is it just me or has bruno become a mocked fgure

[gilgamesh]

I've never seen anybody mock Frank Bruno. If you think he's mocked simply because he's not referred to as an ATG or something...I mean...that's not mocking him that's just reality.

Certainly though he's a memorable fighter, and a lot of fans still think highly of him.

[banjo]

He gave Lennox a beating before he trod on Franks foot.

[Terminator666]

Very dedicated and dertimined fighter- not too many would be successful at the fourth attempt

[thepocketrocket]

I think it is fair to say that Bruno would have mashed up Charles Martin and everyone else on AJ's record, possibly excluding Wlad....Still, if he landed on Wlad, WK not getting up.

[Jackson328]

I grew up with Bruno. I remember when he broke through as an amateur by stopping the only man to beat him in the unpaid ranks: Dublin's Joe Christie, and when he dug deep to win a thrilling ABA heavyweight final in 1980 against Rudi Pika. I actually met him in June 1982 at the Leicester Square Odeon where they were showing Holmes-Cooney 'live' on the big screen. He was with Brixton sensation Tony Adams, who had just blasted his way to the ABA light-welterweight title but didn't develop as a pro under Terry Lawless and slowly faded away. Bruno also lacked career development under Lawless, who was known for matching his fighters against men with absolutely no chance of beating them and for only taking risks when he had to. This worked for most of his charges but not for Bruno (and for Adams) because Bruno could truly whack and needed several long fights to really build on that - to really season him as a fighter. Not a chance with Lawless, who matched him soft and then threw him in too deep. Tim Witherspoon arrived here looking like Mr Blobby which prompted a flood of betting on Bruno until the Londoner actually entered the ring as the favourite. He wasn't ready. Lawless persevered with the softly, softly approach until Bruno got another shot against a troubled Mike Tyson who was there for the taking but still Bruno didn't have the all-round game to capatalise on a first-round success. Not until Bruno linked up with trainer George Francis after the Tyson setback did we see a much more 'rounded' Bruno. His performance against South Africa's Pierre Coetzer in the early 1990s was Bruno at his very best and I'm convinced that Bruno would have beaten overrated puddings like Bowe or Moorer in 1993 in Cardiff but not that man Lennox Lewis, who was a bit special. In the end Bruno got his world title against the iron-jawed but fairly unremarkable Oliver McCall and good luck to him. He is a decent man who loved training and misses boxing. He just wasn't moved properly.

Great post bennie

I agree that early Bruno was very badly built as a boxer, experience wise. He was indeed "matched too soft then thrown in too deep" as you say. I'd liked to have seen him vs Wlad peak for peak, both had world level jabs and sledgehammer straight rights, I'd favour Wlad but not by too much and would not be surprised to see Frank chin him. He just didn't seem to have that killer instinct, the only time he looked really angry was when he fought Ribalta after he'd threatened to blind Frank but it didn't last. Bruno was a great advert for race relations and promoted boxing very well too, I hope he is at peace with himself now.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I grew up with Bruno. I remember when he broke through as an amateur by stopping the only man to beat him in the unpaid ranks: Dublin's Joe Christie, and when he dug deep to win a thrilling ABA heavyweight final in 1980 against Rudi Pika. I actually met him in June 1982 at the Leicester Square Odeon where they were showing Holmes-Cooney 'live' on the big screen. He was with Brixton sensation Tony Adams, who had just blasted his way to the ABA light-welterweight title but didn't develop as a pro under Terry Lawless and slowly faded away. Bruno also lacked career development under Lawless, who was known for matching his fighters against men with absolutely no chance of beating them and for only taking risks when he had to. This worked for most of his charges but not for Bruno (and for Adams) because Bruno could truly whack and needed several long fights to really build on that - to really season him as a fighter. Not a chance with Lawless, who matched him soft and then threw him in too deep. Tim Witherspoon arrived here looking like Mr Blobby which prompted a flood of betting on Bruno until the Londoner actually entered the ring as the favourite. He wasn't ready. Lawless persevered with the softly, softly approach until Bruno got another shot against a troubled Mike Tyson who was there for the taking but still Bruno didn't have the all-round game to capatalise on a first-round success. Not until Bruno linked up with trainer George Francis after the Tyson setback did we see a much more 'rounded' Bruno. His performance against South Africa's Pierre Coetzer in the early 1990s was Bruno at his very best and I'm convinced that Bruno would have beaten overrated puddings like Bowe or Moorer in 1993 in Cardiff but not that man Lennox Lewis, who was a bit special. In the end Bruno got his world title against the iron-jawed but fairly unremarkable Oliver McCall and good luck to him. He is a decent man who loved training and misses boxing. He just wasn't moved properly.

