Could Jack Dempsey Beat Joe Louis?

[BitPlayer]

Joe Louis is nearly universally considered the greater boxer, and I'm not going to argue with that.

But what about head to head if they fought under "Dempsey" rules? Joe Louis got dropped a few times early in fights, if Dempsey could do that then stand over Lewis and hammer him as he got up, could Louis recover? I'm not sure.

Interesting on to think about.

[gilgamesh]

Could he? Yes

Would he? I'd say no. At least 8 times out of 10

[SenorPipino]

I'd make it only 7 times out of 10.

Boxer-puncher Louis' sensational thudding jab would control Dempsey and keep him honest.

He would simply outbox the rugged brawler. Tunney dId and without the power Louis possessed.

But I'm sure that on occasion, Dempsey could catch the sometimes plodding Louis with that big right hand, swarm him and maybe finish him.

When 2 ATG's meet, you can't expect one to win every time.

[Kalan]

Louis would win.... Dempsey was tougher and a harder puncher... but Louis was the better athlete and better boxer -- and so he's going to win every time because Dempsey wasn't a stand up counter puncher like Max Schmeling... He'd generally be swinging at air like he did with Tunney... Tunney fought as a Middleweight and Light Heavyweight for much of his career but he nearly put Dempsey away in the 10th... If it were 15 he would have finished him.

Schmeling was very confident he'd knock Louis out because he focused on a jabber's rhythm... Louis jabbed and jabbed.

That's how you beat a busy boxer like Louis... You set up his jab for a counterpunch and nail him... If Conn were a 200 pound man he probably could have beaten Louis at his best... He had great timing and speed.

[APerno]

On any given night Dempsey could beat them all (and I mean them all, even the big guys today); but if it's not that 'given night' Dempsey probably loses to half of the lineal champions. Although we like to use the cliche 'oh, he's got a puncher's chance' we usually don't believe it when we say it. With Dempsey we can believe it when we say it; but more often then not he loses to most of the ATG HWs.

Though he has to be out boxed, there are few to none that could out bang him, even the big guys.

The above post that suggested an 8 to 2 split Louis way seems an odd way to say it, but with Dempsey it seems a correct assessment. If it was the World Series of Boxing, it's Louis four games to one.

[Kalan]

Although Dempsey did better in his 2nd fight with Tunney because he won a round with a knockdown (Tunney said he focused on scoring a knockdown himself after that and he did) boxers generally do better in rematches... They learn more about their opponent's rhythm, timing, footwork, strategies, tactics, and favorite tricks... Their game-plan in any series gets stronger because they have more and more material to work with...

Tunney got better each time he fought Greb... Charles got better in his Moore series... Patterson learned how to keep Johansson's right hand off of him... Floyd had a glitch in the rubber match because Ingo planned to get him in the 1st round and came out so fast. Patterson soon regained control.. Ali won his trilogy with Frazier.. Zale won his trilogy with Graziano.. I felt Marquez did better in each fight with Pacquiao.. I had him winning the 3rd encounter and he iced Pacman in the 4th fight...

If Louis had an 80% chance of beating Dempsey in their 1st fight... That would climb to 90% in a rematch... It would keep climbing the more fights they had... Jack Blackburn was as keen observer and Louis always did better in rematches.

[BitPlayer]

Interesting. I need to watch him more before really saying for sure, but I suspect He's very underrated as a boxer and overrated as a punched. Even against Tunney he was surprisingly slippery, and he used various techniques to amplify his power, and still often took a good few to get the job done.

[Crease]

Could he? Yes

Would he? I'd say no. At least 8 times out of 10

X2. Well said Mr Gilgamesh.

[Ezzard]

I'd back Louis but it's close. Joe didn't have the speed of foot which Dempsey found troublesome in opponents.

Jack started fast and if he floors Joe he would have a great chance at finishing it...

But as they fight goes on Joe's better all round skills should begin to take it away from Dempsey.

[APerno]

Although Dempsey did better in his 2nd fight with Tunney because he won a round with a knockdown (Tunney said he focused on scoring a knockdown himself after that and he did) boxers generally do better in rematches... They learn more about their opponent's rhythm, timing, footwork, strategies, tactics, and favorite tricks... Their game-plan in any series gets stronger because they have more and more material to work with...

Tunney got better each time he fought Greb... Charles got better in his Moore series... Patterson learned how to keep Johansson's right hand off of him... Floyd had a glitch in the rubber match because Ingo planned to get him in the 1st round and came out so fast. Patterson soon regained control.. Ali won his trilogy with Frazier.. Zale won his trilogy with Graziano.. I felt Marquez did better in each fight with Pacquiao.. I had him winning the 3rd encounter and he iced Pacman in the 4th fight...

