HW champion or champion at three (or more) weight divisions ?

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 01 Mar 2018, 06:38

What do you appreciate more, HW champion as absolute boxing champion, or the champion at three or more weight divisions (Pacquiao, Broner......) ?
Personally, I have more respect for HW...............

Luis Fernando12 · Post by **Luis Fernando12** » 01 Mar 2018, 06:43

The number 1 heavyweight in the world = the best boxer in the world head to head, period. So my vote goes to the heavyweight!

Cent0089 · Post by **Cent0089** » 01 Mar 2018, 07:39

Level of oposition is what matters

bradinho · Post by **bradinho** » 01 Mar 2018, 10:03

Well its a pretty nuanced argument but being a champion at 3 or more weight divisions could include the HW division and being able to adapt to your body as it grows, fighting against naturally "bigger" people or ones with naturally better stamina ....

Deleted_Scenes · Post by **Deleted_Scenes** » 01 Mar 2018, 10:14

Depends who you've fought...

Personally I give most weight to a fighter who is able to pick up all the major belts in a single division, than one who picks up a single title then moves on.

Broner, for example, managed to become a 4 division champion without really fighting a threat. Looks nice on paper, but cleaning out a single division means more. It makes you the man.

TheGman · Post by **TheGman** » 01 Mar 2018, 11:24

A manny pacquiao or floyd mayweather is more than a deontay wilder,wilder has been wbc heavyweight champion for about 3 years and hasnt fought anyone of note. I would of said heavyweight if i was asked this question 15+ years ago but since the klit bros reign i lost interest in the heavys and they stunk the division right out. And as i write this im thinking a multi weight champ now isnt the same as a multi weight champ in hearns or Leonard era,its lost its shine in my opinion. I think its class of opponent over belts now.

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 01 Mar 2018, 13:45

bradinho wrote: ↑01 Mar 2018, 10:03 Well its a pretty nuanced argument but being a champion at 3 or more weight divisions could include the HW division and being able to adapt to your body as it grows, fighting against naturally "bigger" people or ones with naturally better stamina ....

I think it is practically impossible to imagine any boxer becoming the champion at LHW, CW, and at HW, nowadays.
The best example is Adamek, he had been very decent at LHW and CW, but at HW he did nothing (or almost nothing).
Opening this post, I considered only the genuine champions, not the paper champions/beltholders.

bradinho · Post by **bradinho** » 01 Mar 2018, 13:56

ValMar wrote: ↑01 Mar 2018, 13:45
bradinho wrote: ↑01 Mar 2018, 10:03 Well its a pretty nuanced argument but being a champion at 3 or more weight divisions could include the HW division and being able to adapt to your body as it grows, fighting against naturally "bigger" people or ones with naturally better stamina ....
I think it is practically impossible to imagine any boxer becoming the champion at LHW, CW, and at HW, nowadays.
The best example is Adamek, he had been very decent at LHW and CW, but at HW he did nothing (or almost nothing).
Opening this post, I considered only the genuine champions, not the paper champions/beltholders.

Fair point nowadays .... but could somebody nowadays go from HW to Cruiser the LHW? How much respect would that earn!

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 01 Mar 2018, 14:08

bradinho wrote: ↑01 Mar 2018, 13:56
ValMar wrote: ↑01 Mar 2018, 13:45
bradinho wrote: ↑01 Mar 2018, 10:03 Well its a pretty nuanced argument but being a champion at 3 or more weight divisions could include the HW division and being able to adapt to your body as it grows, fighting against naturally "bigger" people or ones with naturally better stamina ....
I think it is practically impossible to imagine any boxer becoming the champion at LHW, CW, and at HW, nowadays.
The best example is Adamek, he had been very decent at LHW and CW, but at HW he did nothing (or almost nothing).
Opening this post, I considered only the genuine champions, not the paper champions/beltholders.
Fair point nowadays .... but could somebody nowadays go from HW to Cruiser the LHW? How much respect would that earn!

As I said, it is difficult to imagine nowadays, even I can not imagine anyone being champion at SMW, LHW and CW (I mean the genuine champion, the best at the division).
Personally, I feel Andre Ward would be destroyed by Usyk or Gassiev, and I can not see the better example.

asdfjkl · Post by **asdfjkl** » 02 Mar 2018, 00:14

bradinho wrote: ↑01 Mar 2018, 10:03 Well its a pretty nuanced argument but being a champion at 3 or more weight divisions could include the HW division and being able to adapt to your body as it grows, fighting against naturally "bigger" people or ones with naturally better stamina ....

Or continually look for the weakest "champion" with a weight 2 pounds under, or above you.
Undisputed champion might be more interesting. Nowadays there are piles of champions nobody has ever heard about.

jamamb · Post by **jamamb** » 02 Mar 2018, 00:16

you mean any hw title holder? like charles martin?

asdfjkl · Post by **asdfjkl** » 02 Mar 2018, 00:59

jamamb wrote: ↑02 Mar 2018, 00:16 you mean any hw title holder? like charles martin?

No, ghere are like 5 belts each division, so in theory up to 15 different champions with a weightdifference of less then 7 pounds. That means that if you got a lucky winner (like Stiverne, or Charles Martin) around your weight, then you can take over. This is what Mayweather for example always did. He never fought the best, he always fought the weakest champ. I had a friend who thought he was the best fighter on the planet and someone sho can smash up anybody. I told him Mayweather couldn't even win a fight against him himself and showed him a picture of Maria Sharapova standing next to him, being a head taller and showed him Anthony Joshua after that (someone he never heard about at the time).

jamamb · Post by **jamamb** » 02 Mar 2018, 01:33

should we respect manuel charr and eric molina more than srisaket sor rungvisai, naoya inoue, juan fransico estrada, luis nery, leo santa cruz, miguel berchelt, loma, etc

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 02 Mar 2018, 01:38

jamamb wrote: ↑02 Mar 2018, 01:33 should we respect manuel charr and eric molina more than srisaket sor rungvisai, naoya inoue, juan fransico estrada, luis nery, leo santa cruz, miguel berchelt, loma, etc

I wrote : the genuine champion, the best at the division.

jamamb · Post by **jamamb** » 02 Mar 2018, 01:42

why should we respect them more?

if its an absolute ability thing, well i bet you manny charr wouldve beaten up greats like morales, barrera, and now guys like loma, inou, estrada, sor rungvisai etc

otherwise you really have to look at quality of opposition. i will say that being the absolute man doesnt allow for cherrypicking like being a multidivision champ can (see burns). so without opposition to go by i can see being ''the hw man' as a general argument

but if the 3 division champ is 'the man' in each division, its overall more impressive imo then simply being the man at hw

ValMar · Post by **ValMar** » 02 Mar 2018, 01:51

jamamb wrote: ↑02 Mar 2018, 01:42 why should we respect them more?

if its an absolute ability thing, well i bet you manny charr wouldve beaten up greats like morales, barrera, and now guys like loma, inou, estrada, sor rungvisai etc

otherwise you really have to look at quality of opposition

The best HW = the absolute boxing champion.

jamamb · Post by **jamamb** » 02 Mar 2018, 01:55

so it is absolute

manny charr on absolute terms would beat loma and past guys like morales and barrera and ricardo lopez. should we respect manny more as a boxer?

if the hw cleaned out the division and the 3 division champ guy cherry picked, then ya i can see the hw being more respected for sure. but ill take as a generality 'im the man ' reigns in 3 divisions over being the man simply at hw.

the 3 time champ in that case probably showed his dominance over more ppl and a greater range of opponents then the hw did