Tarver 'i am a living legend'

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 19 Apr 2006, 04:05

was leafing through boxing news at whsmith yesterday

tarver, after saying the cotto fight that happens on the same night as Tarver-Hopkins is down to 'racism', also called himself a "living legend"

does anyone on here feel the same way? he's certainly taken on a lot of good fighters, but doesn't Tarver need to rattle off some more big wins before considering such a comment.

he says he's going after Calzaghe and O'Neil Bell afterward. I suppose if he beat those two he would go down as a great, but I don't think he can beat either.

as it stands, he's had mixed results at the top level, vs Harding, Jones and Johnson. that's solid enough, but i think he really needs to build something big on top of this

i don't think his style helps. he's hard to beat but so ungainly and at times sloppy. he does talk a lot of trash. i remember when Rocchi was doing his lawsuit against the WBC, Tarver said to show the sanctioning body's sanctity he'd give Rochi a shot! Graciano was not only well shot, but had had only 3 fights in 5 years!!!

thunderfromdownunder · Post by **thunderfromdownunder** » 19 Apr 2006, 05:34

living legend

tarver hasnt really proven shit to me, aside from glen johson he has beaten no-ones or once great over the hill fighters. the fight with Hopkins is an absoulote joke, and i for one am really suprised hopkins took it in the first place.

if he wants to be remembrd as a great ligh-heavy, he should use what little time he has left to beat the best at 175

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 19 Apr 2006, 05:41

Replace the letters 'Leg' with 'Knob' and I think this is more accurate.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 19 Apr 2006, 06:16

Prior to Tarver RJJ was P4P no1, prior to Taylor Bhops was P4P no1 - and some (not me) had him winning twice. Tarvers actually older than RJJ too (although boxing age is different).

So hes achieved allot, living legend no, but hes achieved more than Hatton, Corrales, Castillo, Calazage, Taylor and all those other fighters who get more respect.

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 19 Apr 2006, 06:35

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Replace the letters 'Leg' with 'Knob' and I think this is more accurate.

Hahaha

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 19 Apr 2006, 06:35

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Prior to Tarver RJJ was P4P no1, prior to Taylor Bhops was P4P no1 - and some (not me) had him winning twice. Tarvers actually older than RJJ too (although boxing age is different).

So hes achieved allot, living legend no, but hes achieved more than Hatton, Corrales, Castillo, Calazage, Taylor and all those other fighters who get more respect.

Tarver is a good fighter, but he just hasn't got any flair. Also, if he hadn't have lost to modest Eric Harding, he would be perceived as even better now.

BigEars · Post by **BigEars** » 19 Apr 2006, 06:39

I'd actually say he's achieved less than all of those fighters : 2-1 with a shot Roy Jones , 1-1 with Glen Johnson , 1-1 with Eric Harding+ a win over(past it) Reggie Johnson and Montell Griffin is all Tarver's career is .

Tarver is one of the poorest fighters to be the 'best' in his division and is lucky to have the ring belt seeing as Erdei is linear .

He now is facing a great fighter who like Roy Jones when he faught him is past it . But despite that Hopkins could still beat him , I expect Tarver to win but it'll probably be close .

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 19 Apr 2006, 06:57

BigEars wrote:I'd actually say he's achieved less than all of those fighters : 2-1 with a shot Roy Jones , 1-1 with Glen Johnson , 1-1 with Eric Harding+ a win over(past it) Reggie Johnson and Montell Griffin is all Tarver's career is .

Tarver is one of the poorest fighters to be the 'best' in his division and is lucky to have the ring belt seeing as Erdei is linear .

He now is facing a great fighter who like Roy Jones when he faught him is past it . But despite that Hopkins could still beat him , I expect Tarver to win but it'll probably be close .

should he call himself 'The Vulture' instead of the 'Legend Killer'? lol

Tarver-Jones I & III, Tarver v Griffin and Tarver v Glen Johnson II are some of the poorest light heavyweight championship fights I've seen

BigEars · Post by **BigEars** » 19 Apr 2006, 07:00

viciousmaussa wrote:
BigEars wrote:I'd actually say he's achieved less than all of those fighters : 2-1 with a shot Roy Jones , 1-1 with Glen Johnson , 1-1 with Eric Harding+ a win over(past it) Reggie Johnson and Montell Griffin is all Tarver's career is .

Tarver is one of the poorest fighters to be the 'best' in his division and is lucky to have the ring belt seeing as Erdei is linear .

