Ali v. Frazier: The Fight of the Century (was it the best of the trilogy)

[oogiebe]

As we all know, today is the anniversary of the "Fight of the Century" between Ali and Frazier, but was it the best of the century...was it the best of even the trilogy?

Certainly we can eliminate the second fight.

My opinion is that the first fight was the greatest hyped fight in the history of boxing and lived up to its reputation, but the "Thriller in Manila" was by far the best of the series.

Thoughts?

[Kalan]

The Manila fight was no fight at all.... Frazier had severe physical problems and health issues: such as his eyesight... his enlarged heart... his extremely high blood pressure.... and his fatness.... Ali knew all about Joe's physical condition before the fight.... Ali himself came in well overweight.... These men were not at their best.

Ali play acted throughout the fight to add drama.... But I knew exactly what was going on and I always knew Ali would win by knockout.... Ali knew that no sane chief trainer would allow Frazier to come out for the 15th after Ali drove a completely exhausted Smokin' from ring post to ring post in the 14th... Give me a break -- the fight was over.

The MSG contest was actually a fight -- and a good one... Despite Ali spending considerable time resting on the ropes hiding behind his gloves.... Ali's unfortunate vulnerability to left hooks was the deciding factor in that ATG fight.... From a technical standpoint it was an abomination -- but from the standpoint of drama, you couldn't beat it.

It was a world news event... In Moscow, Beijing, London, Johannesburg, and Timbuktu... Boxing was on the map worldwide.

[HomicideHenry]

The first fight was the best fight, and both men were near or at their prime peaks. No excuses. Frazier won it wide.

The second fight, was 99% better than most fights you see today, but was the least interesting of the series as both men were just contenders at that point. It was competitive, but Joe didn't close the gap enough times to warrant a decision.

The third fight, essentially was between two men who were physical wrecks. Frazier was legally blind in both eyes and had arthritis of the spine, and Ali was slowing down at a rapid rate, relying heavily on the "Rope-A-Dope" tactics. His last kayo was over Richard Dunne, and Frazier prior to this looked incredibly bad against an equally bad Jimmy Ellis. The fact that Ali fell to the canvas afterwards and said, "Frazier quit just before I did," kind of says it all. From that point on, alot of heavy maneuvering was done to keep the title on Ali because he could have been taken out by virtually anyone in the top ten or fifteen at that point.

[gilgamesh]

The Manila fight was no fight at all.... Frazier had severe physical problems and health issues: such as his eyesight... his enlarged heart... his extremely high blood pressure.... and his fatness.... Ali knew all about Joe's physical condition before the fight.... Ali himself came in well overweight.... These men were not at their best.

Ali play acted throughout the fight to add drama.... But I knew exactly what was going on and I always knew Ali would win by knockout.... Ali knew that no sane chief trainer would allow Frazier to come out for the 15th after Ali drove a completely exhausted Smokin' from ring post to ring post in the 14th... Give me a break -- the fight was over.

The MSG contest was actually a fight -- and a good one... Despite Ali spending considerable time resting on the ropes hiding behind his gloves.... Ali's unfortunate vulnerability to left hooks was the deciding factor in that ATG fight.... From a technical standpoint it was an abomination -- but from the standpoint of drama, you couldn't beat it.

It was a world news event... In Moscow, Beijing, London, Johannesburg, and Timbuktu... Boxing was on the map worldwide.

The fact that you're acting as if Ali vs Frazier 3 was some sort of choreographed contest where Ali made it hard by taking it easy makes me want to give you the boot from this forum.

That's gotta be one of the most insulting things I've ever read about a Legendary fight and fighters. Anybody can watch that fight and see that the two fighters gave every ounce of effort they could've given, and were both thoroughly exhausted at the end of the bout.

Your acting as if it wasn't a "Fight" is a slap in the face to the Legacy of these great Champions and fight fans everywhere. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Kalan]

I don't give a damn about your stupid insults.... Frazier's terrible physical condition was widely known.... Ali knew about it.

Ali knew that Frazier couldn't put up much of a fight and his plan was to thoroughly exhaust Frazier and than knock him out... Ali had a twinge of conscience and that's why he said all the nice things he said about Frazier after the fight...

Joe never bought Ali's "niceness" though... He didn't like Ali holding a monkey on a stick... Calling it "Joe Frazier" and beating on it... Frazier was very angry at Ali and never forgave him... He was physically incapable of dealing with Ali then... But later when Ali was completely incapacitated Frazier took the occasion to publicly boast "I did that to him."

