marciano- moore

tigerpomfret · Post by **tigerpomfret** » 17 Mar 2006, 16:34

just seen this fight again,and was suprised how ameturish rock was,awful throwing wild punches,missing 9 out of 10,watch the fight,the more i see of marciano fights,tells me he really was so overated,never fought a decent fighter,except old aged comebacks,or gone by sell by date,i think he would`nt have been in the top 10 heavies from the 70`s ,i love to watch walcott out box rock,and that`s another thing,rock certainly never had a granite jaw,he was put on his ass ,even by old men,crap.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 17 Mar 2006, 21:43

Moore would tell you to watch out for that 10th one. It can be telling.

bill.lockhart · Post by **bill.lockhart** » 19 Apr 2006, 12:59

tigerpomfret wrote:just seen this fight again,and was suprised how ameturish rock was,awful throwing wild punches,missing 9 out of 10,watch the fight,the more i see of marciano fights,tells me he really was so overated,never fought a decent fighter,except old aged comebacks,or gone by sell by date,i think he would`nt have been in the top 10 heavies from the 70`s ,i love to watch walcott out box rock,and that`s another thing,rock certainly never had a granite jaw,he was put on his ass ,even by old men,crap.

At the end of the day he won... he always won. Criticizing Marciano not looking the part of the polished boxer, is absolutely irrelevant. They all looked better. All of them. I mean ALL of them. But they couldn't beat him.
49 & 0, & all 49 looked better. They looked better in his era, before his era, in to-day's era & I am most certain in tomorrow's era.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 19 Apr 2006, 16:18

Ok bill but he only had 49 trials.....many many fighters had 49 wins. Some had more than that in KO's alone. I'm not being disrespectful here, but thats not a big pool of events. Does make for some pretty good speculating on "what if".

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 19 Apr 2006, 16:49

tiger promet saw a slow, bald short crude brawler with no skill in the moore fight. i saw a tough, strong, powerul italian machine with underated defense and great inside fighting and non stop volume of punches dominate one of the greatest master boxers of all time in archie moore.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 19 Apr 2006, 17:08

Well while I agree that Rocky is overrated in some quarters to say he was crap is just stupid. When I watch Marciano I see an extremely fit, mean and courageous fighter. Technically he was actually much better than he's often given credit for... he used his size to his advantage and generally he was very accurate with his shots..... so give the guy some credit, he wasn't the best but he was an outstanding fighter and deserves more respect from the likes of you Tiger...

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 19 Apr 2006, 17:10

silkov wrote:Well while I agree that Rocky is overrated in some quarters to say he was crap is just stupid. When I watch Marciano I see an extremely fit, mean and courageous fighter. Technically he was actually much better than he's often given credit for... he used his size to his advantage and generally he was very accurate with his shots..... so give the guy some credit, he wasn't the best but he was an outstanding fighter and deserves more respect from the likes of you Tiger...

What size?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 19 Apr 2006, 17:13

i think tiger promet is making the mistake of looking at marciano as a pure boxer rather than what he is.

you cant look at marciano that way because in terms of pure boxing skill, marciano was a amatuer

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 19 Apr 2006, 17:15

pundit wrote:
silkov wrote:Well while I agree that Rocky is overrated in some quarters to say he was crap is just stupid. When I watch Marciano I see an extremely fit, mean and courageous fighter. Technically he was actually much better than he's often given credit for... he used his size to his advantage and generally he was very accurate with his shots..... so give the guy some credit, he wasn't the best but he was an outstanding fighter and deserves more respect from the likes of you Tiger...
What size?

5 feet 10...

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 19 Apr 2006, 17:31

silkov wrote:
pundit wrote:
silkov wrote:Well while I agree that Rocky is overrated in some quarters to say he was crap is just stupid. When I watch Marciano I see an extremely fit, mean and courageous fighter. Technically he was actually much better than he's often given credit for... he used his size to his advantage and generally he was very accurate with his shots..... so give the guy some credit, he wasn't the best but he was an outstanding fighter and deserves more respect from the likes of you Tiger...
What size?
5 feet 10...

How can you use this "to your advantage"? Bite your opponents in the ...?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 19 Apr 2006, 17:41

of course marciano used his size to his advantage. he used his extrmley short 67" reach to get inside where he would have a much greater advantage because of leverage, and rocky got himself into a crouch and made himself a small target making him difficult to hit cleanly.

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 19 Apr 2006, 18:03

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:of course marciano used his size to his advantage. he used his extrmley short 67" reach to get inside where he would have a much greater advantage because of leverage, and rocky got himself into a crouch and made himself a small target making him difficult to hit cleanly.

Well, this is "reach" (a limited reach doesn't help "to get inside", but once you're in it may be of use), not "size".

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 19 Apr 2006, 18:13

marciano used his size to his advantage by getting low and making himself a smaller target enabling him to be harder to hit cleanly. he also used his size to his advantage by getting inside and taking away the taller and bigger oppponents advantages on the outside

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 19 Apr 2006, 19:12

pundit wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:of course marciano used his size to his advantage. he used his extrmley short 67" reach to get inside where he would have a much greater advantage because of leverage, and rocky got himself into a crouch and made himself a small target making him difficult to hit cleanly.
Well, this is "reach" (a limited reach doesn't help "to get inside", but once you're in it may be of use), not "size".

