Best Long-Distance Fighter

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 19 Apr 2006, 09:17

Alright... Who were the best in 'long distance' fights? Whether it be the full fifteen or a late stoppage, who were the best at keeping their cool, surviving all the way, retaining their power and turning up the heat when necessary? Basically, the opposites of the Benns, McClellans, Tysons and Foremans...

I will say Carlos Monzon was the best. What a fantastic fighter. His stamina was extraordinary... He smoked heavily, partied until the morning, drank alcohol - even during training (of which he didn't do much). But when did you ever see him tired in a fight? He was excellent at pacing himself, and knew just the right moments when to step on the gas. Check him out as he sets the pace, counters effectively and dominates his opposition in the late rounds... Bouttier, Valdez, Briscoe, Benvenuti, Griffith - very tough men, skilled and determined, but they couldn't overcome Monzon's masterful punch placement and trickery. Aside from all that, King Carlos was always cool, never flustered, and had a chin of titanium. He had top notch survival skills, lots of experience and an icy cold, mean attitude, and he wouldn't hold back once he had his man in trouble. Watch how Bouttier, Napoles and others just can't cope with what Monzon is throwing at them... He was great at putting the hurt on. Monzon was probably the greatest one-weight champion of all time, and to me, was quite easily the best 'long-distance' fighter ever.

Honourable mentions: Gomez, Louis, Duran, Armstrong, Robinson, Sanchez

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 19 Apr 2006, 09:30

I will have to disagree about Benn. Look at the Logan and McClellen fights. He was out on his feet and came back to win. He had heart, great conditioning and could take people out in rd 1 or rd 12. He is one modern day fighter who I think could have survived the 15 rd fights and still been a World champion.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 19 Apr 2006, 09:33

Arsenal wrote:I will have to disagree about Benn. Look at the Logan and McClellen fights. He was out on his feet and came back to win. He had heart, great conditioning and could take people out in rd 1 or rd 12. He is one modern day fighter who I think could have survived the 15 rd fights and still been a World champion.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough. Benn was not a long distance fighter. His aim was to take his opponent out as quickly as possible... His stamina was good, but he burned out too quick... His chin was not particularly strong... He didn't pace himself, and he was not versatile.

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 19 Apr 2006, 10:17

Well I'd disagree again. When he moved up to SM he became a much better boxer. He changed from a fighter to someone who could box or fight. If you look at the latter part of his career he went the distance quite a few times. He chin was his weak area but his conditioing was great when he moved up to SM. I think getting to the middleweight limit took alot out of him. He was a natural SM and looked good at that weight. Don't take the Watson and first Eubank fights as an example of Benn burning out. Look at the 2nd half of his career.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 19 Apr 2006, 10:19

Look, whatever way you twist it, Benn was not an outstanding long distance fighter... Give me some better names and a little description. Someone like Alexis Arguello, for instance, and how good he was. Please do not drive us off topic over something trivial. If you want to correct me on something, then do it (though I know all about Nigel Benn, one of my favourites infact), but you could also include in your post something more constructive that fits in with the agenda.

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 19 Apr 2006, 10:39

Yes he was one of my favorites as well. The 10rd fight with McClellen was one of the most brutal fights I've ever seen. The pace and temp was above and beyond what some fighters do over 12 rds. That 10 rd fight was as tough as many 15rd fights.

Benn went the distance (10-12rds fights) 9 times. Add to that his KO% then you have a boxer who cannot only fight but box and can stop people throughout the fight. When you gave an example of Benn not being a long distance fighter I just think it was a bad comparison. Foreman, Tyson yes Benn no way. His got all the ingediants you're asking for. Benn was one of the modern day guys who could go the distance.

The point I'm making is just because they didn't fight over 15 rds doesn't mean they couldn't do it. I know Benn was explosive but later in his career he waited for the KO and if he didn't get it he could go the distance.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 19 Apr 2006, 10:59

How many late round knockouts did Benn score? That means in round ten or over. Two. Only one was against a good opponent, that being McClellan, and we know what a struggle that was. How many times was Benn stopped? Four times. How many times did he win on points by a wide margin, i.e. 'schooling' an opponent? Perhaps just once, against Jorge Amparo (Jorge who?).