He now is facing a great fighter who like Roy Jones when he faught him is past it . But despite that Hopkins could still beat him , I expect Tarver to win but it'll probably be close .
should he call himself 'The Vulture' instead of the 'Legend Killer'? lol

hehe

, that would be more fitting .

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 19 Apr 2006, 07:12

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Prior to Tarver RJJ was P4P no1, prior to Taylor Bhops was P4P no1 - and some (not me) had him winning twice. Tarvers actually older than RJJ too (although boxing age is different).

So hes achieved allot, living legend no, but hes achieved more than Hatton, Corrales, Castillo, Calazage, Taylor and all those other fighters who get more respect.

Hopkins is a fornicating middleweight though and will be 42 by the time they fight! That's hardly a fornicating legend killer is it.

Let's not forget the fact that he lost to Harding, Jones (should have been a draw) and Johnson.....

Not sure he's achieved more than Castillo, Corralles or Calzaghe.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 19 Apr 2006, 07:29

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Prior to Tarver RJJ was P4P no1, prior to Taylor Bhops was P4P no1 - and some (not me) had him winning twice. Tarvers actually older than RJJ too (although boxing age is different).

So hes achieved allot, living legend no, but hes achieved more than Hatton, Corrales, Castillo, Calazage, Taylor and all those other fighters who get more respect.
Hopkins is a fornicating middleweight though and will be 42 by the time they fight! That's hardly a fornicating legend killer is it.

Let's not forget the fact that he lost to Harding, Jones (should have been a draw) and Johnson.....

Not sure he's achieved more than Castillo, Corralles or Calzaghe.

Tarver's fights with Jones, you can argue, aren't as impressive as Castillo's with Mayweather. Regardless of how anyone scored the Castillo-Mayweather fights (i thought jlc might have nicked the first one), jose luis was giving nearly as good as he was getting for at least 20 rounds of the 24 they had in the ring together.

jlc certainly wasn't outclassed, which mayweather normally did to everyone good (corrales, hernandez, jesus chavez). while tarver's fights with jones are definitely tarnished -how did tarver let jones off the hook in the first fight, jones was there to be taken and tarver did more posing that punching. 2nd fight was impressive ko but the rubber math was a joke matchup to con gullible customers

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 19 Apr 2006, 07:45

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Prior to Tarver RJJ was P4P no1, prior to Taylor Bhops was P4P no1 - and some (not me) had him winning twice. Tarvers actually older than RJJ too (although boxing age is different).

So hes achieved allot, living legend no, but hes achieved more than Hatton, Corrales, Castillo, Calazage, Taylor and all those other fighters who get more respect.
Hopkins is a fornicating middleweight though and will be 42 by the time they fight! That's hardly a fornicating legend killer is it.

Let's not forget the fact that he lost to Harding, Jones (should have been a draw) and Johnson.....

Not sure he's achieved more than Castillo, Corralles or Calzaghe.

I think Hops was 41 in January so he won't be 42. Even though this will be a meaningless boring fight, it'll still be intriguing to watch. Despite the lack of action, there is something about the B-Hops chess-like fights which always keeps me interested. They are usually tense - it's only afterwards that they become fights you don't want to see again.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 19 Apr 2006, 07:51

one thing that irks me is that ppl keep saying how big and strong tarver is. big yes, strong no. this man was backed up and buliied by eric harding, a skilled man who can't punch. chances are he'll be weight drained as well, when he fights Hopkins.

won't be a very good fight. i know they don't like each other - Tarver used to call him the 'Extortionist' and Hopkins pissed AT off by mocking him for his past substance abuse. the way they talk you'd think it'd be a fight, but it will be very uneventful.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 19 Apr 2006, 08:04

viciousmaussa wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:Prior to Tarver RJJ was P4P no1, prior to Taylor Bhops was P4P no1 - and some (not me) had him winning twice. Tarvers actually older than RJJ too (although boxing age is different).

So hes achieved allot, living legend no, but hes achieved more than Hatton, Corrales, Castillo, Calazage, Taylor and all those other fighters who get more respect.
Hopkins is a fornicating middleweight though and will be 42 by the time they fight! That's hardly a fornicating legend killer is it.

Let's not forget the fact that he lost to Harding, Jones (should have been a draw) and Johnson.....

