Vitali Klitschko vs Chris Byrd

[Boxing Writer]

so (judging from facial expressions) in which round do y'all think Vitali Klitschko tore his rotator cuff ?
( or maybe tore i even more then when he entered the ring).
( note-watch it again with the sound off like you were watching a Charlie Chaplin movie for maxium effect).

Klitschko himself said he torn it in round 3.

[Caractacus]

see if you can spot which punch in round three that he may have torn his rotater cuff.
( how about at 15:50 when he sort of does a re-flexive back-hand ?)

[jamamb]

i had it 6-3 vitali. he was clearly ahead by several rounds, though imo if bryd won all the remaining rounds it wouldve been a draw. some guy on here who seethes with rage for the klits had bryd winning and that to me is just absurd. good sign to know that someone isnt exactly fair to vit, and i say that as someone who probably critical enough of vit to be deemed a 'hater'

so he had the injury from the third and then decided to wait all the way until the 10th when he has a big lead to play the 'dont want to aggravate it' game? just seems strange. he couldve not thrown any punches with it for the rest of the fight and probably wouldve still won.

to me thats just not the stuff of a hard man fighter, even if for the average person thats a very painful injury

[Caractacus]

Perhaps from rounds three to nine he was thinking as a "Warrior",
then when round 10 came his cool,calm,collected compasionate and analytical mind as a "Doctor" kicked in
and it would be wise not to jeporodise the rest of his promising boxing career?

[jamamb]

just seems strange to fight with it injured for that long, build a big lead (surely at home with how the fight generally went in his favour his side mustve felt he was officially ahead), and then quit when you only have three rounds left and could probably win without throwing another punch with that hand

i mean ya it probably was bad pain for a normal person, but bad pain is par for the course in boxing. i just cant buy that it wasnt quit job that showed a lack of fighting toughness. and if it was all about perserving himself it still seems strange to me.

[Boxing Writer]

just seems strange to fight with it injured for that long, build a big lead (surely at home with how the fight generally went in his favour his side mustve felt he was officially ahead), and then quit when you only have three rounds left and could probably win without throwing another punch with that hand

i mean ya it probably was bad pain for a normal person, but bad pain is par for the course in boxing. i just cant buy that it wasnt quit job that showed a lack of fighting toughness.

Obviously injury got worsened from round 3 to round 9

[jamamb]

true, but still its a decision i think i would be very frustrated with if i were in vits corner or were a fan of his. id think he had enough and bryd lacked power enough that it was a type of fight vitali still wouldve won just using one arm those last rounds if hed continued

instead he took an L that was a big blight on his heart for a while and still gets held against him today

i will say though that i think the ppl discussing this fight are very much a certain sub type of hardcore fan. the 'general' boxing fans and even most 'experts' seem to have forgotten. dude made it easily into the hof first ballot when imo he wasnt deserving at all, with his best wins being guys like hide and sanders and peter. he gets talked up like a terminator who just would keep fighting through anything and break pretty much anyones will.

[Ambling Alp II]

There is virtually no evidence that his shoulder was already hurt in round three. In fact he threw more punches in round 8 than in any other round. It wasn't until after the 8th round that there was an mention of him being injured, and remember they had an interpreter in his corner between rounds.

The announcers were stunned that he quit. He never seemed injured at all. He only had three more rounds to go.
It was a terrible fight. Byrd didn't look that good either. I had Byrd up 5-4; my friend watching it with me had Klitschko up by one round. I remember us laughing when they were punching each other's gloves early in the fight.
For what it's worth, the compubox numbers were close.

I guess for the most part I am with jamamb. This fight should hurt his all time standing greatly. He may be the most overrated fighter of all time. It's unbelievable the excuses people make for this guy.

Maybe the question we should really be asking is why did he really quit? It seems quite possible that he thought the fight was close and that he was too tired to pull it out. Maybe if he knew that the judges were going to save him he would have continued.

[Caractacus]

see if you can spot which punch in round three that he may have torn his rotater cuff.
( how about at 15:50 when he sort of does a re-flexive back-hand ?)

Vitali Klitschko looks to roll his shoulder a little as if there was something wrong with it with that
awkward blocking motion he did with his left arm a couple seconds earlier.

[Caractacus]

Sonny Liston hurt his shoulder (His doctor said later he had torn separated muscle fibers just a few inches below on his bicep causing some hemorraging)in the first round with the fight with Cassius Clay Feb.24.1964,
yet he went another five rounds with the injury,(although it must have gotten progressivly worse of course)
when he got back to his corner after the sixth round he told his corner "I can't lift my arm"
Too bad HBO went to a commercial after round three going into round four,
maybe we would have gotten a better idea what when on in Vitali Klitschko's corner,if he said anything about it)..