Compare Benn to Carlos Monzon, for instance. Monzon stopped Nino Benvenuti and Emile Griffith in the twelfth and fourteenth rounds. Not only were they very durable, but they were two very skilled Hall of Famers. Bennie Briscoe was another top middleweight of his time... Monzon schooled him, winning by a margin of around ten points. In the first fight with Rodrigo Valdez, another great middleweight on par with Griffith and Benvenuti, Monzon won again by a substantial margin while past his best. European champion Jean-Claude Bouttier was stopped after twelve completed rounds, after having never been stopped before in sixty fights. Tony Licata was never stopped in fifty four fights, but was ruined by Monzon in ten rounds. Look at all these late round stoppages and schoolings by Monzon over durable number one contenders and/or great champions... Not only that, but Monzon was never stopped. Floored only once in the last thirteen years of his career... Add to that the fact he was never seen to be even a little tired in the ring.

Monzon was a great long distance fighter because a) he carried his power late into the fight, b) he could pace himself masterfully and turn up the heat when necessary, c) he had a chin of granite, tough skin, top survival skills and a champion's heart, making him virtually 'unknockoutable', and d) his stamina was excellent, despite spending half his training time in clubs and bars smoking and drinking as he liked. Monzon could school a top opponent for a number of rounds, spear him with precise counter punches and then knock him out in the late rounds, while barely struggling himself... That's a great long distance fighter.

There really is no comparison (not that you were comparing, but I got carried away). I know what you're trying to say, and maybe I was a little off by categorizing Benn like that... But he wasn't a good long distance fighter, especially not alongside the greats.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 19 Apr 2006, 11:02

Joe Frazier had the ablity to punch non stop and go the distance. I would say his display of enurance was impressive considering most heavyweigths have stamina problems. I remember Hagler throwing non stop punches in round fifteen just like it was the first round. Aaron Prior would have had to be in excellent condition based on the shear numbers of punches he threw. Also guys like Carmen Bassillio, and Vito Antifurmo had to be in good shape with the way they fought. Not so much trying for the one big punch but to win a war of attrition. Matthew Saad Mahamed was another guy who would wear his opponent down and then finish him off. Marciano also springs to mind.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 19 Apr 2006, 11:10

Some good names there Kick Asner, and I can agree with your picks. Yes, Hagler fought hard in the fifteenth rounds against Duran and Antuofermo, the only two times he was taken that far. He had several other late round victories over top opponents such as Monroe, Roldan, Hamsho and Mugabi.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 19 Apr 2006, 11:21

My first choice would have been Salvador Sanchez but I saw you already had him down. I assume when you had Sanchez that you meant Salvador. He had unbelievable stamina. Another guy to consider was Ali maybe not so much for his overall conditioning but for the ability to gain his second wind. Might have been a mind over matter type thing where his will to win took over as to where he forgot about being tired when he saw the fight on the line. Another guy would be Archie Moore just because of his number of fights and longevity.

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 19 Apr 2006, 11:26

As you say I wasn't comparing Monzon and Benn. But I'll still stick to my opinions that Benn could go the distance and was dangerous from the first bell to the last. I just think Benn was bad example. I think what you are trying to ask is who was the best pressure fighter because what does long distance mean? I could name many boxers who went the distance in most of their fights, some considered great others considered not big punches. The ability to go 15rds doesn't make a great long distance fighter. I think if you asked who was the best conditioned, toughest, most dangerous throughout a fight, could take punishment and come back than you could get a better type of fighter being given.

I know what you mean but I think you should have defined long distance better.

In response to your question I'd go for Hagler.

dalek · Post by **dalek** » 19 Apr 2006, 12:14

stanley ketchel could ko a man in the first,twentieth or even longer depending on the distance.he kept his power right the way through.

DoubleM · Post by **DoubleM** » 19 Apr 2006, 12:26

Arsenal wrote:As you say I wasn't comparing Monzon and Benn. But I'll still stick to my opinions that Benn could go the distance and was dangerous from the first bell to the last. I just think Benn was bad example. I think what you are trying to ask is who was the best pressure fighter because what does long distance mean? I could name many boxers who went the distance in most of their fights, some considered great others considered not big punches. The ability to go 15rds doesn't make a great long distance fighter. I think if you asked who was the best conditioned, toughest, most dangerous throughout a fight, could take punishment and come back than you could get a better type of fighter being given.

I know what you mean but I think you should have defined long distance better.

In response to your question I'd go for Hagler.

