The 'draw' option in polls on the forum

[candyslim]

In polls on the forum there is invariably an option to choose 'draw'. Of course draws happen regularly in boxing but statistically I'm sure their occurrence is rare compared to a win for either boxer by stoppage or decision. Being someone of quite a literal frame of mind, I never use that 'draw' option when I vote, Draws happen but they are almost never the anticipated result.

Would it not be better in all polls to substitute 'draw' with 'too close to call' or 'undecided' for example ? I'm not slow to voice my opinion when I have one, but I'm often in the situation when I haven't a clue who's going to win. That's how I like it - those are by far my favourite fights, at least until the fight gets underway and often turns out to be a disappointment of course. I'm sure that's true of most of us if not all.

Maybe some of us already use the 'draw' option to express their opinion that the result could go either way? Maybe I'm missing the point and that the forum takes the American viewpoint that a 'tie' is best avoided in sports, and to encourage voters not to sit on the fence?

What do you think?

[Ruthless-RKO]

In polls on the forum there is invariably an option to choose 'draw'. Of course draws happen regularly in boxing but statistically I'm sure their occurrence is rare compared to a win for either boxer by stoppage or decision. Being someone of quite a literal frame of mind, I never use that 'draw' option when I vote, Draws happen but they are almost never the anticipated result.

Would it not be better in all polls to substitute 'draw' with 'too close to call' or 'undecided' for example ? I'm not slow to voice my opinion when I have one, but I'm often in the situation when I haven't a clue who's going to win. That's how I like it - those are by far my favourite fights, at least until the fight gets underway and often turns out to be a disappointment of course. I'm sure that's true of most of us if not all.

Maybe some of us already use the 'draw' option to express their opinion that the result could go either way? Maybe I'm missing the point and that the forum takes the American viewpoint that a 'tie' is best avoided in sports, and to encourage voters not to sit on the fence?

What do you think?

Could be an idea. But then 'Draw' is kinda like 'too close to call''

[candyslim]

That's my point. If people use it like it means 'too close to call' why not call it that? Voting for 'draw' just doesn't sit right with me.

[siablo14]

In polls on the forum there is invariably an option to choose 'draw'. Of course draws happen regularly in boxing but statistically I'm sure their occurrence is rare compared to a win for either boxer by stoppage or decision. Being someone of quite a literal frame of mind, I never use that 'draw' option when I vote, Draws happen but they are almost never the anticipated result.

Would it not be better in all polls to substitute 'draw' with 'too close to call' or 'undecided' for example ? I'm not slow to voice my opinion when I have one, but I'm often in the situation when I haven't a clue who's going to win. That's how I like it - those are by far my favourite fights, at least until the fight gets underway and often turns out to be a disappointment of course. I'm sure that's true of most of us if not all.

Maybe some of us already use the 'draw' option to express their opinion that the result could go either way? Maybe I'm missing the point and that the forum takes the American viewpoint that a 'tie' is best avoided in sports, and to encourage voters not to sit on the fence?

What do you think?

Sir, it ain't that serious!

[Ruthless-RKO]

That's my point. If people use it like it means 'too close to call' why not call it that? Voting for 'draw' just doesn't sit right with me.

I think you're over-thinking it. If you vote 'draw' I think the majority on here would know that 'such a person is undecided'..

[Thomastearns]

We could eliminate most 'draws' altogether if we let CompuBox or similar decide the result when the judges can't.

There could be a set figure, say 10% difference in more punches landed, to settle the result. Any less than 10% and we can all happily agree that it was a draw.

With even rounds, 12 instead of 15, it probably does increase the chances of a draw. This is an issue in boxing, especially in high profile fights.

I don't like voting for draws and generally dislike them in any sport. Chess is especially riddled with them, and fans often get the feeling that the players aren't trying to win.

[wesshaw1985]

I don't like including it but people tend to complain if its not included.
I prefer the gun to head style of picking, no fence sitting.
Everybody leans one way or the other at least 51/49...

[candyslim]

@siablo This is boxing forum. Excepting the tragedies it generally isn't that serious. Does it have to be serious before we can discuss something?

I'm sure you're right Ruthless, Funny you should say I'm overthinking it. My wife would say I don't do enough thinking

It's extremely small margins in chess at the top level Thomas as I'm sure you know. Having the black pieces (i.e. always being a move behind) means drawing can sometimes be good. A bit like an away draw in football (soccer)

Not remotely intended to be disrespectful Wes but are you American by any chance? Brits tend to be much more appreciative of the draw, whether that's a good or a bad thing.