If you don't know how a short fighter can use his size to his advantage then you havent been watching closely enough... look at Frazier, Quawi, Dick Tiger, Tyson... boxing history is full of fighters that made their shortness an advantage...

pundit · Post by **pundit** » 19 Apr 2006, 19:13

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:marciano used his size to his advantage by getting low and making himself a smaller target enabling him to be harder to hit cleanly. he also used his size to his advantage by getting inside and taking away the taller and bigger oppponents advantages on the outside

Asa a matter of fact, most of Marciano's opponents were similarly small. None was taller than 6 feet. And 6'3 Valdes didn't get a shot.

P

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 20 Apr 2006, 07:30

pundit wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:marciano used his size to his advantage by getting low and making himself a smaller target enabling him to be harder to hit cleanly. he also used his size to his advantage by getting inside and taking away the taller and bigger oppponents advantages on the outside
Asa a matter of fact, most of Marciano's opponents were similarly small. None was taller than 6 feet. And 6'3 Valdes didn't get a shot.

P

joe louis was 6'2 215lb BIGGER and BETTER than valdes. in fact joe louis in 1951 knocked out valdes in an exhibitiom.

carmine vingo was 6'4
johnny shkor was 6'4
jerry humphrey jackson was 6'4
james patrick connolley was 6'5
big bill wilson was 6'3
joe louis was 6'2
rex layne was 6'1
keene simmons was well over 6'0
gilly ferron well over 6'0, prob around 6'3

-i find it hilarious the way u try to nitpick dempsey and marcianos record

FACT: every man marciano faced over 200lb, HE KNOCKED OUT

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 20 Apr 2006, 07:34

What do you guys think of the long running rumour that the Marciano - Moore fight was fixed?

I find it hard to believe myself.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 20 Apr 2006, 07:40

KOJOE90 wrote:What do you guys think of the long running rumour that the Marciano - Moore fight was fixed?

I find it hard to believe myself.

If that fight was fixed then both guys deserve an oscar... especially Moore... you may as well say that the Thrilla in Manila was fixed as Marciano vs Moore was a brutal fight... also I think anyone who knows both Marciano and Moore knows that they both had far too much integrity to ever be involved in a fixed fight...

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 20 Apr 2006, 08:30

Same rumours surround the Moore v. Patterson fight

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 20 Apr 2006, 08:33

if it were a fix, moore never would have landed that flush straight right on marciano in the 2nd round, a punch that would have knocked out most other heavyweights in the world. why would moore risk it, if he planned to lose?

the only one who ever made that claim was sonny listons book which had many errors in it.

heres the truth to the story.........

Nick toches cites gibson as as alleging that moore had taken a dive. in an interview for this book, however, gibson indicates that tocches 'misunderstood me completley". according to gibson, the rumor of the fix, originated when gibson and jack kearns visited moore in san diego shortly after his fight with marciano. moore introduced gibson and kearns to "his partners," a couple small time gamblers. kearns promplty became enraged, asking moore "why the hell didnt u tell me these guys were your partners? they're bums, they probably had you fix a fight and you didn't tell me." therefore, kearns helped spread the rumor of a possible marciano-moore fix. " i dont think theres anything to it at all" gibson concludes.

pg. 249 "rock of his times"

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 20 Apr 2006, 08:40

I think people knock Marciano too much. He wasn't the greatest boxer, didn't fight in the greatest era and didn't beat the greatest boxers BUT he was a great fighter, dominated his era and beat everyone who was put in front of him. I think he would compete and do well in any era.

He was a tough, hard, courageous b**tard! For those who criticise his style and accuracy do you know what its like to take punch and punch on your arms and body. It isn't just the ones on your face that cause the damage. You take the amount of punches he threw on your arms and by rds 7-8 you won't be able to lift them.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 20 Apr 2006, 08:50

Arsenal wrote:It isn't just the ones on your face that cause the damage. You take the amount of punches he threw on your arms and by rds 7-8 you won't be able to lift them.

Very true. Leon Spinks was told to use this tactic by George Benton in the first Ali fight and it worked.

wouter wrote:Same rumours surround the Moore v. Patterson fight

I didn't know that.

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 20 Apr 2006, 09:41

REMEMBER...

Archie Moore called for the fight against Rocky, he was ocnviced that he had the guns to spark out The Rock...

Fact is, things went arse about face for his plans...

SHIT 1.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 20 Apr 2006, 09:43

Moore would simply never take a dive, Moore and Marciano and Patterson (since you brought his name into it) Are three of the most honorable men every to lace on the gloves.

None of them would be part of a fix, none would take a dive, and they all gave their best effort every time out. Though I typically am less impressed with Patterson's efforts when compared to the great ones.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 20 Apr 2006, 13:42

People should also remember that Moore chased Marcinao for about 2 years to get the fight... he wrote a load of open letters etc... do you think he'd do that and then take a dive!!!

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