Frazier knew he's catch flack from the media for saying that, but he didn't care... He was bitter and I don't blame him.

[gilgamesh]

I didn't insult you. So you saying "I don't give a damn about your stupid insults" doesn't fit because I didn't give any. I simply stated that you're out of line to demean to Legendary fighters and a Legendary fight as if it was nothing special or as if it was something that just anybody could've done.

In fact you acting as if Ali won the 3rd fight easy would suggest to me you've never actually seen the fight because it's among the goofier things I've ever seen somebody try to suggest.

Saying that fight was "easy" for Ali is akin to saying that Water isn't wet.

[Kalan]

There's an ignorance about the sport of Boxing among many... You had one fight... got your butt beat... and wimped off

Anybody with in depth Boxing knowledge could take one look at Frazier and realize he wasn't right... His condition had been widely discussed in the media... He never would have fought Ali and Foreman if it weren't for the money... He knew he didn't have a good chance to win -- but most people would take an ass beating for millions of dollars and Joe Frazier was no exception to that rule... You probably would do it... Maybe Joe thought he could fake his way through... If you can just stand up and walk you might get lucky and throw one killer shot... Somebody wins the lottery right?

Ali did well in the first 2 Frazier fights -- even though there was a ton of clinching in the rematch, those were fights... But in the rubber match Frazier was gone... There is no way Ali could have stopped Frazier if Joe had good eyes... a healthy heart... normal blood pressure readings... or Frazier could train down to his best fighting weight of 203 to 205... Ali wasn't in the greatest shape either and he didn't have to be... and he knew it.

[DrDuke]

The first fight was the best. As it was mentioned before, in the first fight they both were in near-prime conditions, so the fight was just beautiful. While the biggest value of the third fight was its dramatic nature, as they had real bad blood, they both had already been shot in some sence (also by themselves in previous fights), furthermore, even Manila's weather had its influence. All the stuff around the fight made it really grueling.

[Crease]

Certainly we can eliminate the second fight.

The second fight was a grab fest. Ali spoiled it entirely, on another day with another (less well known) fighter, it could have been a disqualification.

[Crease]

And for me, the 3rd fight was the best. It was pure heart from both men.

[Seamus]

3rd fight had the best action.

[Ambling Alp II]

The 3rd fight was the greatest heavyweight fight I have ever seen. Both men fought a great fight. Frazier would have beaten almost anyone else with that performance.
The first was very good. Ali got tired in the mid-rounds and gave Frazier those rounds. Frazier fought a great fight.
The second fight was a tactical fight. For whatever reason, Frazier was a bit off in this one.

[oogiebe]

The Manila fight was no fight at all.... Frazier had severe physical problems and health issues: such as his eyesight... his enlarged heart... his extremely high blood pressure.... and his fatness.... Ali knew all about Joe's physical condition before the fight.... Ali himself came in well overweight.... These men were not at their best.

Ali play acted throughout the fight to add drama.... But I knew exactly what was going on and I always knew Ali would win by knockout.... Ali knew that no sane chief trainer would allow Frazier to come out for the 15th after Ali drove a completely exhausted Smokin' from ring post to ring post in the 14th... Give me a break -- the fight was over.

The MSG contest was actually a fight -- and a good one... Despite Ali spending considerable time resting on the ropes hiding behind his gloves.... Ali's unfortunate vulnerability to left hooks was the deciding factor in that ATG fight.... From a technical standpoint it was an abomination -- but from the standpoint of drama, you couldn't beat it.

It was a world news event... In Moscow, Beijing, London, Johannesburg, and Timbuktu... Boxing was on the map worldwide.

The fact that you're acting as if Ali vs Frazier 3 was some sort of choreographed contest where Ali made it hard by taking it easy makes me want to give you the boot from this forum.

That's gotta be one of the most insulting things I've ever read about a Legendary fight and fighters. Anybody can watch that fight and see that the two fighters gave every ounce of effort they could've given, and were both thoroughly exhausted at the end of the bout.

Your acting as if it wasn't a "Fight" is a slap in the face to the Legacy of these great Champions and fight fans everywhere. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Well said Gilgamesh. Kalan: Have you actually seen a fight?

[oogiebe]

I don't give a damn about your stupid insults.... Frazier's terrible physical condition was widely known.... Ali knew about it.