Sorry Bennie, but bruno would have been annihilated by bowe. There was a huge gulf in class. Bowe was way better technically.

[rossij8]

Bruno Bruno chants to this day whenever he is ringside at a fight - he is loved

[jamamb]

glgamesh i dont mean to suggest bruno not beng consdered an atg is overly negatve

but it just seems to me as if a part from threads where ppl specfcally have prase in mind..the narratve on him as a boxer (maybe just among hardcores) is a great degree sad and negatve. mentaly fraglty. poor chin. awful nerves. aj bound to be 'just another' bruno/bruno 2.0 and is way overhyped.. etc. hes made out to be a sad figure even as a boxer and when prospects get mentoned with reference to bruno its usually in a negatve way (stiffness . lumbering. etc)

not just aj . seen it for dubos already too.

maybe because a britsh top 10 atg was around the same time (lennox) its just so easy to cast bruno in a negatlve lght as a boxer

[TheLeprechaun]

Bruno was carefully managed. He didnt fight anyone of real note in his first 22 fights. Then was pitched in with Bonecrusher Smith and we know the result. In those 22 fights Bruno only fought 5 British boxers, Tony Moore, George Scott, Stuart Lithgo, Winston Allen and Eddie Neilson. those names were nothing much on the British circuit at the time. The reason for this was possibly the top British boxers at the time were managed by Terry Lawless, Horis Notice and Gary Mason for example, i'm not sure who else was doing well at the time but its possible they were in the circles and didnt want to meet up.

The first test Bruno got was getting hit by Jumbo Cummings.




Had it not been close to the end of the round Bruno would have been stopped. Cummings had a record of 14-6 coming into that fight and incidentally never fought again after after the Bruno encounter. Give Bruno his due though he came back and beat Cummings in the 7th. Cummings was no mug however, he had been in fights with Ronaldo Snipes, Joe Frazier, Mitch Green and Tim Witherspoon, fair enough got a draw with Frazier and was beat by the rest, but not knocked out, late wins or points. So Cummings on paper wasnt a bad boxer.

Bruno did fight some shite in those 22 fights before James Smith though, I mean peter kozza who at the time was 3-2 while Bruno was 11-0 and should have been possibly at tha ttime moving up to some decent British lads and possibly some decent Europeans rather than the fodder they were matching him with.

Bruno was doing well against Smith who I dont think had any amateur experience, was beat in his debut by James Broad who was only 2-0 at the time but who turned out to be a decent heavyweight. Again smith wasnt fed decent boxers on his way up to his title shot against Larry Holmes but was stopped in the 12th round of 15 and was plenty of rounds behind anyway.

Bruno came back with a stoppage over the inept Ken Lakusta who in his career had fought everyone! A few more padded records followed then the Euro title win against Anders Eklund who had previously beat unbeaten Steffen Tangstad for the title and incidentally our very own John Westgarth lost a split decision to Tangstad for the same title.

Bruno's win against Gerrie Coetzee, a ko in the first was a great win for him and showed Bruno could actually bang.