If Louis had an 80% chance of beating Dempsey in their 1st fight... That would climb to 90% in a rematch... It would keep climbing the more fights they had... Jack Blackburn was as keen observer and Louis always did better in rematches.

Agree with most of the above but must take issue with one point, the Tunney remark regarding equaling the KDs. Dempsey had no choice but to rush into Tunney in the 9th because it was obvious after the 7th that Tunney wasn't going to engage; Tunney caught Dempsey with a counter right that Dempsey had to walk into to get to the fleeing Tunney, and I know you know it was nothing but a flash KD to one knee and he was right back up again. It is disingenuous to compare the two KD and claim Tunney equaled the score in KDs. They do not compare. 100 years later you're hauling water for Tunney's ego

'Had to work on it,' my ass. You have to be careful with Tunney he had the biggest ego of all the champions, save for maybe Sullivan, (and if you are looking for a racist, it was Tunney.) But boy what an ego, never had a kind word for anyone except himself.

[APerno]

Although Dempsey did better in his 2nd fight with Tunney because he won a round with a knockdown (Tunney said he focused on scoring a knockdown himself after that and he did) boxers generally do better in rematches... They learn more about their opponent's rhythm, timing, footwork, strategies, tactics, and favorite tricks... Their game-plan in any series gets stronger because they have more and more material to work with...

Tunney got better each time he fought Greb... Charles got better in his Moore series... Patterson learned how to keep Johansson's right hand off of him... Floyd had a glitch in the rubber match because Ingo planned to get him in the 1st round and came out so fast. Patterson soon regained control.. Ali won his trilogy with Frazier.. Zale won his trilogy with Graziano.. I felt Marquez did better in each fight with Pacquiao.. I had him winning the 3rd encounter and he iced Pacman in the 4th fight...

If Louis had an 80% chance of beating Dempsey in their 1st fight... That would climb to 90% in a rematch... It would keep climbing the more fights they had... Jack Blackburn was as keen observer and Louis always did better in rematches.

Agree with most of the above but must take issue with one point, the Tunney remark regarding equaling the KDs. Dempsey had no choice but to rush into Tunney in the 8th because it was obvious after the 7th that Tunney wasn't going to engage; Tunney caught Dempsey with a counter right that Dempsey had to walk into to get to the fleeing Tunney, and I know you know it was nothing but a flash KD to one knee and he was right back up again. It is disingenuous to compare the two KD and claim Tunney equaled the score in KDs. They do not compare. 100 years later you're hauling water for Tunney's ego

'Had to work on it,' my ass. You have to be careful with Tunney he had the biggest ego of all the champions, save for maybe Sullivan, (and if you are looking for a racist, it was Tunney.) But boy what an ego, never had a kind word for anyone except himself.

[Ambling Alp II]

I'd back Louis but it's close. Joe didn't have the speed of foot which Dempsey found troublesome in opponents.

Jack started fast and if he floors Joe he would have a great chance at finishing it...

But as they fight goes on Joe's better all round skills should begin to take it away from Dempsey.

That's pretty much how I see it as well. Would lean towards Louis, but Dempsey would have a serious chance.

[HomicideHenry]

If it was one fight and one fight only, I'd say Dempsey would have won. But Louis was death in rematches, and therefore, in a series he'd win it over Dempsey.

[Kalan]

Although Dempsey did better in his 2nd fight with Tunney because he won a round with a knockdown (Tunney said he focused on scoring a knockdown himself after that and he did) boxers generally do better in rematches... They learn more about their opponent's rhythm, timing, footwork, strategies, tactics, and favorite tricks... Their game-plan in any series gets stronger because they have more and more material to work with...

Tunney got better each time he fought Greb... Charles got better in his Moore series... Patterson learned how to keep Johansson's right hand off of him... Floyd had a glitch in the rubber match because Ingo planned to get him in the 1st round and came out so fast. Patterson soon regained control.. Ali won his trilogy with Frazier.. Zale won his trilogy with Graziano.. I felt Marquez did better in each fight with Pacquiao.. I had him winning the 3rd encounter and he iced Pacman in the 4th fight...

If Louis had an 80% chance of beating Dempsey in their 1st fight... That would climb to 90% in a rematch... It would keep climbing the more fights they had... Jack Blackburn was as keen observer and Louis always did better in rematches.

