is it just me or has bruno become a mocked fgure

[jamamb]

as a boxer

ppl have said aj wll be no more then another bruno as if that a bad thing

bruno was a good fghter who in recent eras wouldve been elite. wouldnt at all be surprsed if he wouldve beaten wlad.


is it just too hard to forget those losses of brunos? how good do you believe he was?

[danconnollyeire]

The other day you said AJ is better than Bruno. Now you're saying Bruno would beat Wlad, who nearly beat AJ is his 40s. What you on about?

[Stuarty]

Bruno was a decent fighter. AJ is a different story. He's black and he's built so the Bruno comparison is a natural one to make but they're very different.

[jamamb]

i said i wouldnt be surprsed if bruno beat wlad. not that he would. id have wlad fav but id gve bruno a serous chance

imo wlad gave a career best showng vs aj who imo will show to be the top hw post lennox. but this doesnt need to just become a roundabout thread back to going after aj.

[littlepug]

Bruno did the best he could with the tools he was given and left it all in the ring every time, good enough to earn my respect

[keirw]

Bruno is a well loved and respected figure in British popular culture.

It seems to be only hardcore boxing fans who play down his achievements. Which is quite sad when you think about it

[dirk2686]

Bruno was literally a bit of a pantomime figure during his career which sometimes detracts from his ability. A legitimate monster puncher and a world champion in the end - he had a career nearly anyone starting out would kill for.

I do think people often make comparisons based on trivial links between fighters. As was said correctly in this thread earlier, a lot of the AJ comparisons are based on nothing more than both being black and well built. I remember for years before he pretty much ended up at gatekeeper level that people would talk about Broner as a version of Floyd, but never saw why beyond the fact they were both dickheads shouting about money.

[Mimmy]

Bruno was carefully managed. He didnt fight anyone of real note in his first 22 fights. Then was pitched in with Bonecrusher Smith and we know the result. In those 22 fights Bruno only fought 5 British boxers, Tony Moore, George Scott, Stuart Lithgo, Winston Allen and Eddie Neilson. those names were nothing much on the British circuit at the time. The reason for this was possibly the top British boxers at the time were managed by Terry Lawless, Horis Notice and Gary Mason for example, i'm not sure who else was doing well at the time but its possible they were in the circles and didnt want to meet up.

The first test Bruno got was getting hit by Jumbo Cummings.




Had it not been close to the end of the round Bruno would have been stopped. Cummings had a record of 14-6 coming into that fight and incidentally never fought again after after the Bruno encounter. Give Bruno his due though he came back and beat Cummings in the 7th. Cummings was no mug however, he had been in fights with Ronaldo Snipes, Joe Frazier, Mitch Green and Tim Witherspoon, fair enough got a draw with Frazier and was beat by the rest, but not knocked out, late wins or points. So Cummings on paper wasnt a bad boxer.

Bruno did fight some shite in those 22 fights before James Smith though, I mean peter kozza who at the time was 3-2 while Bruno was 11-0 and should have been possibly at tha ttime moving up to some decent British lads and possibly some decent Europeans rather than the fodder they were matching him with.

Bruno was doing well against Smith who I dont think had any amateur experience, was beat in his debut by James Broad who was only 2-0 at the time but who turned out to be a decent heavyweight. Again smith wasnt fed decent boxers on his way up to his title shot against Larry Holmes but was stopped in the 12th round of 15 and was plenty of rounds behind anyway.

Bruno came back with a stoppage over the inept Ken Lakusta who in his career had fought everyone! A few more padded records followed then the Euro title win against Anders Eklund who had previously beat unbeaten Steffen Tangstad for the title and incidentally our very own John Westgarth lost a split decision to Tangstad for the same title.

Bruno's win against Gerrie Coetzee, a ko in the first was a great win for him and showed Bruno could actually bang.



Coetzee wasnt a bad fighter and had mixed it with several world class contenders, James Tillis, Greg page, Michael Dokes and Pinklon Thomas to mention a few, so it was a great knock out win for Bruno which landed him a Heavyweight Title shot against Tim Witherspoon. I dont think Witherspoon was his best that night, I believe he was having issues with his management Don King, i'm sure there is a documentary regarding Witherspoons issues somewhere around that tells the story. Anyway Bruno was ahead until being stopped in the 11th of 15. But his stamina was showing an d with 4 more rounds to go he possibly would have gassed anyway.

A few fights later Bruno faced the old man in France, Chuck Gardner, that was such a miss match it shouldnt have happened. Then the big fight with Joe Bugner at White Hart Lane. not sure if anyone thought Bugner had much of a chance that night but as in many of his fights, didnt come to fight, just try and stay at range and keep out of arms length. Bruno dispatched Bugner in 8 rounds one more than it took Brighton's Scott Welch.