[Ambling Alp II]

And hardly anyone believed Liston's shoulder injury was real either. Not had to find a doctor to will say it was. He was using it all the way to the end of the last round. Witnesses saw him throw a chair in the locker room after the fight.
Even if an injury is real, it's usually hard to tell when it happened. You are seeing things that aren't there with Klitschko.
Klitschko didn't even have to use his shoulder to last the remaining three rounds. He chose to quit.

[Caractacus]

And hardly anyone believed Liston's shoulder injury was real either. Not had to find a doctor to will say it was. He was using it all the way to the end of the last round. Witnesses saw him throw a chair in the locker room after the fight.
Even if an injury is real, it's usually hard to tell when it happened. You are seeing things that aren't there with Klitschko.
Klitschko didn't even have to use his shoulder to last the remaining three rounds. He chose to quit.

Next week is the 55th anniversey of the fight so I'm going to save my response until then.
Now Back to Vitali Klitschko and Chris Byrd.

[BoxBuzz]

The ability for a superiorly gifted boxer to "work" the more frankensteinish opponent into a situation where they injure themselves by "chasing the rabbit" is a very clever and unfair ploy. It's just not cricket and exploits the weakness of the opponent. Perhaps both Sonny and Vitali should have been given a "handicap advantage" based on their lumbering ways.

When a faster and more dexterous fighter allows a clumsier opponent to wear himself out or injure himself by "working them too hard"....well.....it's just not fair.

The outcomes of those fights should be reversed.

[BitPlayer]

The ability for a superiorly gifted boxer to "work" the more frankensteinish opponent into a situation where they injure themselves by "chasing the rabbit" is a very clever and unfair ploy. It's just not cricket and exploits the weakness of the opponent. Perhaps both Sonny and Vitali should have been given a "handicap advantage" based on their lumbering ways.

When a faster and more dexterous fighter allows a clumsier opponent to wear himself out or injure himself by "working them too hard"....well.....it's just not fair.

The outcomes of those fights should be reversed.

Agreed the only legitimate way to win is to stand in the middle of the ring swinging like a drunkard until one of you can't.

[Caractacus]

Whenever I hear this song on the radio (which isn't too often) I think of Vitali Klitschko and this partiucular fight.

[Boxing Writer]

I think Byrd's win over Klitschko is as legitimate as Lewis' one. In fact, Vitali himself didn't even want to continue the fight against Byrd (unlike in the fight against Lennox). And Vitali had a rematch clause in contract with Byrd which he prefered not to exploit.

[Boxing Writer]

I think Byrd's win over Klitschko is as legitimate as Lewis' one. In fact, Vitali himself didn't even want to continue the fight against Byrd (unlike in the fight against Lennox). And Vitali had a rematch clause in contract with Byrd which he prefered not to exploit.

So you are claiming 30 year old Byrd's win over Vitali through an injury NOT inflicted by said Byrd, is just as legitimate as a 38 year old Lewis forcing a stoppage by turning Vitali's face into pizza, with punches?

Yes. I don't believe in 'luck' in boxing. Look, Vitali did get an injury either by missing with his own punch or when Byrd landed a punch to his shoulder. So it's his fault and Byrd's merit. Now, if he was injured by a fan-man's parachute, that would be a bad luck.

Legitimate in not the same as impressive. Lets compare Lewis' wins over Billups (points win over journeyman) and Ruddock (KTFO win over top-contender). Wich win is more impressive? Ruddock, no doubt. But both wins are equally legitimate.

[Boxing Writer]

So you are claiming 30 year old Byrd's win over Vitali through an injury NOT inflicted by said Byrd, is just as legitimate as a 38 year old Lewis forcing a stoppage by turning Vitali's face into pizza, with punches?

Yes. I don't believe in 'luck' in boxing. Look, Vitali did get an injury either by missing with his own punch or when Byrd landed a punch to his shoulder. So it's his fault and Byrd's merit. Now, if he was injured by a fan-man's parachute, that would be a bad luck.

Legitimate in not the same as impressive. Lets compare Lewis' wins over Billups (points win over journeyman) and Ruddock (KTFO win over top-contender). Wich win is more impressive? Ruddock, no doubt. But both wins are equally legitimate.

So now you are moving the goalposts from " legitimate " to " impressive. " Byrds win over Vitali doesn't qualify as comparable with Lewis's in eithers adjective sense.

It's definitely equally legitimate.

[BitPlayer]

and here is Vitali getting cut to shreds, but apparently wanting to carry on until the death v Lewis.

It definitely comes over as posturing after it was already stopped.