A great long distance fighter is rough, tough and determined. He is strong in the late rounds of a fight, possesses excellent stamina, can pace himself and retains his power late into the bout. Not just pressure fighters... Sanchez, Monzon, Louis, Arguello and others were not pressure fighters, but were excellent in the late rounds of a fight, still as poised, determined, accurate and powerful as they were in the first.

theone · Post by **theone** » 19 Apr 2006, 20:53

Prime Chavez was an outstanding long distance fighter. His punches seemed as hard in the 12th round as they were in the 1st.

thunderfromdownunder · Post by **thunderfromdownunder** » 20 Apr 2006, 00:43

Jeff Fenech was a little ball of energy and muscle, he reminds me of marciano or perhaps even hatton.
he could certainly fight for 15 rounds

generic screen name · Post by **generic screen name** » 20 Apr 2006, 01:03

Larry Holmes was a great long distance fighter, Pernell Whitaker, Winky Wright, alot of the old time fighters (especially since they fought 15 rounds) Robinson, Carmen Basilio, countless others

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 20 Apr 2006, 01:56

Marciano?

barry · Post by **barry** » 20 Apr 2006, 04:30

Best long distance fighters...most of the early 20th century fighters were long distance machines! George Dixon, "Mysterious" Billy Smith, George "Kid" Lavigne, Battling Nelson and Tommy Ryan were a few of the very best!

dalek · Post by **dalek** » 20 Apr 2006, 06:41

yeah theres a lot of them from that era barry and i think these fighters best fit the topic description.

Senya13 · Post by **Senya13** » 20 Apr 2006, 06:48

James Jeffries should be mentioned i think.

Migz · Post by **Migz** » 20 Apr 2006, 07:05

Yer im gonna go with Pernell Whitaker for this one! and even maybe leaning toward Ezzard Charles

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 20 Apr 2006, 22:20

barry wrote:Best long distance fighters...most of the early 20th century fighters were long distance machines! George Dixon, "Mysterious" Billy Smith, George "Kid" Lavigne, Battling Nelson and Tommy Ryan were a few of the very best!

barry I think you do have to go to history books to get the answer on this one....and you have done your homework. We shifted gears when we went to 15 rounds and I'm not sure any of the moderns can compete in this catagory and even if they could how would we know?

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 21 Apr 2006, 04:31

Frazier, Ali, Hagler, Monzon, Duran, Ray Leonard, Chavez all instantly come to mind. Pryor probably on drugs, Barry McGuigan has to get a nod if only for his amazing performance in Nevada when he was still firing loads of shots well into the championship rds....

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 21 Apr 2006, 05:37

DoubleM wrote:Alright... Who were the best in 'long distance' fights? Whether it be the full fifteen or a late stoppage, who were the best at keeping their cool, surviving all the way, retaining their power and turning up the heat when necessary? Basically, the opposites of the Benns, McClellans, Tysons and Foremans...

I will say Carlos Monzon was the best. What a fantastic fighter. His stamina was extraordinary... He smoked heavily, partied until the morning, drank alcohol - even during training (of which he didn't do much). But when did you ever see him tired in a fight? He was excellent at pacing himself, and knew just the right moments when to step on the gas. Check him out as he sets the pace, counters effectively and dominates his opposition in the late rounds... Bouttier, Valdez, Briscoe, Benvenuti, Griffith - very tough men, skilled and determined, but they couldn't overcome Monzon's masterful punch placement and trickery. Aside from all that, King Carlos was always cool, never flustered, and had a chin of titanium. He had top notch survival skills, lots of experience and an icy cold, mean attitude, and he wouldn't hold back once he had his man in trouble. Watch how Bouttier, Napoles and others just can't cope with what Monzon is throwing at them... He was great at putting the hurt on. Monzon was probably the greatest one-weight champion of all time, and to me, was quite easily the best 'long-distance' fighter ever.

Honourable mentions: Gomez, Louis, Duran, Armstrong, Robinson, Sanchez

I'd definitely go with Monzon. I'm a big fan of the man and his "Mr Nasty" (was it Griffith who gave him that tag?) demeanour.

I have to say though, I can't really believe all of the stories about his partying. I've ehard the stories about Greb and Monzon and you have to wonder if the stories of these guys missing training have been exaggerated. They were playboy types and maybe did a few things they shouldn't have but Monzon always looks in great condition to me.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 21 Apr 2006, 05:46

If you read his posts, clearly our own BrocktonBlockbuster49 is the greatest long disctance fighter.

Best Long-Distance Fighter

Best Long-Distance Fighter

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