Coetzee wasnt a bad fighter and had mixed it with several world class contenders, James Tillis, Greg page, Michael Dokes and Pinklon Thomas to mention a few, so it was a great knock out win for Bruno which landed him a Heavyweight Title shot against Tim Witherspoon. I dont think Witherspoon was his best that night, I believe he was having issues with his management Don King, i'm sure there is a documentary regarding Witherspoons issues somewhere around that tells the story. Anyway Bruno was ahead until being stopped in the 11th of 15. But his stamina was showing an d with 4 more rounds to go he possibly would have gassed anyway.

A few fights later Bruno faced the old man in France, Chuck Gardner, that was such a miss match it shouldnt have happened. Then the big fight with Joe Bugner at White Hart Lane. not sure if anyone thought Bugner had much of a chance that night but as in many of his fights, didnt come to fight, just try and stay at range and keep out of arms length. Bruno dispatched Bugner in 8 rounds one more than it took Brighton's Scott Welch.

This led to the big fight with Mike tyson who at the time was going through loads of mayhem and the fight was scheduled and cancelled before they finally met in 1989. As with many boxers they had lost against Tyson before the first bell and Bruno was cacking himself, was it this fight he crossed himself so many times before the bell that he was almost the son of god. This was possibly the best time to catch Mike Tyson before James Douglas did and Bruno did have a squeek but as many before got caught and that was that. Bruno fought the wrong kind of fight, he tried to keep close to Mike pulling him in and giving a few foul shots. Tyson was deadly with uppercuts and it proved once again.

The next title shot was against Lennox Lewis and again Bruno had a good go, he was up on 2 cards before Lewis stopped him. Lennox Lewis was a cut above but not at his prime I dont think,

It didnt seem Bruno was destined to win a world title until Oliver McCall kocked out Lennox Lewis in 2 rounds then defended against an old Larry Holmes. Frank Bruno stepped Mike Evans to earn that shot. Oliver McCall was a funny character, hard as nails but very temperamental. Bruno fought a great fight tha tnight and the only issue it seemed was his energy level, he was bloody tired in the 12th but McCall couldnt get to him. Bruno held on for a decent points victory.

Bruno couldnt produce that form against Tyson when they met a second time getting stopped in 3 one sided rounds. Tyson was well past his best but I dont think Bruno had forgotten the last beating and he was never in the fight. It was a shame really that Bruno had put all that effort in to win the title after many years trying and he practically gave to to Mike Tyson that night.

Was Bruno a mocked figure? I dont think he was mocked as such. Bruno had that personality that people loved. He was a decent fighter, not many names of note that he beat, except Oliver McCall and Gerrie. He had th epwer but didnt have the all round skills to beat the top class heavyweights. Nice fella with no 'eye of the tiger'

Nice post.

As far as Bruno Tyson is concerned, I don't think I've ever seen a more petrified boxer going to the ring. Bruno was absolutely terrified both times. He fought like a man who was literally fighting for his life in the first round of the first fight.Getting hammered to the floor inside 10 seconds didn't help. Holding on to Tyson and hitting was such a blatant foul but I think Bruno was on autopilot and literally fighting like a man who was thrown into a cage with a hungry lion and knew that his actual life was in immediate danger. In the second fight he was again petrified of Tyson and probably had several nightmares of the hiding he took from the first fight.

[stujones]

Bruno is some ways reminded me of Lennox, almost the tail of two careers. In Bruno's case we had the Tyson 1 and previous in which he was much faster and lighter but lacked critical experience. Post Tyson 1 - he bulked up considerably and was a much slower fighter, but more experienced with better defence and seemingly more fighting grit (he seemed to be quite dirty post Tyson 1). Similar to Lewis, who bulked up considerably post McCall 1.

I think both were better athletes in their youth, but more complete fighters with the added experience.

If we are being brutal, Bruno would have not get his third and fourth opportunities at a world title if it wasn't for him being a cult figure - I think that's why there is a negative aspect.... whilst there are plenty of Heavyweights who are worse who are world champions, there were plenty of fighters who were better who did not win a world title. I would say the 1991 version of Larry Holmes would beat any version of Bruno as an example.