Agree with most of the above but must take issue with one point, the Tunney remark regarding equaling the KDs. Dempsey had no choice but to rush into Tunney in the 8th because it was obvious after the 7th that Tunney wasn't going to engage; Tunney caught Dempsey with a counter right that Dempsey had to walk into to get to the fleeing Tunney, and I know you know it was nothing but a flash KD to one knee and he was right back up again. It is disingenuous to compare the two KD and claim Tunney equaled the score in KDs. They do not compare. 100 years later you're hauling water for Tunney's ego

'Had to work on it,' my ass. You have to be careful with Tunney he had the biggest ego of all the champions, save for maybe Sullivan, (and if you are looking for a racist, it was Tunney.) But boy what an ego, never had a kind word for anyone except himself.

Hmmm.....not at all... Tunney didn't catch Dempsey with a counter right that he walked into... Tunney was flinging hard rights and Dempsey was ducking under them... A full bore straight caught Dempsey a grazing shot as he ducked under it... That's where the flash knockdown occurred...

True.....it wasn't as good as Dempsey's knockdown ..... But picture this APerno .... You're The Heavyweight Champion of the World... who fought most of your career as a Light Heavyweight or lighter.... and you're fighting the most feared puncher in the world.... and you get nailed with 2 terrific head shots and sag against the ropes.... and the bomber blasts you with more smashing punches to the head on the way to the canvas.... but you survive that episode.... and within a couple more rounds you get the knockdown back and almost get the stoppage in the last round in a solid win.... with the biggest gate, most attendance, and biggest paycheck (a million bucks) of all time for a boxer .... You'd be pretty happy with that.

Tunney was fast friends with Dempsey BTW... When Tunney's son was elected to Congress and the Senate, Dempsey was there with them, watching the returns come in... John V Tunney was one of the hardest working US Senators.. He sponsored some 40 bills that were enacted into law...

When it comes to someone's character??? .... I'll take somebody who has an overblown ego over somebody who's dishonest, a liar, a cheater, a wife beater -- or somebody who enriches himself with crooked business deals, or is just a lazy ass who never accomplishes anything or lives up to his or her potential in their line of work.... We all have faults.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

NO They could fight 10 time's and Joe would win 10 Time's

[BOBH]

Great dream match up. Joe Louis did not have trouble with fighters that came to him. He had trouble with moving boxers. Dempsey would come to him. Slugfest from start to finish with Dempsey KO'd.

[APerno]

If Schmeling could land his right over 12 rounds why wouldn't Dempsey be able to deliver bigger bombs?

[Kalan]

If Schmeling could land his right over 12 rounds why wouldn't Dempsey be able to deliver bigger bombs?

Because Dempsey wasn't a stand up boxer who could balance off the back foot.... time a jab to perfection.... and sniper in an accurate and rangy straight right counter shot... That was Max Schmeling's specialty...

Schmeling didn't have a lot of other superb weapons in his arsenal -- but that can work if you're fighting a style that gives you a great number of jabs to choose from.... Louis kept them coming, and Schmeling waited like a patient assassin..

[Caractacus]

Jack Dempsey aka "The Manassa Mauler" was simply the best
.
I remember there once was a thread here of Jack Dempsey with various photographs of him posing
with some of the other HW Champios over the years(with a few were they are clutching their fists
out in front)there was one of him with George Foreman !
but i think some jerk-offs here had the thread removed because they didn't like the poster.

[Caractacus]

If Schmeling could land his right over 12 rounds why wouldn't Dempsey be able to deliver bigger bombs?

Louis was suseptible mostly to rights over his jab during his career.
(Schmeling,Braddock Jersey Joe Walcott knocked him down and Conn and Maurello staggered him with a right)
But he was also knocked down by a lefts from Tony Galento and Rocky Marciano.
so just imagine if Jack Dempsey had landed a "Shovel Hook" on him.

[Kalan]

If Schmeling could land his right over 12 rounds why wouldn't Dempsey be able to deliver bigger bombs?

Louis was suseptible mostly to rights over his jab during his career.
(Schmeling,Braddock Jersey Joe Walcott knocked him down and Conn and Maurello staggered him with a right)
But he was also knocked down by a lefts from Tony Galento and Rocky Marciano.
so just imagine if Jack Dempsey had landed a "Shovel Hook" on him.

Louis didn’t get nailed over the jab versus Braddock, Mauriello etc. That was Schmeling’s specialty.

Start at 5:30 of this vid.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycUOUvuQ9V8 Louis unleashes brutal hooks and uppercuts at Braddock.. As he misses a big loaded right Braddock is waiting and gets Louis with a very short right uppercut.

Start at 5:03 of this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUzJaokX_N8 Louis is oblivious to Maurillo’s right hand. Louis blocks a left hook decoy and his left is down at his waist. Can you imagine a big Heavyweight like Joshua or Klitschko blasting Louis with a right hand like that. These were very little guys who mostly boxed as Light Heavyweights.