Not sure he's achieved more than Castillo, Corralles or Calzaghe.
Tarver's fights with Jones, you can argue, aren't as impressive as Castillo's with Mayweather. Regardless of how anyone scored the Castillo-Mayweather fights (i thought jlc might have nicked the first one), jose luis was giving nearly as good as he was getting for at least 20 rounds of the 24 they had in the ring together.

jlc certainly wasn't outclassed, which mayweather normally did to everyone good (corrales, hernandez, jesus chavez). while tarver's fights with jones are definitely tarnished -how did tarver let jones off the hook in the first fight, jones was there to be taken and tarver did more posing that punching. 2nd fight was impressive ko but the rubber math was a joke matchup to con gullible customers

Lets look at these criticisms

Hopkins was a middleweight fighting a LHW - SO SRL, HEarns, Trinidad, DLH were all coming up in weight and those are Haglers and BHops biggest fights

Hopkins and RJJ were shot - bullshit, past prime yes, shot not really. Tyszu was just as much if not more past prime (and not as good in the first place), however few here jump on RH for beating him. Tarver was older than RJJ too. Hes fought about 5 top10 LHWs into the bargain and beat every man hes faced.

Tarver isn't my favourate fighter but it seems boxing fans/writers are very hypocritical in their judging of fighters.

JLC losing to PBF is better than beating RJJ - erm NO, and he lost both fights if you know how to score a boxing match (the first as big a margin as the second). Judah did as well against PBF as Castillo did in the first 1. Castillos the most overated in the game he lost to Cassamoya but got a gift, had close 1s with Johnston, cheated against Corrales, could of lost to Lazcano if Lazcano pressed the issue. Ohhh and PBF while very good is highly overated, Chavez won more rounds than Castillo did.

E · Post by E » 19 Apr 2006, 08:07

Tarver is a decent world fighter, no more.

If Tarver was a woman he would screw himself; he loves himself so much.

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 19 Apr 2006, 08:18

The press conferences for these two must be funny. Neither of them ever refer to themselves as "I" or "Me" - it's always "Antonio Tarver this... Bernard Hopkins that......." always in third person. For somebody who had never seen either man before, it would seem as though they are only spokesmen for the fighters!

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 19 Apr 2006, 08:44

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
viciousmaussa wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote: Hopkins is a fornicating middleweight though and will be 42 by the time they fight! That's hardly a fornicating legend killer is it.

Let's not forget the fact that he lost to Harding, Jones (should have been a draw) and Johnson.....

Not sure he's achieved more than Castillo, Corralles or Calzaghe.
Tarver's fights with Jones, you can argue, aren't as impressive as Castillo's with Mayweather. Regardless of how anyone scored the Castillo-Mayweather fights (i thought jlc might have nicked the first one), jose luis was giving nearly as good as he was getting for at least 20 rounds of the 24 they had in the ring together.

jlc certainly wasn't outclassed, which mayweather normally did to everyone good (corrales, hernandez, jesus chavez). while tarver's fights with jones are definitely tarnished -how did tarver let jones off the hook in the first fight, jones was there to be taken and tarver did more posing that punching. 2nd fight was impressive ko but the rubber math was a joke matchup to con gullible customers
Lets look at these criticisms

Hopkins was a middleweight fighting a LHW - SO SRL, HEarns, Trinidad, DLH were all coming up in weight and those are Haglers and BHops biggest fights

Hopkins and RJJ were shot - bullshit, past prime yes, shot not really. Tyszu was just as much if not more past prime (and not as good in the first place), however few here jump on RH for beating him. Tarver was older than RJJ too. Hes fought about 5 top10 LHWs into the bargain and beat every man hes faced.

Tarver isn't my favourate fighter but it seems boxing fans/writers are very hypocritical in their judging of fighters.

JLC losing to PBF is better than beating RJJ - erm NO, and he lost both fights if you know how to score a boxing match (the first as big a margin as the second). Judah did as well against PBF as Castillo did in the first 1. Castillos the most overated in the game he lost to Cassamoya but got a gift, had close 1s with Johnston, cheated against Corrales, could of lost to Lazcano if Lazcano pressed the issue. Ohhh and PBF while very good is highly overated, Chavez won more rounds than Castillo did.

