Did the EXPLOITATION of Ali "kill" boxing?

[silkov]

films yes Elvis would have done better, But Parker as much as I detest the guy was a world class deal maker....not much short of P.T. Barnum. He provided the catalyst and without that catalyst Elvis would never have made it to "critical mass". Your right though Elvis would have been even bigger if he would have stepped out of the way later on.

But without Parker....there would have been no "way" to step out of.

Bit of a vicious circle on that one.

Elvis never even toured Europe because Parker was an illegal immigrant or something shady and was scared stiff of leaving the country. Not allowing a sensation like Elvis to tour Europe is hardly making the most of him... Elvis missed out on a fortune there and instead spent years singing away in LasVegas... no wonder he ended up a drug addled wreck...
Parker didn't let Elvis take a lead part in a number of films which turned out to be big hits... one was 'A star is born' I think... which made Kris Kistoffoson a film star instead....

Some truth to that....Elvis never performed to anyone but the troops while in Germany....but some say it was because of personal humility.

It was because Parker was an illegal immigrant and was petrified of leaving the country... there were also rumours that he was a war crinimal and this was why he didn't want to leave the country....
amongst Elivis's biggest regrets was that he couldn't tour out of America and the way his film career went....
Parker may have been good for Elvis early on but after the late 50s he basically ruined Elvis...

[silkov]

Don't get "trained singer" mixed up with "great voice" It was Elvis's pipes not his training...though he was not a terrible singer it was the sound of his pipes that was unique.


This fella on American Idol named Elliot has one of the best trained voices you'll ever hear in a lifetime. But not likely to win cause he has bad teeth.......Video killed the radio star.....

You can't train someone to be a great singer... you can train the voice to do lots of thing but if the person can't put that something else into it then its like toweling yourself off in a full bath... a lot of the time 'training' your voice can ruin you as a singer...

[The Great John L]

Your having a laugh... Timberlake is just a limp wristed joke... if ever a 'star' was manufactured it was Timberlake... the guys not fit to wear Elvis's socks...

But Justin’s had all the advantages of modern training and technology. Elvis was nothing but a drug laced caveman who could never compete with modern stars.

Modern training to do what?... dance like a fairy while wearing a microphone on his head?... Elvis was a real singer... its ridiculous to compare the two... Timberlakes voice is nothing, while Elvis had one of the best voices of any singer ever....
Timberlake will be chip paper in a few years time, while Elvis will still be talked about and listened to in 100 years...

This was sarcasm directed at posters who often say similar things about the pioneers of gloved boxing.

[silkov]

But Justin’s had all the advantages of modern training and technology. Elvis was nothing but a drug laced caveman who could never compete with modern stars.

Modern training to do what?... dance like a fairy while wearing a microphone on his head?... Elvis was a real singer... its ridiculous to compare the two... Timberlakes voice is nothing, while Elvis had one of the best voices of any singer ever....
Timberlake will be chip paper in a few years time, while Elvis will still be talked about and listened to in 100 years...

This was sarcasm directed at posters who often say similar things about the pioneers of gloved boxing.

8) 8) 8) very amusing!

[Manos de Oro]

I was just reading an article in a Scottish newspaper, when once again the "reality of the state" of boxing quickly comes to life...

Jim, as you know, I was doing research on the career of Jackie Paterson (et al.) on microfilm some months ago. I kid you not: the last day I was in there, at the end of Autumn, I was reading the build up to a fight - thought it was Mustafa but I checked and think now it was Brady III - and the weather, accompanying news stories (particularly the tidbits), profile photos, etc... all suddenly didn't seem so far away -- tiny domestic strips you could cut/paste, literally, into today's Evening Times; headshots of charistmatic Glaswegian's you could step away from the machine, walk outside and see in real life; and the weather, this is the crunch, the weather on the day of the weigh-in was exactly the same as how it was that day: pavements coated with ice, chill air, zero humidity with the sense of vitality you get in Glasgow even on the coldest, most barren days. I thought about Old Firm days as I read teams of fans cramming out the Apollo on Renfield Street and heading on to Mount Florida.... in thunder and lightening, in torrential rain, to this promoter's first show in the city... 40,000 of them to watch two bantamweights fight for the Commonwealth title, in a British title eliminator. Two guys who were apiece coming off a defeat and a draw, both to today what would be termed 'questionable opposition'. People nowadays don't have a fuckin clue.

What an experience, then, for boxer and fan - real fan. There still are plenty of 'real' fans up here, of course. Only need to look at how many Ricky Burns brought to the Arthur fight, and how many booed at the Harrison - Kebede farce - not counting those who boycotted it, such as myself.