Ali knew that Frazier couldn't put up much of a fight and his plan was to thoroughly exhaust Frazier and than knock him out... Ali had a twinge of conscience and that's why he said all the nice things he said about Frazier after the fight...

Joe never bought Ali's "niceness" though... He didn't like Ali holding a monkey on a stick... Calling it "Joe Frazier" and beating on it... Frazier was very angry at Ali and never forgave him... He was physically incapable of dealing with Ali then... But later when Ali was completely incapacitated Frazier took the occasion to publicly boast "I did that to him."

Frazier knew he's catch flack from the media for saying that, but he didn't care... He was bitter and I don't blame him.

Kalan, you post these ridiculous rants adding NOTHING to this forum.

[BoxBuzz]

I don't give a damn about your stupid insults.... Frazier's terrible physical condition was widely known.... Ali knew about it.

Ali knew that Frazier couldn't put up much of a fight and his plan was to thoroughly exhaust Frazier and than knock him out... Ali had a twinge of conscience and that's why he said all the nice things he said about Frazier after the fight...

Joe never bought Ali's "niceness" though... He didn't like Ali holding a monkey on a stick... Calling it "Joe Frazier" and beating on it... Frazier was very angry at Ali and never forgave him... He was physically incapable of dealing with Ali then... But later when Ali was completely incapacitated Frazier took the occasion to publicly boast "I did that to him."

Frazier knew he's catch flack from the media for saying that, but he didn't care... He was bitter and I don't blame him.

Kalan, you post these ridiculous rants adding NOTHING to this forum.

oogiebe

I'm not disagreeing with you on your observation.....however...I have also observed that if you add a few "0"s to 100.....you end up with a million. So we may want to be cautious before we under rate the power of "NOTHING". :-)

[oogiebe]

I don't give a damn about your stupid insults.... Frazier's terrible physical condition was widely known.... Ali knew about it.

Ali knew that Frazier couldn't put up much of a fight and his plan was to thoroughly exhaust Frazier and than knock him out... Ali had a twinge of conscience and that's why he said all the nice things he said about Frazier after the fight...

Joe never bought Ali's "niceness" though... He didn't like Ali holding a monkey on a stick... Calling it "Joe Frazier" and beating on it... Frazier was very angry at Ali and never forgave him... He was physically incapable of dealing with Ali then... But later when Ali was completely incapacitated Frazier took the occasion to publicly boast "I did that to him."

Frazier knew he's catch flack from the media for saying that, but he didn't care... He was bitter and I don't blame him.

Kalan, you post these ridiculous rants adding NOTHING to this forum.

oogiebe

I'm not disagreeing with you on your observation.....however...I have also observed that if you add a few "0"s to 100.....you end up with a million. So we may want to be cautious before we under rate the power of "NOTHING". :-)

LOL! To quote Billy Preston..."nothin' from nothin' is...nothin'..."

[oogiebe]

I don't give a damn about your stupid insults.... Frazier's terrible physical condition was widely known.... Ali knew about it.

Ali knew that Frazier couldn't put up much of a fight and his plan was to thoroughly exhaust Frazier and than knock him out... Ali had a twinge of conscience and that's why he said all the nice things he said about Frazier after the fight...

Joe never bought Ali's "niceness" though... He didn't like Ali holding a monkey on a stick... Calling it "Joe Frazier" and beating on it... Frazier was very angry at Ali and never forgave him... He was physically incapable of dealing with Ali then... But later when Ali was completely incapacitated Frazier took the occasion to publicly boast "I did that to him."

Frazier knew he's catch flack from the media for saying that, but he didn't care... He was bitter and I don't blame him.

Kalan...serious question...with the way you negatively dissect every topic, do you actually ever just enjoy a fight? Sometimes we chat about the entertainment value (Foreman/Lyle...Wilder/Ortiz...weren't there to parry and shuffle) in and of itself. Just saying.

[Kalan]

I enjoy fights more than anyone if they're good fights... I love to watch Mikey, Lomachenko, Crawford, Spence, Canelo, Golovkin, Jack, Bivol, Kovalev, Usyk, Joshua and quite a few other boxers who are good performers and up and comers...