you're talking wank mate, a case can be made that castillo outworked mayweather. if you think the Castillo-Mayweather and Judah-Mayweather are the same you need shock treatment

tszyu was coming off an impressive win over Sharmbah Mitchell when he lost to Hatton. as he got older he became a better, more refined boxer. when jones lost his speed, he was frankly fucked to smeg

castillo: yes he conned corrales into an over the weight non title fight, but what of corrales' cheating? chico asked for it. castillo outworked and wore down cassamayor. do you only score the flashy, cutie pie punches? erm, he could've lost to Lazcano? well he didn't did he? he boxed the man's ears off and carved his face up, winning at least 8 rds to 4. this when Castillo was weight drained and long contemplating moving up to 140.

so what if the Johnston fights were close? do you think Johnston is some bum? Stevie was an excellent fighter. i don't think Castillo won the first one, but I do think he won te 2nd one

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 19 Apr 2006, 08:55

Southpaw Stylist wrote:
Tarver is a good fighter, but he just hasn't got any flair. Also, if he hadn't have lost to modest Eric Harding, he would be perceived as even better now.

Absolutely agree on your latter part.

Tarver's in ring performance (and at the time of quite a dull Light Heavyweight era) haven't really justified a legend tag, although is a decent fight.

There are still some people (myself included) who think Harding deserves a crack at him - they are 1-1 and Harding was outclassing him before he got tagged.

The Montell Griffin performance was his best one, but Montell is a fighter who can be brilliant, and then can be awful the next. Its so hard to predict if Montell is faded - cause he is so inconsistent, just when you right him off... He pops up with a good performance, he was on one of his bad nights vs Tarver.

He is 1-1 vs Johnson, who is tough but still regarded by many as a glorified gate keeper who met Jones at the right time. Not my perception, but the perception of many... Plus the second fight was quite dull in which neither impressed.

Many think that if he was a legend in the making then he wouldn't have needed a rematch to beat the version of Jones he faced in fight 1.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 19 Apr 2006, 09:42

viciousmaussa wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
viciousmaussa wrote: Tarver's fights with Jones, you can argue, aren't as impressive as Castillo's with Mayweather. Regardless of how anyone scored the Castillo-Mayweather fights (i thought jlc might have nicked the first one), jose luis was giving nearly as good as he was getting for at least 20 rounds of the 24 they had in the ring together.

jlc certainly wasn't outclassed, which mayweather normally did to everyone good (corrales, hernandez, jesus chavez). while tarver's fights with jones are definitely tarnished -how did tarver let jones off the hook in the first fight, jones was there to be taken and tarver did more posing that punching. 2nd fight was impressive ko but the rubber math was a joke matchup to con gullible customers
Lets look at these criticisms

Hopkins was a middleweight fighting a LHW - SO SRL, HEarns, Trinidad, DLH were all coming up in weight and those are Haglers and BHops biggest fights

Hopkins and RJJ were shot - bullshit, past prime yes, shot not really. Tyszu was just as much if not more past prime (and not as good in the first place), however few here jump on RH for beating him. Tarver was older than RJJ too. Hes fought about 5 top10 LHWs into the bargain and beat every man hes faced.

Tarver isn't my favourate fighter but it seems boxing fans/writers are very hypocritical in their judging of fighters.

JLC losing to PBF is better than beating RJJ - erm NO, and he lost both fights if you know how to score a boxing match (the first as big a margin as the second). Judah did as well against PBF as Castillo did in the first 1. Castillos the most overated in the game he lost to Cassamoya but got a gift, had close 1s with Johnston, cheated against Corrales, could of lost to Lazcano if Lazcano pressed the issue. Ohhh and PBF while very good is highly overated, Chavez won more rounds than Castillo did.
you're talking wank mate, a case can be made that castillo outworked mayweather. if you think the Castillo-Mayweather and Judah-Mayweather are the same you need shock treatment

tszyu was coming off an impressive win over Sharmbah Mitchell when he lost to Hatton. as he got older he became a better, more refined boxer. when jones lost his speed, he was frankly fucked to smeg

castillo: yes he conned corrales into an over the weight non title fight, but what of corrales' cheating? chico asked for it. castillo outworked and wore down cassamayor. do you only score the flashy, cutie pie punches? erm, he could've lost to Lazcano? well he didn't did he? he boxed the man's ears off and carved his face up, winning at least 8 rds to 4. this when Castillo was weight drained and long contemplating moving up to 140.

so what if the Johnston fights were close? do you think Johnston is some bum? Stevie was an excellent fighter. i don't think Castillo won the first one, but I do think he won te 2nd one

Okay your a Castillo fan and score punches that miss the target. Castillo may have outworked PBF but punches the arms/gloves/shoulder do not score, Castillo won 4-5rounds in eachfight but no more, yes he made PBF look beatable but didn't do any better than the far smaller Chavez. Point is its hardly P4P stuff - Chavez/Judah/Cassa aren't on anyones top10 P4P lists but Castillo is, bollox.