[gilgamesh]

glgamesh i dont mean to suggest bruno not beng consdered an atg is overly negatve

but it just seems to me as if a part from threads where ppl specfcally have prase in mind..the narratve on him as a boxer (maybe just among hardcores) is a great degree sad and negatve. mentaly fraglty. poor chin. awful nerves. aj bound to be 'just another' bruno/bruno 2.0 and is way overhyped.. etc. hes made out to be a sad figure even as a boxer and when prospects get mentoned with reference to bruno its usually in a negatve way (stiffness . lumbering. etc)

not just aj . seen it for dubos already too.

maybe because a britsh top 10 atg was around the same time (lennox) its just so easy to cast bruno in a negatlve lght as a boxer

People definitely underestimate just how hard it is to earn ANY kind of notoriety and worldwide fame in Boxing. If you're a Top 10 contender in the World. You're obviously pretty damn good. Better than most people could ever even dream of being. So that's certainly nothing to take lightly, and Bruno was most definitely a tough and credible contender for a long while.

[HomicideHenry]

Here in the states we always referred to Frank Bruno as the "British glassjaw". That might be a very dismissive nickname for him considering he did have skills and power, But ultimately he always fell short in devastating fashion.

[Flump]

Here in the states we always referred to Frank Bruno as the "British glassjaw". That might be a very dismissive nickname for him considering he did have skills and power, But ultimately he always fell short in devastating fashion.

They were the days of deep American heavyweight dominance. Today, at worst, he would be your number 2 heavyweight. Times certainly have changed.

[HomicideHenry]

Here in the states we always referred to Frank Bruno as the "British glassjaw". That might be a very dismissive nickname for him considering he did have skills and power, But ultimately he always fell short in devastating fashion.

They were the days of deep American heavyweight dominance. Today, at worst, he would be your number 2 heavyweight. Times certainly have changed.

I cannot disagree with you on that.

[Nightmare Roy]

FB was a very good fighter, I think in this era he'd definitely be top 2. He was about when America had some quality HW's

[tobyh5]

I grew up with Bruno. I remember when he broke through as an amateur by stopping the only man to beat him in the unpaid ranks: Dublin's Joe Christie, and when he dug deep to win a thrilling ABA heavyweight final in 1980 against Rudi Pika. I actually met him in June 1982 at the Leicester Square Odeon where they were showing Holmes-Cooney 'live' on the big screen. He was with Brixton sensation Tony Adams, who had just blasted his way to the ABA light-welterweight title but didn't develop as a pro under Terry Lawless and slowly faded away. Bruno also lacked career development under Lawless, who was known for matching his fighters against men with absolutely no chance of beating them and for only taking risks when he had to. This worked for most of his charges but not for Bruno (and for Adams) because Bruno could truly whack and needed several long fights to really build on that - to really season him as a fighter. Not a chance with Lawless, who matched him soft and then threw him in too deep. Tim Witherspoon arrived here looking like Mr Blobby which prompted a flood of betting on Bruno until the Londoner actually entered the ring as the favourite. He wasn't ready. Lawless persevered with the softly, softly approach until Bruno got another shot against a troubled Mike Tyson who was there for the taking but still Bruno didn't have the all-round game to capatalise on a first-round success. Not until Bruno linked up with trainer George Francis after the Tyson setback did we see a much more 'rounded' Bruno. His performance against South Africa's Pierre Coetzer in the early 1990s was Bruno at his very best and I'm convinced that Bruno would have beaten overrated puddings like Bowe or Moorer in 1993 in Cardiff but not that man Lennox Lewis, who was a bit special. In the end Bruno got his world title against the iron-jawed but fairly unremarkable Oliver McCall and good luck to him. He is a decent man who loved training and misses boxing. He just wasn't moved properly.

Sorry Bennie, but bruno would have been annihilated by bowe. There was a huge gulf in class. Bowe was way better technically.