This led to the big fight with Mike tyson who at the time was going through loads of mayhem and the fight was scheduled and cancelled before they finally met in 1989. As with many boxers they had lost against Tyson before the first bell and Bruno was cacking himself, was it this fight he crossed himself so many times before the bell that he was almost the son of god. This was possibly the best time to catch Mike Tyson before James Douglas did and Bruno did have a squeek but as many before got caught and that was that. Bruno fought the wrong kind of fight, he tried to keep close to Mike pulling him in and giving a few foul shots. Tyson was deadly with uppercuts and it proved once again.

The next title shot was against Lennox Lewis and again Bruno had a good go, he was up on 2 cards before Lewis stopped him. Lennox Lewis was a cut above but not at his prime I dont think,

It didnt seem Bruno was destined to win a world title until Oliver McCall kocked out Lennox Lewis in 2 rounds then defended against an old Larry Holmes. Frank Bruno stepped Mike Evans to earn that shot. Oliver McCall was a funny character, hard as nails but very temperamental. Bruno fought a great fight tha tnight and the only issue it seemed was his energy level, he was bloody tired in the 12th but McCall couldnt get to him. Bruno held on for a decent points victory.

Bruno couldnt produce that form against Tyson when they met a second time getting stopped in 3 one sided rounds. Tyson was well past his best but I dont think Bruno had forgotten the last beating and he was never in the fight. It was a shame really that Bruno had put all that effort in to win the title after many years trying and he practically gave to to Mike Tyson that night.

Was Bruno a mocked figure? I dont think he was mocked as such. Bruno had that personality that people loved. He was a decent fighter, not many names of note that he beat, except Oliver McCall and Gerrie. He had th epwer but didnt have the all round skills to beat the top class heavyweights. Nice fella with no 'eye of the tiger'

[banjo]

I think Bonecrusher Smith was a US Marine boxing champion as an amateur Mimmy.

[Stuarty]

i said i wouldnt be surprsed if bruno beat wlad. not that he would. id have wlad fav but id gve bruno a serous chance

imo wlad gave a career best showng vs aj who imo will show to be the top hw post lennox. but this doesnt need to just become a roundabout thread back to going after aj.

I thought he was excellent against Pulev. Pulev is a decent fighter and put it on him and he answered a lot of questions that night IMO.....

[Stuarty]

Bruno was a good fighter. Built like a brick shíthouse, good fundamentals. He never had that killer instinct in him. AJ gets a lot of grief on here but the guy has a bit of fight in him. Bruno never had that IMO.

[Wa1nuts]

Great post Mimmy. were you a big fan? You remember all them fights just from memory? I was too young to remember much of Brunos career.

I think in Brunos autobiography he said in the changing rooms before the 2nd Tyson fight he had a sense of dread and that's where his depression started. Hated the way the press hounded him / mocked him when he was going through them issues.

[dirk2686]

Great post Mimmy. were you a big fan? You remember all them fights just from memory? I was too young to remember much of Brunos career.

I think in Brunos autobiography he said in the changing rooms before the 2nd Tyson fight he had a sense of dread and that's where his depression started. Hated the way the press hounded him / mocked him when he was going through them issues.

Bruno gave the press plenty of copy over the years; the way he was treated when he became ill was a disgrace. The Sun in particular treated him like a figure who should have been laughed at.

[danconnollyeire]

Bruno was literally a bit of a pantomime figure during his career which sometimes detracts from his ability. A legitimate monster puncher and a world champion in the end - he had a career nearly anyone starting out would kill for.

I do think people often make comparisons based on trivial links between fighters. As was said correctly in this thread earlier, a lot of the AJ comparisons are based on nothing more than both being black and well built. I remember for years before he pretty much ended up at gatekeeper level that people would talk about Broner as a version of Floyd, but never saw why beyond the fact they were both dickheads shouting about money.

Aye and people forget how competitive he was with Tyson... both times. He stood toe2toe with Iron Mike and gave him a lot to think about. The reason he was stopped (on his feet not KOd) was he refused to play safe and Tyson's class and powerful came through in the end

[Terminator666]

Nice to hear the Harry Carpenter commentary again

[Noxy]

He put up a good showing against Lewis. I think I had him ahead at the time of the stoppage.

[Mimmy]

I think Bonecrusher Smith was a US Marine boxing champion as an amateur Mimmy.

ah ok, thanks for clearing that up

[Mimmy]

Great post Mimmy. were you a big fan? You remember all them fights just from memory? I was too young to remember much of Brunos career.

I think in Brunos autobiography he said in the changing rooms before the 2nd Tyson fight he had a sense of dread and that's where his depression started. Hated the way the press hounded him / mocked him when he was going through them issues.

Its my era of boxing really, of course Boxrec records and youtube help with the memory but i remember the Bruno fights very well.