Judah won 2-3 of the first 4 rounds, and he caught PBF square with straight lefts and hurt him more than Castillo ever did. He was outboxing PBF without pressure and beating PBF at his own game early, he made PBF look very ordinary and if he had some workrate and concentration would have pulled out a decision.

Tyszu had lost his stamina/speed and was flatfooted, maybe he was more accurate hes still past prime. Mitchells been proved to be shot anyway (and never that good anyway when he stepped up if you look back at his career), so that win while looking impressive means little. The point is Tarvers 2 wins over Jones is at least as impressive as Hattons win over Tyszu, especially as Hatton wouldn't offer Tyszu a rematch if he wanted 1 - look for the interviews he said as much.

Don't get me wrong Tarvers not a living legend, but hes better P4P than given credit for and a dominant champ, hes goto be above Hatton/Castillo/Corrales/Taylor/Calazage based on accomplishments. Although each can overtake him if they up their comp.

Coconut · Post by **Coconut** » 19 Apr 2006, 10:12

Sorry, Tarver’s significant but he’s not a dominant champion. And realistically his accomplishments are not that great.

In the last three years he’s fought 5 times against the same 2 guys. Now, if the three of them having this little menage-a-trois were head and shoulders above the division then grand but they just aren’t. It’s a closed shop, at least from Tarver’s point of view, that ignores the rest of the world. We’re not talking about a Morales – Barrera – Pacquiao triumvirate here who are head and shoulders over the rest. There’s guys who have earned a shot in the mean time and guys who look decent enough and of the right style to cause any of the ‘big three’ troubles – they’re just not in the US. Briggs, Adamek, Green, Woods, even Tiozzo. All of these would start as underdogs against Tarver and I’d probably stick money on all of them (well, Tiozzo not at the moment, but a year or so ago, yes).

In Johnson you’re looking at a guy who was essentially seen as a good, fring guy who was popular because he caught some rough decisions.

In Jones you’re looking at a guy who was a fraction of what he was before he went up to heavyweight. Tarver didn’t make him rubbish, the weight loss and the course of time did.

And still, Tarver’s 3-2 over this period. 3-2 against a guy in the second half of his 30s who’s been knocking around the fringes for about a decade and another bloke of a similar age who dropped 20 pounds of muscle in 8 months, looked like toilet, lost all his speed, and still beat Tarver because Tarver was shitting himself.

I know Tarver’s older than these two but is that a good thing? Or is he just an ageing man locked in a three-way jerk-off with some other old men?

And bringing old man Hopkins up 2 divisions and claiming it’s a huge fight is laughable. It’s going to be duller than dishwater.

Tarver’s consistent in producing unexciting fights and in ignoring the merits of anybody outside his immediate sphere of vision. I know he’s got to make money and he’s ‘bigging himself up’ but that’s no reason for anyone else to buy into it.

I’m about 100 times more interested in Adamek – Johnson than in Tarver – Hopkins. A young, motivated, fit and strong guy like Adamek would knock the stuffing out of Tarver. But unfortunately once again it’s left to Johnson to do the hard yards while Tarver swans around telling everbody that beating somebody who was wearing Roy Jones’ shorts makes him a deity.

If he’s a legend, fight someone under 35. If he’s a legend, how about looking to cruiser or even super middle instead of middle. How about looking to the big unit who just beat the middleweight you’re facing. Twice.

The guy’s a knob. He’s got ability but objectively he really isn’t all that and a bag of potato chips.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 19 Apr 2006, 10:29

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
viciousmaussa wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: Lets look at these criticisms

Hopkins was a middleweight fighting a LHW - SO SRL, HEarns, Trinidad, DLH were all coming up in weight and those are Haglers and BHops biggest fights

Hopkins and RJJ were shot - bullshit, past prime yes, shot not really. Tyszu was just as much if not more past prime (and not as good in the first place), however few here jump on RH for beating him. Tarver was older than RJJ too. Hes fought about 5 top10 LHWs into the bargain and beat every man hes faced.

Tarver isn't my favourate fighter but it seems boxing fans/writers are very hypocritical in their judging of fighters.