A bantamweight holding the Commonwealth today can expect to contest in a black curtained leisure centre against a Ghanian competitive 'opponent'. He'll take home a fairer wedge, but at what cost?

[theone]

The Beatles were controlled just as much by Epstien, they were told how to dress, what to say, everything... so they wrote a few songs!.

Early in thier career he did it terms of how they presented themselves. But Epstein had almost no imput when it came to the group creatively. Poducer George Martin assisted the Beatles evolve their sound technically. Martin had never produced a rock band before and learned as much from the beatles as he taught them.

so they wrote a few songs!... 'I want to hold your hand' etc...

They also wrote Strawberry fields,Across the universe, in my life,Tomorrow never knows, Hey Jude,Lucy in the sky with diamonds,Helter Skelter and a host of other classics the quality of which no Elvis song approaches.

Elvis combined country and R&B in a way no one had before. He did something revolutionary. The Beatles were just a pop group. A good pop group, but a pop group. All their psychadelic crap they copied from Ken Kesey.

Elvis didnt revoluntionize the music he popularized it. The Beatles were alot more than just a pop group. Critically and financially they are the greatest pop group of all time. And so what if they were pop? What was Elvis? Hound dog, Love me tender, Jail house rock, and hunk a hunk a burning love arent pop songs?
The big difference between them was that Elvis couldnt evolve and became a caraciture of himself late in his career.
The sgt Peppers album is a great example of thier versitility. Traditional rock is(sgt pepper intro and reprise) with psychdelic music(lucy in the sky with diamonds) indian music(within you,without you)showtunes(when Im sixty four) and music that belies description(a day in the life.)
The Beatles didnt copy anything from Ken Kesey. They adapted their music to the times that all.

Buddy Holly was far more revolutionary than the Beatles and he wrote his own songs too... plus they were good songs!...

Holly was an early influence on the Beatles but their sound was different and in time they surpassed thier hero in impact and quality.
The Beatles revolutionlized the way albums were created and marketed. The Beatles were early pioneers of music videos and lead the way for a host of british bands who took rock n roll to a level no american band or artist could have.

[The Great John L]

The Beatles revolutionlized the way albums were created and marketed. The Beatles were early pioneers of music videos and lead the way for a host of british bands who took rock n roll to a level no american band or artist could have.

Wow, I actually find myself agreeing with one of your posts. I would have never believed that was possible. Oh wait… it wasn’t about boxing. That explains it.

[theone]

Wow, I actually find myself agreeing with one of your posts. I would have never believed that was possible. Oh wait… it wasn’t about boxing. That explains it.

Naw, we've agreed on a few post before. It might take you a few days to go back and find them, but trust me its there.

[surf-bat]

Buddy Holly was more revolutionary then the Beatles?? Boy, now I've heard it all......

[ebeneezer]

Roy Orbison was a better singer and songwriter than Elvis and the Beatles put together.

[theone]

Roy Orbison was a better singer and songwriter than Elvis and the Beatles put together.

Better singer than all of them? Respectable opinion. I might agree. Better songwriter? Elvis and Ringo definitely. Mccartney and Harrison arguably. Definitely on their level. Lennon, absolutely not. In terms of pop and rock songwriting; I dont think anyone matches Lennon or Dylan.

[surf-bat]

Roy Orbison was a better singer and songwriter than Elvis and the Beatles put together.

The Beatles changed music in ways that Elvis and Roy Orbison never could. Their impact is immeasurable.

[kick asner]

Roy Orbison was a better singer and songwriter than Elvis and the Beatles put together.

Elvis would agree with that, as he once had the question posed to him, I am paraphrasing, Elvis, you have everything fame, money, is their anything you would wish for that you don't already have. His answer was to be able to sing like Roy Orbison.

[kick asner]

Arguably the best voice of that era was Sam Cooke. He possesed a personal style that few have eqauled, plus he sang rock and balleds with an eqaul amount of soul. Also wrote alot of his material.

I would say the african american influence at that time was profound. Just look at all of the great preformers of that era. Muddy Waters, Little Richard, Howlin Wolf, The Temptations, Smokey Robinson, The Four Tops, Otis Redding, Marvin Gaye, Al Green, John Lee Hooker, Chuck Berry, Jackie Wilson. And later on guys like Bill Withers, Hendrix, Albert Collins, and Sly Stone. Or Robert Johnson if you go way back.

Ray Manzerek of The Doors once said without the black artist to light the way white people would still be square dancing.

[SteveO]

Two John Lennon quotes:
"Before Elvis, there was nothing"
"Without Elvis, there wouldn't have been the Beatles"