[ValMar]

Sometimes, corrupted /greedy promoters need the draw, in order to make "the big money" at rematch.

[candyslim]

I guess it's better to be the victim of a dodgy draw than a dodgy defeat, wouldn't you agree Gennady?

[siablo14]

We could eliminate most 'draws' altogether if we let CompuBox or similar decide the result when the judges can't.

There could be a set figure, say 10% difference in more punches landed, to settle the result. Any less than 10% and we can all happily agree that it was a draw.

With even rounds, 12 instead of 15, it probably does increase the chances of a draw. This is an issue in boxing, especially in high profile fights.

I don't like voting for draws and generally dislike them in any sport. Chess is especially riddled with them, and fans often get the feeling that the players aren't trying to win.

Yeah man, Basketball you play until there is a winner and that's very thrilling.
In boxing if there is a draw, they should fight a next round to resolve it.

Teams playing for a draw in test cricket is what has slowly killed interest in that format of cricket.

[siablo14]

@siablo This is boxing forum. Excepting the tragedies it generally isn't that serious. Does it have to be serious before we can discuss something?

I'm sure you're right Ruthless, Funny you should say I'm overthinking it. My wife would say I don't do enough thinking

It's extremely small margins in chess at the top level Thomas as I'm sure you know. Having the black pieces (i.e. always being a move behind) means drawing can sometimes be good. A bit like an away draw in football (soccer)

Not remotely intended to be disrespectful Wes but are you American by any chance? Brits tend to be much more appreciative of the draw, whether that's a good or a bad thing.

Saying "draw" or "too close to call?" Yeah man, it aint that serious.

[siablo14]

@siablo This is boxing forum. Excepting the tragedies it generally isn't that serious. Does it have to be serious before we can discuss something?

I'm sure you're right Ruthless, Funny you should say I'm overthinking it. My wife would say I don't do enough thinking

It's extremely small margins in chess at the top level Thomas as I'm sure you know. Having the black pieces (i.e. always being a move behind) means drawing can sometimes be good. A bit like an away draw in football (soccer)

Not remotely intended to be disrespectful Wes but are you American by any chance? Brits tend to be much more appreciative of the draw, whether that's a good or a bad thing.

Saying "draw" or "too close to call?" Yeah man, it aint that serious.

But that draw leads to somewhere but when a draw happens in a friendly, you feel cheated.

[wesshaw1985]

Not remotely intended to be disrespectful Wes but are you American by any chance? Brits tend to be much more appreciative of the draw, whether that's a good or a bad thing.

I'm a Brit.
I don't mind seeing a deserved draw but when choosing an outcome I always tend to lean one way or the other, never a draw...

[candyslim]

Yes Siablo I can be a bit of a pedant, I recognize that.

Fair play Wes. I'm often very certain about who wins and I say so (not always right, mind) but when I genuinely can't decide, I think I'd be resentful of being forced to toss a coin. That's just me.

[gilgamesh]

That's my point. If people use it like it means 'too close to call' why not call it that? Voting for 'draw' just doesn't sit right with me.

It's pretty rare, but there have been at least a few instances where I believed the result may well be a draw, and picked the fight that way.

[Thomastearns]

In tonight's Super Six semi final matchup between Callum Smith and Nieky Holzken there can't be a draw according to the WBSS rules. They seem to have to gone to great lengths to avoid that possibility and are taking no chances.

[What happens if the fight ends in a draw?

The organisers state: “In the case of an Ali Trophy bout ending in a draw on the three official judges’ scorecards, or ends as a no contest or no decision and the official mas-ter-scorecard, containing the three official judges scores does not determine a winner, the scorecard of the fourth judge will be added to the master-score-card to determine who advances to the next round of the tournament, or wins the Muhammad Ali Trophy.

“If two of the now four judges score the bout in favour of one Boxer A, and at least one of the other two of the four judges score the bout a draw, such result shall be considered that Boxer A shall advance to the next round of the tournament.”

But should the bout STILL remain a draw after adding the fourth judges scorecards to the master-scorecard result then the ‘Count Back’ method will be used.

Organisers continue: “The Count Back method is a ‘sudden death’ method of scoring using the three official judges’ scorecards to determine who advances. Beginning with the scorecards for the 12th or last round that occurred, the boxer who won that particular round on at least a majority of the three scorecards will advance.

“If the bout was scored evenly in the 12th round or the last round that occurred, the advancing boxer will then be determined by who won at least a majority of rounds in the preceding round.