I just read that all then sighed, it was going so well until a ridiculous claim which then became my focus rather than the rest which was a decent post

[jamesmcdonnell]

Bruno's biggest failings were his lack of survival instinct and his predictable fighting style. He had a great jab, but the way he used it lacked variance and he threw it from a stiff uprigh stance.

I don't think any trainer could have changed that, bruno was mentally very tight and rigid, he always looked incredibly tense in the ring.

His punch power was for real, but at the top level the opponents could read too easily what was coming and make him pay.

[banjo]

Bowe was a real waste of a talent, could have been a great.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Bowe was a real waste of a talent, could have been a great.

Agreed. He had all the tools in his locker, except the discipline to maintain them. Eddie Futch lamented bowes wasted gifts.

[banjo]

Bowe was a real waste of a talent, could have been a great.

Agreed. He had all the tools in his locker, except the discipline to maintain them. Eddie Futch lamented bowes wasted gifts.

Rock Newman didn't help things either.

[TheLeprechaun]

Bowe was a real waste of a talent, could have been a great.

Watched the Olympic Final between him and Lewis recently. Bowe was handling Lewis comfortably until he got caught

[orbtastic]

As the Cummings fight commentary says, he was Ring magazine's prospect of the year in '83.

The only years Ring mag had him in their top ten was '86 (the year he lost to Tyson) and '95 (the year he won against McCall). I checked because I watched some interviews with Tyson where he said that Bruno had been rated top ten for ten years (which I didn't believe).

Was it the Lewis fight where he broke down after saying he "wasn't no Uncle Tom"? That really seemed to get inside his head.

[mickey1975]

As the Cummings fight commentary says, he was Ring magazine's prospect of the year in '83.

The only years Ring mag had him in their top ten was '86 (the year he lost to Tyson) and '95 (the year he won against McCall). I checked because I watched some interviews with Tyson where he said that Bruno had been rated top ten for ten years (which I didn't believe).

Was it the Lewis fight where he broke down after saying he "wasn't no Uncle Tom"? That really seemed to get inside his head.

Frank isn't noted for his mental strength. I've met him a few times and he was a bit odd to say the least.

[orbtastic]

I think that's possibly the mistake a lot of people make when they look at a big 6'3" guy. I mean, I get the impression when he started boxing it wasn't really something he enjoyed but other people thought he would be good at because he was a physically imposing specimen.

I know his career was nearly derailed before it began due to his eye but watching him (as I did at the time on TV) he never looks particularly comfortable or natural. He had a good jab and was always in great physical shape but he did look short of ideas at times. It's boxing, you're getting hit in the head by big blokes but he always looked utterly clueless once hit with a big shot. I think calling him glass chinned is unfair because if his chin was that bad, surely the first big shot that landed would have had him on his back. He tended to get hit and just stand there and not try and grab or survive. I guess you could call that lack of instinct.

[Mimmy]

FB was a very good fighter, I think in this era he'd definitely be top 2. He was about when America had some quality HW's

When Bruno was around back in the 80's mid 90's almost every division was full of super stars. Boxing back then was a different league to it is now. This is possibly why the younger generation arent interested in boxing these days.

To be honest I couldnt tell you a popular name in each division like I could have told you back 'in the day' of the 80's and 90's.

flyweight. Sot Chitalada
super flyweight. Khaosai Galaxy
bantamweight. Wayne McCullough
featherweight. Naseem Hamed
super featherweight. Brian Mitchell
lightweight. Billy Schwer
welterweight. Lloyd Honetghan
middleweight. Thomas Hearns (various other weights too)
supermiddle. Eubank, Benn
light heavyweight. Dennis Andries
cruiserweight. Johnny Nelson
heavyweight. Mike Tyson

off the top of my head i can list a few guys who were around and popular boxers at the time when boxing was possibly at its peak. Not suggesting these fellas above are all legends or the finest in the division but well known names boxing fans of my 'era' can pluck out of thin air.

I'm not going to embarrass myself trying to give a name who is popular in the mid 2000's to now in each division there is.