I don't particularly like the generations old practice of venerating mediocre boxers of the past -- and comparing them favorably to contemporary boxers who would have slaughtered them.. However, that's been going on forever and I'm not going to change it. People are always going to have overblown nostalgia for heroes of their youth.. It doesn't mean I can't try to set the record straight and remind people of the lame competition and the bad losses their ancient heroes have suffered. There is also a strong bias against non-American boxers, particularly those from Eastern Europe.

The other thing is, I don't like watching fighters who are always grabbing and holding, backhanding, palming, head knocking, hitting on the break, hitting low, rabbit punching, shoving, elbowing, and wrestling... I hate biased and corrupt referees who let them get away with it, judges who are bought, and corrupt boxing commissions, orgs, and VADA...

I didn't like Ali-Frazier 3 when it was fought... It wasn't fair to Frazier to fight when he was physically sick and dead meat... I hated the Ali-Holmes fight... But that's Boxing... I understand money... People do anything for money.

[SenorPipino]

Manila was the most grueling, riveting heavyweight championship fight I have ever been privileged to witness.

The skill set of both fighters had obviously declined since the original SuperFight, 4 1/2 years earlier.

But the heart, tenacity and the refuse-to-lose mentality that both Ali and Frazier displayed in a stifling hotbox of an arena, has yet to be duplicated.

One last great legendary performance by two great legendary titans of the sport.

To downplay and ridicule the unparalleled drama that unfolded that memorable morning is shameful.

[Ruthless-RKO]

I think the 3rd fight is underrated.. All 3 were good..

[Tony1244]

3rd fight may have had the best action but the first fight had the best talent.

The 2nd fight as well as Ali vs Foreman had more neck holding than ballroom dancing.

[elmersalsa]

Not only The Fight of the Century in '71 was the best heavyweight fight in boxing history, but the greatest pound per pound fight of all time.
It was a fight that had so much electricity and hype. And I didn't watch it then, but, when I see the fight on videotape, I can feel the atmosphere that it was something that has never been done before or since. Plus, the performance of these two great fighters exceeded the anticipation and hype. It had all the elements:
1. Two undefeated heavyweight champions
2. They didn't like each other
3. The fight was made at the Madison Square Garden in New York City, the Mecca of boxing
4. Both got paid $2.5 million dollars. A world record share for a fight.
5. Movie and singing stars were there. I think it was the first time that so many top celebrities were witnessing a fight in an arena.
6. The fight was transmitted live to almost all over the world. It was not just a fight, but an event that every super fight in history is measured of.
7. And the fight itself gave us lots of drama. That 15th round knockdown was the icing of the cake for a great fight even if the great Muhammad Ali would have never gotten up. But the fact that he got up made it more dramatic. It was the great Smokin'Joe Frazier's finest hour.

Of the three fights, I rank them like this:
1. Fight #1
2. Fight #3
3. Fight #2

[oogiebe]

Not only The Fight of the Century in '71 was the best heavyweight fight in boxing history, but the greatest pound per pound fight of all time.
It was a fight that had so much electricity and hype. And I didn't watch it then, but, when I see the fight on videotape, I can feel the atmosphere that it was something that has never been done before or since. Plus, the performance of these two great fighters exceeded the anticipation and hype. It had all the elements:
1. Two undefeated heavyweight champions
2. They didn't like each other
3. The fight was made at the Madison Square Garden in New York City, the Mecca of boxing
4. Both got paid $2.5 million dollars. A world record share for a fight.
5. Movie and singing stars were there. I think it was the first time that so many top celebrities were witnessing a fight in an arena.
6. The fight was transmitted live to almost all over the world. It was not just a fight, but an event that every super fight in history is measured of.
7. And the fight itself gave us lots of drama. That 15th round knockdown was the icing of the cake for a great fight even if the great Muhammad Ali would have never gotten up. But the fact that he got up made it more dramatic. It was the great Smokin'Joe Frazier's finest hour.

Of the three fights, I rank them like this:
1. Fight #1
2. Fight #3
3. Fight #2

Nice!

[BoxBuzz]

The three fights play out as one....with Frazier winning the early rounds......things then begin to turn around......and in the end only one man is standing.....and even that man falls down....after both give everything they have in them.......and then some.

[Kalan]

It was the Ali-Holmes scenario... Frazier had physical disabilities and shouldn't have been allowed to box.

The rest of his life would have been much better if his last couple of ring appearances were prohibited by doctors... Nothing is worse than an obviously damaged boxer taking more blows to the head... He hasn't been hurt enough???