[bripez]

Nice to hear the Harry Carpenter commentary again

Yeah it was good that - Harry had a genuine affection for Frank I think.

[Dirk Kelly]

I love Bruno, he gave us all some great nights on the BBC. In this age of horrible, celebrity wannabes, trash talkers etc its always nice to have someone like Bruno whom the country took to their hearts.

Thought his jab was beautiful, great power with even Tyson admitting that shot he hit him with was probably the best he took.

As Mimmy's excellent summary shows he was in front in a lot of the fights he lost. Perhaps he lacked the intelligence to see a fight out or to defend when he was hurt (think he finally got it in the McCall fight as he held on for dear life at the end). Think in the Tyson fight, Lewis and one other, when he was hit and hurt, he just dropped his hands and took his beating till it was stopped.

Always remember the night after the Lewis fight I think it was BBC Sports Personality of the year and they had a video lin with Lewis with massive sunglasses on and they tried to get him to take them off and he refused. Bruno must have hurt him!

I was disappointed with him twice - second Tyson fight where for me he sold his title, he was negative and scared in the run up despite the hyperbole coming out of his month and in the ring he didn't want it. I think that must depress him as Tyson was there for the taking and he didn't take it.

The second time was when I saw in 'open' for Ricky Hatton on one if his speaking tours. Thought he came across badly, very homophobic, not the Bruno the country had fallen in love with.

[Flump]

Bruno was a very decent fighter, top 10 for a good 10 years which is impressive in itself. He just generally fell short against the real top guys but he could give anybody a fight for five rounds.

Anybody slightly sub standard got battered, he wasn't one for letting inferior opponents hang around and he wasn't scared of a rabbit punch either. I think his best period was leading into Lewis when he had hard fights with Carl Williams and Pierre Coetzer, leading on to a very creditable performance against Lewis.

If he was around now he would be top 4 IMO, someone like Pulev would get demolished by Bruno. Bellew would be a candidate for a first round highlight reel right hand, the present version of Haye would be who lands first, same with Wilder. AJ seems to have more to his game, and a fit focused Fury would start a heavy favourite to outbox him but other than those two he'd be evens against anyone now.

[bennie]

I grew up with Bruno. I remember when he broke through as an amateur by stopping the only man to beat him in the unpaid ranks: Dublin's Joe Christie, and when he dug deep to win a thrilling ABA heavyweight final in 1980 against Rudi Pika. I actually met him in June 1982 at the Leicester Square Odeon where they were showing Holmes-Cooney 'live' on the big screen. He was with Brixton sensation Tony Adams, who had just blasted his way to the ABA light-welterweight title but didn't develop as a pro under Terry Lawless and slowly faded away. Bruno also lacked career development under Lawless, who was known for matching his fighters against men with absolutely no chance of beating them and for only taking risks when he had to. This worked for most of his charges but not for Bruno (and for Adams) because Bruno could truly whack and needed several long fights to really build on that - to really season him as a fighter. Not a chance with Lawless, who matched him soft and then threw him in too deep. Tim Witherspoon arrived here looking like Mr Blobby which prompted a flood of betting on Bruno until the Londoner actually entered the ring as the favourite. He wasn't ready. Lawless persevered with the softly, softly approach until Bruno got another shot against a troubled Mike Tyson who was there for the taking but still Bruno didn't have the all-round game to capatalise on a first-round success. Not until Bruno linked up with trainer George Francis after the Tyson setback did we see a much more 'rounded' Bruno. His performance against South Africa's Pierre Coetzer in the early 1990s was Bruno at his very best and I'm convinced that Bruno would have beaten overrated puddings like Bowe or Moorer in 1993 in Cardiff but not that man Lennox Lewis, who was a bit special. In the end Bruno got his world title against the iron-jawed but fairly unremarkable Oliver McCall and good luck to him. He is a decent man who loved training and misses boxing. He just wasn't moved properly.

[Kilsby]

Great post Mimmy. were you a big fan? You remember all them fights just from memory? I was too young to remember much of Brunos career.

I think in Brunos autobiography he said in the changing rooms before the 2nd Tyson fight he had a sense of dread and that's where his depression started. Hated the way the press hounded him / mocked him when he was going through them issues.

Its my era of boxing really, of course Boxrec records and youtube help with the memory but i remember the Bruno fights very well.

Not that well........ as it was the second Bruno Vs Tyson fight he crossed himself that many times on the way to the ring - in the first one he seemed "OK"

Well, as well as one can be, fighting an unbeaten (near prime) Mike Tyson

[Taansend]

Bruno did as much for race relations in the UK as anyone.

A lovable giant who gave his all.

[paddy chavez]

frank was always considered robotic and slow at top level the americans thought he was a soft touch ,