“If neither boxer won the next to the last round on at last on a majority of the three official judge’s scorecards, each preceding rounds scorecards will be examined until a round where one boxer was declared the winner of that round on at least the majority of the three officials’ scorecards.”]

The 'tradition' of awarding the fight to whoever finishes better will be upheld.

[candyslim]

That's my point. If people use it like it means 'too close to call' why not call it that? Voting for 'draw' just doesn't sit right with me.

It's pretty rare, but there have been at least a few instances where I believed the result may well be a draw, and picked the fight that way.

Yeah? Were you right?

[BitPlayer]

I think draw means too close to call.

[siablo14]

In tonight's Super Six semi final matchup between Callum Smith and Nieky Holzken there can't be a draw according to the WBSS rules. They seem to have to gone to great lengths to avoid that possibility and are taking no chances.

[What happens if the fight ends in a draw?

The organisers state: “In the case of an Ali Trophy bout ending in a draw on the three official judges’ scorecards, or ends as a no contest or no decision and the official mas-ter-scorecard, containing the three official judges scores does not determine a winner, the scorecard of the fourth judge will be added to the master-score-card to determine who advances to the next round of the tournament, or wins the Muhammad Ali Trophy.

“If two of the now four judges score the bout in favour of one Boxer A, and at least one of the other two of the four judges score the bout a draw, such result shall be considered that Boxer A shall advance to the next round of the tournament.”

But should the bout STILL remain a draw after adding the fourth judges scorecards to the master-scorecard result then the ‘Count Back’ method will be used.

Organisers continue: “The Count Back method is a ‘sudden death’ method of scoring using the three official judges’ scorecards to determine who advances. Beginning with the scorecards for the 12th or last round that occurred, the boxer who won that particular round on at least a majority of the three scorecards will advance.

“If the bout was scored evenly in the 12th round or the last round that occurred, the advancing boxer will then be determined by who won at least a majority of rounds in the preceding round.

“If neither boxer won the next to the last round on at last on a majority of the three official judge’s scorecards, each preceding rounds scorecards will be examined until a round where one boxer was declared the winner of that round on at least the majority of the three officials’ scorecards.”]

The 'tradition' of awarding the fight to whoever finishes better will be upheld.

Good to hear!

[squiggy]

We could eliminate most 'draws' altogether if we let CompuBox or similar decide the result when the judges can't.

There could be a set figure, say 10% difference in more punches landed, to settle the result. Any less than 10% and we can all happily agree that it was a draw.

With even rounds, 12 instead of 15, it probably does increase the chances of a draw. This is an issue in boxing, especially in high profile fights.

I don't like voting for draws and generally dislike them in any sport. Chess is especially riddled with them, and fans often get the feeling that the players aren't trying to win.

Yeah man, Basketball you play until there is a winner and that's very thrilling.
In boxing if there is a draw, they should fight a next round to resolve it.

Teams playing for a draw in test cricket is what has slowly killed interest in that format of cricket.

If everyone involved took seriously the idea of tabulating the score quickly after the 12th, personally I'd like the idea of announcing the necessity of a 13th in the case of a draw. More satisfying, I think, to just make one of the two guys go out and claim a win.

[jamamb]

draws dont bother me when there justified tbh

watch there just be more calls of robbery with bad 4th judges and extra round scores.

[siablo14]

draws dont bother me when there justified tbh

watch there just be more calls of robbery with bad 4th judges and extra round scores.

So how would you fix it?

[jamamb]

i dont mind draws being possible. last week lowe vs walsh for example i thought a draw was the fitting result

having an extra judge or something then giving the win to a guy who has 2 votes out of 4 is hardly convincing. of course its even less convincing if that judge was forced to pick a winner, because maybe he thought there wasnt anything in it really and so sort of just arbitrarily goes for a guy

[gilgamesh]

That's my point. If people use it like it means 'too close to call' why not call it that? Voting for 'draw' just doesn't sit right with me.

It's pretty rare, but there have been at least a few instances where I believed the result may well be a draw, and picked the fight that way.

Yeah? Were you right?

No, but I came awful close here recently. I picked a draw, and a guy wound up winning a Majority Decision. So I had the draw on one scorecard. I forget the fight actually. It wasn't long ago. I'd have to track down in the TTR challenge what the fight was.

I kinda called the Jermain Taylor vs Winky Wright fight years ago. I wrote a letter to Ring Magazine where I was saying they seemed evenly matched to me a month or two before the fight.