JLC losing to PBF is better than beating RJJ - erm NO, and he lost both fights if you know how to score a boxing match (the first as big a margin as the second). Judah did as well against PBF as Castillo did in the first 1. Castillos the most overated in the game he lost to Cassamoya but got a gift, had close 1s with Johnston, cheated against Corrales, could of lost to Lazcano if Lazcano pressed the issue. Ohhh and PBF while very good is highly overated, Chavez won more rounds than Castillo did.
you're talking wank mate, a case can be made that castillo outworked mayweather. if you think the Castillo-Mayweather and Judah-Mayweather are the same you need shock treatment

tszyu was coming off an impressive win over Sharmbah Mitchell when he lost to Hatton. as he got older he became a better, more refined boxer. when jones lost his speed, he was frankly fucked to smeg

castillo: yes he conned corrales into an over the weight non title fight, but what of corrales' cheating? chico asked for it. castillo outworked and wore down cassamayor. do you only score the flashy, cutie pie punches? erm, he could've lost to Lazcano? well he didn't did he? he boxed the man's ears off and carved his face up, winning at least 8 rds to 4. this when Castillo was weight drained and long contemplating moving up to 140.

so what if the Johnston fights were close? do you think Johnston is some bum? Stevie was an excellent fighter. i don't think Castillo won the first one, but I do think he won te 2nd one
Okay your a Castillo fan and score punches that miss the target. Castillo may have outworked PBF but punches the arms/gloves/shoulder do not score, Castillo won 4-5rounds in eachfight but no more, yes he made PBF look beatable but didn't do any better than the far smaller Chavez. Point is its hardly P4P stuff - Chavez/Judah/Cassa aren't on anyones top10 P4P lists but Castillo is, bollox.

Judah won 2-3 of the first 4 rounds, and he caught PBF square with straight lefts and hurt him more than Castillo ever did. He was outboxing PBF without pressure and beating PBF at his own game early, he made PBF look very ordinary and if he had some workrate and concentration would have pulled out a decision.

Tyszu had lost his stamina/speed and was flatfooted, maybe he was more accurate hes still past prime. Mitchells been proved to be shot anyway (and never that good anyway when he stepped up if you look back at his career), so that win while looking impressive means little. The point is Tarvers 2 wins over Jones is at least as impressive as Hattons win over Tyszu, especially as Hatton wouldn't offer Tyszu a rematch if he wanted 1 - look for the interviews he said as much.

Don't get me wrong Tarvers not a living legend, but hes better P4P than given credit for and a dominant champ, hes goto be above Hatton/Castillo/Corrales/Taylor/Calazage based on accomplishments. Although each can overtake him if they up their comp.

Castillo's punches don't look impressive. But he was laying some leather on Mayweather - the problem was, and this is why i don't have a big problem with the first fight's decision, is that he did no damage to Pretty Boy. Mayweather wasn't doing a great deal of punching in either of those two fights. he was emphasising so much on defense that he was flicking his shots and pulling away. that kind of 'grim purpose' that we see in Castillo just didn't pay off, as he couldn't soften Mayweather up.

but he was competitive all the way. ok, he gave the early rds away in fight one, and was actually discouraged in the last two rds of fight two when mayweather put some uice into the right hand. but JLC was competitive all the way - just about.

Judah was outclassed after 4 rounds, clueless after Mayweather found the range for left hooks and right hands.

i still don't think Tarver v Jones is as impressive as Hatton-Tszyu. I don't think Tszyu was badly faded, rather it seems Hatton brought on the older man's demise by making him work, pulling the stea out of him, roughing him up till he'd had enough. Tszyu was still very dangerous, scoring classy shots...but with Tarver-Jones I, Jones was a dead man walking, shockingly without his speed (he's shown since he can't really cut it on a level field). even more shocking, Tarver didn't seem to notice, he seemed glad to just hang in there with Jones

that's what i see as damaging to Tarver's rep. he should have done so much more vs Jones I, but being a counter puncher, I guess he does more whe the opponent does more (as in Jones II), which was more impressive

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 19 Apr 2006, 10:35

Look at how many top10s at LHW hes fought though:

RJJ - P4P no1

Johnson - beat Woods twice, Ulrich (who Adamak fans wank off over Johnson stopped him in 6), and got robber about 3-4times in other fights - was he robbed against Otke or was it legit?

Griffin - only bettered by RJJ and DM previously

Harding - only beaten close by RJJ previously

Reggie Johnson - decent top10er

5 top10 175lbers and he'd fight Adamek, Briggs, Woods, Erdei in a miniute if the money was there but there isnt. Tiozzos retired now anyway though. BHOPs will be his 6th top 10 opponent at 175.

