance like Amir Khan.

I can not wait tomorrow. I expect a very competitive fight, Groves is stronger one and Eubank is more skillful, end everything is possible. BTW, Eubank's punching power is 6/10 at SMW, but his skill-set is 9/10 (this is only my personal evaluation).

SenorPipino · Post by **SenorPipino** » 16 Feb 2018, 14:31

danconnollyeire wrote: ↑16 Feb 2018, 09:21
SenorPipino wrote: ↑15 Feb 2018, 14:29 I gave Groves a 7. Obvious power.

But he really hadn't turned the KO trick against the true world class fighters so I can't go higher.

I 'd be stunned if Groves was able to stop Eubank. His history just doesn't suggest it even if he is the naturally bigger man.

Nobody asked me but I'd give Eubank a 6.5.
WTF? If Eubank is 6.5, Groves is 20. The only fighter to give Froch spaghetti legs ever (Taylor was a flash KD)

Groves hits like a mule

I suspect that mule will be put to pasture tomorrow.

And if it's Eubank who turns the KO trick, maybe you'll rethink your rating system.