Is AJ a paint by numbers boxer? And if so...

[Sklar]

...does Wilder’s unconventional style cause him real problems?

[gilgamesh]

Wilder's power and explosiveness can give anybody problems, but he's not the most accurate guy with his shots.

[jamamb]

i honestly think ppl overrate how effective the unorthodxy of wilder is

its not the unorthodox (aka technically crude) part thats effective , its the great althetic attributes

its the unorthodoxy/lack of technique that gets wilder into trouble. great height, speed, power, stamina, etc, so why problems with so many less gifted opponents? because he makes so many mistakes still

his was by far best when he kept it tight vs stiverne. then he got sloppy and got clipped and pushed by guys like molina, szpilka, etc

[gilgamesh]

i honestly think ppl overrate how effective the unorthodxy of wilder is

its not the unorthodox (aka technically crude) part thats effective , its the great althetic attributes

its the unorthodoxy/lack of technique that gets wilder into trouble. great height, speed, power, stamina, etc, so why problems with so many less gifted opponents?

Yes I agree. If he had better technical skill he wouldn't have had the trouble he had in the fight.

[jamamb]

ya i mean if the unorthodoxy was really a bonus, and he has all that speed, power, stamina, height, reach to go with it, hed be beating these less gifted guys without any problem

just because a guy with wonky technique is succesful, doesnt mean being wonky is itself effective or succesful

[Sklar]

I agree but paint by numbers guys do tend to struggle with unorthodoxy. Do you think Joshua is a paint by numbers boxer?

[jamamb]

he looks like he has more of a technically sound drilled in style, yes

but what exactly about wilders unorthodoxy causes the problems to aj? as i said, it looks clear to me that its actually been more of a hindrance to wilder, otherwise he would be beating these shorter, less reach, far less athletically gifted guys easier

but instead guys like molina, wilder, washington, duhaupas, and ortiz are finding him and giving him some issues, sometimes serious ones like tonight

[dirk2686]

I agree but paint by numbers guys do tend to struggle with unorthodoxy. Do you think Joshua is a paint by numbers boxer?

Wilder routinely leaves himself wide open. I'm not even sure he's that good a finisher in the strict sense; he tends to (literally) run in, swinging very wildly and missing with a lot of shots. He had a chance to get rid of Ortiz last night much earlier than he did but failed to capitalise and ended up nearly losing.

I'm not really sure how being far more open than fighters Joshua has fought before will be an advantage. The way to beating Wilder is via the basics which Joshua has.

[Counter-puncher]

I agree but paint by numbers guys do tend to struggle with unorthodoxy. Do you think Joshua is a paint by numbers boxer?

He's paint by numbers until it's time to close the show it seems to me. As stiff as he can look at times, when there is blood in the water an instinct does seem to kick in.

As for paint by numbers guys struggling with unorthodoxy? Maybe. I'm pretty sure I've seen more instances of paint by numbers guys struggling with similar guys who were just better at it, than with unorthodoxy in itself.

[stujones]

Agree with a lot of comments - Joshua is a paint by numbers "stiff" fighter IMO, but there is ultimately a reason why coaches teach boxing technique - because 90% of the time it will embarrass someone with zero technique.

The fact that Joshua is so drilled and correct in his technique, makes him very likely to beat someone as unorthodox as Wilder.... well, when I say unorthodox, that is doing a bit of a disserves to other champions who are classed as unorthodox. Naz was unorthodox but you could see he had the basic grounding and was very rarely caught off balance.... Wilder looks off balance and crude in many occassions. He has some great attributes, Speed, sheer athleticism, power, that are getting him out of jail - plus on many occassions his opponents have been too inferior to even threaten him.

Wilder has the speed, power and athleticism to catch and KO Joshua no doubt - but if I was a betting man, I would bet on Joshua completely exposing and embarrassing Wilder and I am no massive fan of Joshua, but if Wilder's technique was a successful technique then coaches would teach it.

I remember Hasim Rahman telling people that he was pioneer of a new defensive technique to deal with an on coming attack - and that was to stick his two hand out infront of him, to create distance. It always looked like an accident waiting to happen, but a good chin and the poorness of the heavyweight division at the time, meant he was a contender (as he had some other lovely attributes) and he even won the world title twice - but Lennox ultimately exposed that "pioneer" defense - safe to say no amateur coach is telling people to do a Rahman.

[keirw]

Joshua can be very deliberate and methodical at times, but when he chooses to open up he puts his combinations together very well.

Wilder is pretty quick and has a savage right hand, but not alot else. I see Joshua outboxing him at range and bullying him on the inside, as soon as he starts to wobble around the ring (we have seen it many times) Joshua will land a hard accurate combination that will finish him off imo.

The only way Wilder can beat Joshua is to land a huge right hand and capitalise on the opportunity if he has him hurt,but i cant see it happening as he tends to smother his own work when he goes for the finish.