Only PBF, Winky and Pacman can be above Tarver on achievements at the moment. Whats Hatton done other than beat Tyszu? Barrera hasn't done squat since fighting Morales. Morales keeps losing now. Castillo and Corrales and Cassa all lost against each other

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 19 Apr 2006, 10:37

viciousmaussa wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
viciousmaussa wrote: you're talking wank mate, a case can be made that castillo outworked mayweather. if you think the Castillo-Mayweather and Judah-Mayweather are the same you need shock treatment

tszyu was coming off an impressive win over Sharmbah Mitchell when he lost to Hatton. as he got older he became a better, more refined boxer. when jones lost his speed, he was frankly fucked to smeg

castillo: yes he conned corrales into an over the weight non title fight, but what of corrales' cheating? chico asked for it. castillo outworked and wore down cassamayor. do you only score the flashy, cutie pie punches? erm, he could've lost to Lazcano? well he didn't did he? he boxed the man's ears off and carved his face up, winning at least 8 rds to 4. this when Castillo was weight drained and long contemplating moving up to 140.

so what if the Johnston fights were close? do you think Johnston is some bum? Stevie was an excellent fighter. i don't think Castillo won the first one, but I do think he won te 2nd one
Okay your a Castillo fan and score punches that miss the target. Castillo may have outworked PBF but punches the arms/gloves/shoulder do not score, Castillo won 4-5rounds in eachfight but no more, yes he made PBF look beatable but didn't do any better than the far smaller Chavez. Point is its hardly P4P stuff - Chavez/Judah/Cassa aren't on anyones top10 P4P lists but Castillo is, bollox.

Judah won 2-3 of the first 4 rounds, and he caught PBF square with straight lefts and hurt him more than Castillo ever did. He was outboxing PBF without pressure and beating PBF at his own game early, he made PBF look very ordinary and if he had some workrate and concentration would have pulled out a decision.

Tyszu had lost his stamina/speed and was flatfooted, maybe he was more accurate hes still past prime. Mitchells been proved to be shot anyway (and never that good anyway when he stepped up if you look back at his career), so that win while looking impressive means little. The point is Tarvers 2 wins over Jones is at least as impressive as Hattons win over Tyszu, especially as Hatton wouldn't offer Tyszu a rematch if he wanted 1 - look for the interviews he said as much.

Don't get me wrong Tarvers not a living legend, but hes better P4P than given credit for and a dominant champ, hes goto be above Hatton/Castillo/Corrales/Taylor/Calazage based on accomplishments. Although each can overtake him if they up their comp.
Castillo's punches don't look impressive. But he was laying some leather on Mayweather - the problem was, and this is why i don't have a big problem with the first fight's decision, is that he did no damage to Pretty Boy. Mayweather wasn't doing a great deal of punching in either of those two fights. he was emphasising so much on defense that he was flicking his shots and pulling away. that kind of 'grim purpose' that we see in Castillo just didn't pay off, as he couldn't soften Mayweather up.

but he was competitive all the way. ok, he gave the early rds away in fight one, and was actually discouraged in the last two rds of fight two when mayweather put some uice into the right hand. but JLC was competitive all the way - just about.

Judah was outclassed after 4 rounds, clueless after Mayweather found the range for left hooks and right hands.

i still don't think Tarver v Jones is as impressive as Hatton-Tszyu. I don't think Tszyu was badly faded, rather it seems Hatton brought on the older man's demise by making him work, pulling the stea out of him, roughing him up till he'd had enough. Tszyu was still very dangerous, scoring classy shots...but with Tarver-Jones I, Jones was a dead man walking, shockingly without his speed (he's shown since he can't really cut it on a level field). even more shocking, Tarver didn't seem to notice, he seemed glad to just hang in there with Jones

that's what i see as damaging to Tarver's rep. he should have done so much more vs Jones I, but being a counter puncher, I guess he does more whe the opponent does more (as in Jones II), which was more impressive

In the first fight Castillo hurt PBF in 1 of the middle rounds but he gave away the first 4-5 rounds, and went 50-50 after that. And people say it was a gift - you cant win a fight giving away the first 5rounds

I'd agree RJJ was old against Tarver but was he really any worse and more weight drained against Tarver than he was against Ruiz? Or was Tarver just better and a tougher style? RJJ was probably declining for a while but would probably still beat Clinton Woods.

