Caractacus wrote: ↑28 Feb 2018, 16:45
I don't remember him being "hated" around this time.(1965-66)
It wasn't until he refused to be drafted in 1967 that some people began not to like him for that reason.\(particularly when their own sons and brothers had to go,either that or go to Canada in the middle of the night).
He was not hated before he won the title. However, it was well before the draft situation.
It was really right after he beat Liston the first time; mainly due him publicly having his ties with the Nation of Islam.
Other people didn't like it when he went into character and did the "I am the Greatest " routine.
Here is what Dr. Robert Bennett (Liston's physician and previously Joe Louis physician had to say)
"I think Liston's prob;lem in the fight was that he swung and missed,severly stretching and rupturing his arm four or five inches below the shoulder".
Dr .Bennett had also claimed before the fight he was treating Liston with cortizone shots because he had developed burcitis in both arms and shoulders for the past two years.
Last edited by Caractacus on 28 Feb 2018, 17:04, edited 1 time in total.
Caractacus wrote: ↑28 Feb 2018, 16:54
I remember that they did a joke reference to him on Gilligans Isand around 1966,
but it ewasn't a mean joke.
Here was the joke (from the episode BEAUTY IS AS BEAUTY DOES which aired Sepember.23.1965.
Mary Ann- "oh,but Professor,I just want to beat Mrs. Howell and Ginger,not Cassius Clay ">
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Feb 2018, 16:52
Which few took seriously. There are witness of him throwing a chair with that arm in the dressing room after the fight. He was also throwing punches with that arm near the end of the 6th round. He was losing, knew he wouldn't last another 9 rounds and quit.
BULLCRAP!!! .... Liston throwing arm was his right... Liston was hated too and bullcrap stories were made up about him. This was the 1960's and the era of Civil Rights marches.. Martin Luther King and the Kennedy's were assassinated in the 60's.
Many in the south weren't happy with black Heavyweight Champions.... It wouldn't matter if Sonny were a saint, much less an ex-con who threw cops into garbage cans - and put the lid on saying "That's where you belong azzhole."
Bill Cayton-who of BIGFIGHTS INC. watched films of the fight and he came to the conclusion that Liston's arm was hurt
early on.He said Liston only pushed his left and did'nt throw it with any leverage at all in the fight.
Joe Pollino (Liston's cut man) believed Liston hurt his left shoulder in the fifth round
when Cassius Clay stopped a punch in mid-air and Liston felt something crack in his shoulder.
Right.... Clay was "a breath of fresh air" according to a lot of fans and the Boxing Establishment... He was extremely popular and could talk a mile a minute... He got tons of publicity and ink -- and this is what Boxing needed after the ridiculous '50's.
The judges weren't favoring Liston... Whatever rounds Sonny won, he did it with an extremely bad injury,
Caractacus wrote: ↑28 Feb 2018, 16:45
I don't remember him being "hated" around this time.(1965-66)
It wasn't until he refused to be drafted in 1967 that some people began not to like him for that reason.\(particularly when their own sons and brothers had to go,either that or go to Canada in the middle of the night).
He was due to his connections to the nation of islam. He told the ironic story of an elegantly dressed white woman sitting ringside who screamed " go on sonny shut that n$%^&ers big mouth for him." Muricans at that time simply did not want to hear black is beautiful etc, etc, etc, which the main theme of Ali's self promotion.
Have you ever considered that maybe that the elegantly dressed White Woman was Sonny Liston's girlfriend ?
Of course she was going to root for Sonny.
Caractacus wrote: ↑02 Mar 2018, 14:07
Here is how the judges scored the fight (if you are interested) after 6 rounds
( on a 10 points per round basis
Judge William "Bunny" Lovett Liston-58 Clay-56
Judge Gus Jacobson Clay-59 Liston-56
Referee Barny Felix Liston-57 Clay-57
Always thought that if Liston had know then were scoring the fight like that he probably would not have had an "injury".
The fight was very easy to score. It's not like the rounds were really close; Liston simply couldn't get to Clay very often at all.
Clay won rounds 1-4 and round round 6. Liston won round 5.
The scoring should have been 59-55 Clay.
The scoring was ridiculous.
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑02 Mar 2018, 16:38
Always thought that if Liston had know then were scoring the fight like that he probably would not have had an "injury"
You always think a lot of weird things that are Zu Zu Land fantasies... Eight (8) doctors examined Liston and verified the injury... The documentation of Liston's injury has been widely published for anyone with a brain to peruse... All the doctors testified it was a very serious injury and incapacitated Liston's ability to defend himself.
If Liston won all 6 rounds it still wouldn't matter... He wouldn't win one more round and he knew it... The injury was getting so bad that he couldn't throw or move the arm without busting his nuts... Vitali Klitschko was miles ahead of Chris Bryd when his left arm became totally useless... Beating a top Heavyweight with one arm is a lottery shot... A fool would try it.
I said you don't attempt to beat a TOP Heavyweight with 1 arm.... Mark Potter was far from a top Heavyweight. Few Boxing fans ever heard of Potter.... He achieved no fame... Danny Williams knew he had a fair shot to beat Potter even with the injured arm, so he went for it.... Williams beat Mike Tyson by KO and got a World Title shot at Vitali Klitschko....
Williams lost to Vitali by KO of course... but he was a top Heavyweight and Potter was just another guy who tried to achieve something and fell way short... Tyson was going on his last legs when he got knocked out by Williams.
As stated the scores meant less than NOTHING. Ali was considered a loudmouthed BLACK braggart ENEMY of Murica at that time. He totally dominated the " fight " but he was NEVER going to be awarded a points victory.
well, I got that info out of the book SONNY BOY by Rob Steen which I reading the other day..
i think the author even mentions the wide discrepency of the 2 points from Lovett and Jacobson.
And I pointed out that Mark Potter was a 2nd rater who a top Heavyweight could easily beat with one arm you ignorant asswipe.... Danny Williams beat a ton of 2nd raters but also got his ass kicked often by the more skilled guys.
They weren't considered equal you clueless vegetable.... Potter was never heard from on the world stage... How do you lose to Keith Long? Williams fought World champions and beat Mike Tyson... Even then he was expected to plow Potter.... Potter's only claim to fame was beating Butter Bean... He looked good in that one... The Bean basically flagged and quit after allowing himself to be a 350 pound punching bag.
Williams quit too... He signaled that he'd had enough more than once... He shrugged at the referee in his Leif Larson fight "You're not going to stop it?"