[WildWaylon]

Wilder can adapt. He proved that in his first fight with Stiverne. People said he hadnt got 12 rounds in him and that he had to KO opponents to win. I think he will work on his defense more with AJ and try a counter punch finisher when AJ comes storming in. I think Wilder has learnt from his last fight not to take so many chances and to hold his hands up more.

[dirk2686]

Wilder can adapt. He proved that in his first fight with Stiverne. People said he hadnt got 12 rounds in him and that he had to KO opponents to win. I think he will work on his defense more with AJ and try a counter punch finisher when AJ comes storming in. I think Wilder has learnt from his last fight not to take so many chances and to hold his hands up more.

Since he fought Stiverne he's been wobbled by Molina who Joshua destroyed without issue, he was getting beaten by Washington and very close against Szpilka, and Ortiz was about five seconds away from stopping him and should have been miles ahead on the cards. Joshua is better than all of them and wins comparable fights without a problem.

If that's the result of learning from Stiverne it's worrying. I'm not saying Wilder is poor; he's found a way to win all of those fights after all. But bar Ortiz the opposition is very average and he keeps getting into trouble in a way Joshua doesn't. He may try to counter but I wonder if this fight just comes down to the fact that Wilder is wild and swings from miles out which leaves him very open to quick shots down the middle which Joshua is just better at.

[TheLeprechaun]

Joshua always gets a pass for being robotic. Wilder is looser and I think faster. Ortiz vs joshua would have been interesting.

[jamamb]

joshua doesnt get a pass at all, ppl have gone about his stiffness for ever

but overall he makes far fewer mistakes then wilder

you go on about wilders unorthodoxness like its a plus, when its his unorthdoxness (aka box of flaws) that allow ppl like molina to hurt him and szpilka to be ultra competitive.

just between molina, washington, and szpilka i think you could score like 10 rounds against wilder. and duhaupas shut his eye. of course his power got there in the end, but dont forget aj ko'd everyone too, without having as much issue with the second and third tier opponents

[Coco]

If Joshua is paint by numbers they might start calling him Di Vinci!

[Counter-puncher]

Joshua always gets a pass for being robotic.

Taking this thread as a random sample three different people have referred to his stiffness, that's on this thread alone, hardly getting a pass at all.

[TheLeprechaun]

joshua doesnt get a pass at all, ppl have gone about his stiffness for ever

but overall he makes far fewer mistakes then wilder

you go on about wilders unorthodoxness like its a plus, when its his unorthdoxness (aka box of flaws) that allow ppl like molina to hurt him and szpilka to be ultra competitive.

just between molina, washington, and szpilka i think you could score like 10 rounds against wilder. and duhaupas shut his eye. of course his power got there in the end, but dont forget aj ko'd everyone too, without having as much issue with the second and third tier opponents

Making mistakes can be a good thing in some fighters. Wilders trainer has said he wants Wilder to improve but to keep his style. He is improving with every fight for me. His punches look sharper. He is patient and composed. The rounds he loses are basically not because he is being hugely outboxed, it's more that he isn't doing much and lack of activity. Carl Froch made almost every mistake in the book but he was highly effective.

Molina hurt Wilder when they were exchanging left hooks. Mistake by Wilder to be doing that. Spilka wasn't really that competitive. Washington won rounds where Wilder was doing nothing but it's not like Wilder is taking a Hopkins vs Trinidad schooling in his rounds he is losing. Wilder basically fought an inside fight for a lot of the time vs duhappas and took cuffing shots.

It's not like Joshua hasn't been tagged in fights. He was caught in the White fight, shipped some from Takam and of course Wlad. Because he is aggressive he gets hit a fair bit. The longer a fight goes the more dangerous Wilder gets so Joshua would do well to starch him early.

One thing I can confidently say is that Lewis (especially the one from Rahman 2 which was his prime performance for me) absolutely mullers both of them. I'd give them 6 rounds each with Lewis max and that's being generous.

[jamamb]

szpilka absolutely was competitive, was having wilder miss a lot and countering him. wilder struggled to track him down

if you compare aj and wilder vs b or c guys like breazeale or common opponent molina, aj clearly wins with fewer problems. takam won 1 round vs aj and really made no notable mark other then going rounds. shows how high standards are for aj when thats a big deal

even being agressive aj is getting hit less and losing less rounds vs the guy you say is patient and composed with an unthodox style advantage

and again, being effective and having a wonky style doesnt mean your effective because that style. wilder has great speed, power, reach, height stamina, and if he really did have a top style too it would all be smooth sailing

its like george foreman had a great career and he was slow, that doesnt mean he was effective because he was slow. carl froch likewise had some excellent stamina, chin, tenacity, good power, good timing etc that allowed him to overcome certain shortcomings

[danconnollyeire]

He reminds me of Michael Grant a lot

[TheLeprechaun]

He reminds me of Michael Grant a lot

Lewis would do him like he did Grant.

[danconnollyeire]

He reminds me of Michael Grant a lot

Lewis would do him like he did Grant.

Lennox would batter Wilder, AJ and Parker in one night