Rocky Balboa · Post by **Rocky Balboa** » 19 Apr 2006, 10:39

Tarver needs to shut the **** up! He talks so much rubbish, it has now beome so boring. How the hell can he feel he's a living legend, he has not done anything in the boxing ring, that justifies his claim1

He also come out with ridiculous comments i.e. Roy Jones was @ his best during 3rd encounter, what a load of shit.

He then calls out Mike Tyson, who has openly admitted he does not want to box anymore. I bet if Tarver met Mike in a dark alley, just the two of them, he would not be giving any back talk.

I am really hoping that Bernard Hopkins beats Tarver when they fight, but I am not too confident of this happening; Tarver is much the naturally bigger man, and I do not know whether B-Hop will able to hurt him?

Buddy McGirt needs to bring Tarver down a peg or two, make him see ludicrous statements his comes out with etc.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 19 Apr 2006, 10:46

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
viciousmaussa wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote: Okay your a Castillo fan and score punches that miss the target. Castillo may have outworked PBF but punches the arms/gloves/shoulder do not score, Castillo won 4-5rounds in eachfight but no more, yes he made PBF look beatable but didn't do any better than the far smaller Chavez. Point is its hardly P4P stuff - Chavez/Judah/Cassa aren't on anyones top10 P4P lists but Castillo is, bollox.

Judah won 2-3 of the first 4 rounds, and he caught PBF square with straight lefts and hurt him more than Castillo ever did. He was outboxing PBF without pressure and beating PBF at his own game early, he made PBF look very ordinary and if he had some workrate and concentration would have pulled out a decision.

Tyszu had lost his stamina/speed and was flatfooted, maybe he was more accurate hes still past prime. Mitchells been proved to be shot anyway (and never that good anyway when he stepped up if you look back at his career), so that win while looking impressive means little. The point is Tarvers 2 wins over Jones is at least as impressive as Hattons win over Tyszu, especially as Hatton wouldn't offer Tyszu a rematch if he wanted 1 - look for the interviews he said as much.

Don't get me wrong Tarvers not a living legend, but hes better P4P than given credit for and a dominant champ, hes goto be above Hatton/Castillo/Corrales/Taylor/Calazage based on accomplishments. Although each can overtake him if they up their comp.
Castillo's punches don't look impressive. But he was laying some leather on Mayweather - the problem was, and this is why i don't have a big problem with the first fight's decision, is that he did no damage to Pretty Boy. Mayweather wasn't doing a great deal of punching in either of those two fights. he was emphasising so much on defense that he was flicking his shots and pulling away. that kind of 'grim purpose' that we see in Castillo just didn't pay off, as he couldn't soften Mayweather up.

but he was competitive all the way. ok, he gave the early rds away in fight one, and was actually discouraged in the last two rds of fight two when mayweather put some uice into the right hand. but JLC was competitive all the way - just about.

Judah was outclassed after 4 rounds, clueless after Mayweather found the range for left hooks and right hands.

i still don't think Tarver v Jones is as impressive as Hatton-Tszyu. I don't think Tszyu was badly faded, rather it seems Hatton brought on the older man's demise by making him work, pulling the stea out of him, roughing him up till he'd had enough. Tszyu was still very dangerous, scoring classy shots...but with Tarver-Jones I, Jones was a dead man walking, shockingly without his speed (he's shown since he can't really cut it on a level field). even more shocking, Tarver didn't seem to notice, he seemed glad to just hang in there with Jones

that's what i see as damaging to Tarver's rep. he should have done so much more vs Jones I, but being a counter puncher, I guess he does more whe the opponent does more (as in Jones II), which was more impressive
In the first fight Castillo hurt PBF in 1 of the middle rounds but he gave away the first 4-5 rounds, and went 50-50 after that. And people say it was a gift - you cant win a fight giving away the first 5rounds

I'd agree RJJ was old against Tarver but was he really any worse and more weight drained against Tarver than he was against Ruiz? Or was Tarver just better and a tougher style? RJJ was probably declining for a while but would probably still beat Clinton Woods.

How the fornicate could Jones have been weight drained against Ruiz? He weighed in at 199 on the night!

Jones couldn't beat my grandmother now, he's gun shy old and tired. Whatever he did to himself to bulk up to fight Ruiz ruined him. Tarver had the style to give him problems being a very big light heavy with decent speed, but Jones would have made him miss and pay in his prime.