Why Wilder would beat Joshua

[oogiebe]

While AJ has the advantage in ring schooling and all around skill, he is too plodding, and with little or no head movement would be a target for Wilder. I'm not saying 100%, but too many seem to dismiss Wilder, perhaps in denial, perhaps in ignorance, and mostly just folks opinion.

To say AJ would pound Wilder is just complete lunacy. I believe Joshua could not have withstood the 7th round Ortiz beating on Wilder (yes, perhaps AJ wouldn't have been in that position, blah blah blah). Wilder never went down and, like AJ v. Klitchko, he came back and ko'ed his opponent. Here are some points I believe are critical to the fight

Wilder's Jab:
Will be the biggest surprise v. Joshua as AJ is more suited to Wilder being orthodox.

Distance:
This is where the fight will be won or lost. If Wilder controls the distance with his athleticism and quickness.

Aj's Discipline:
Wilder MUST respect AJ as a fighter and will be exposed to AJ's uppercut (deadly) if no changes are made for this fight.

Wilder's Power:
First solid right hand will tell us a lot, but I suspect Wilder's left hook would be very damaging as AJ leaves his right side wide open when he jabs or prepares to throw combinations.

AJ's power:
Not as 'lights out" as Wilder, but still dangerous to any opponent. Wilder is not so difficult to hit, however; he proved he could take multiple shots and has learned to clinch (which pleasantly surprised me v. Ortiz).

Wilder's Wilding:
My biggest concern for Wilder is IF he hurts AJ, he could get clipped if he tries his helicopter barrage, as AJ's wouldn't just cover-up and hide.

Wild Card (no pun intended): This fight could come down to heart; endurance, and Wilder having a better chin than Joshua.

Remember...this is my opinion...so let's not just attack the poster. Some intelligent and respectful responses would be preferred.

Best part...it should be a great fight!

[jamamb]

ya there are some arguments in favour of wilder. personally though i think for him it would mainly be speed and stamina and coming through tough spots to outlast a fatigued joshua. or just landing a big hayemaker. when it gets into more of the skill based stuff i have a hard time seeing much edge for dw. also think you make some assumptions that i dont really see much evidence for, like wilder controlling distance

I believe Joshua could not have withstood the 7th round Ortiz beating on Wilder (yes, perhaps AJ wouldn't have been in that position, blah blah blah).

1. why dont you think he couldve? he survived a lot of good punches from a very good puncher in wlad, and he was fatigued from throwing a huge flurry in the previous round when he went down vs wlad. wilder on the other hand got hurt fresh vs ortiz. of course aj getting tired is deffo a point to take note of, but in terms of taking what wilder did when wilder did, im not really so sure aj wouldnt have been able to

also, before ortiz, wilder had been dropped (apparently hard) by sconiers and rocked by molina, so i wouldnt say there was any more evidence he could survive a big assault then there is now for aj. ive seen a lot of ppl who seem to think staying up vs ortiz means wilder simply cant go down or be stopped, which is nonsense. khan stayed up vs maidana too and we know his chin.

2. its perfectly fair to think aj would not have been in that position. he is generally open less and makes fewer mistakes. thats relevant not only to a hypothetical ortiz fight but also vs wilder. not a blah blah blah point

Distance:
This is where the fight will be won or lost. If Wilder controls the distance with his athleticism and quickness

i really dont see much evidence that wilder would have distance controlled. theyre about the same height and reach and wilder has repeatedly had guys worse and/or short then aj get in. wilder simply being a quick athletic guy in no way means hed control distance, there is a big skill aspect to that too and hes not so strong in that respect.

Wilder's Jab:
Will be the biggest surprise v. Joshua as AJ is more suited to Wilder being orthodox.

wilders jab really hasnt been much of a factor tbh in fights, at least as a sustained weapon. it was good for stiverne (much worse and shorter then aj) but not really for much else. i thought washington and shorter ortiz outjabbed him. i dont really see much evidence to think his jab is superior to ajs or will be a big factor. just because your tall doesnt mean your jab is top stuff, and aj is about the same dimensions as wilder

Wilder's Power:
First solid right hand will tell us a lot, but I suspect Wilder's left hook would be very damaging as AJ leaves his right side wide open when he jabs or prepares to throw combinations.

could be but wilders left hook is more of a set up punch isnt it. some fights he rarely throws it at all too, hes mainly just a right hand bomber. aj has a much more diverse punch kit to exploit the openings. but any flush power shot from wilder can do damage. maybe wilder would work on throwing the left more, but cant really assume he would.

personally i think they each have more then enough power to seriously hurt and stop the other

AJ's power:
Not as 'lights out" as Wilder, but still dangerous to any opponent. Wilder is not so difficult to hit, however; he proved he could take multiple shots and has learned to clinch (which pleasantly surprised me v. Ortiz).

aj proved he can take multiple shots too. remember he hasnt been down or hurt anymore then wilder has. and hes overcome adversity and shown recover and heart too.

personally i think aj is far more dangerous then ortiz too, and i think wilder is more dangerous then old wlad. so i think each guy could put the other beyond a point of trouble theyve ever been in

Wild Card (no pun intended): This fight could come down to heart; endurance, and Wilder having a better chin than Joshua.

is wilders chin better? down vs sconiers, rocked by molina, badly badly hurt by ortiz

whereas aj down vs wlad and rocked by whyte

[oogiebe]

ya there are some arguments in favour of wilder. personally though i think for him it would mainly be speed and stamina and coming through tough spots to outlast a fatigued joshua. or just landing a big hayemaker. when it gets into more of the skill based stuff i have a hard time seeing much edge for dw.

I believe Joshua could not have withstood the 7th round Ortiz beating on Wilder (yes, perhaps AJ wouldn't have been in that position, blah blah blah).

1. why dont you think he couldve? he survived a lot of good punches from a very good puncher in wlad. before ortiz, wilder had been dropped by sconiers and rocked by molina, so i wouldnt say there wasnt any more evidence he could survive a big assault then there is now for aj. ive seen a lot of ppl who seem to think staying up vs ortiz means wilder simply cant go down or be stopped, which is nonsense. khan stayed up vs maidana too and we know his chin.

2. its perfectly fair to think aj would not have been in that position. he is generally open less and makes fewer mistakes. thats relevant not only to a hypothetical ortiz fight but also vs wilder. not a blah blah blah point

Distance:
This is where the fight will be won or lost. If Wilder controls the distance with his athleticism and quickness

i really dont see much evidence that wilder would have distance controlled. theyre about the same height and reach and wilder has repeatedly had guys worse then aj get in. wilder simply being a quick athletic guy in no way means hed control distance, there is a big skill aspect to that too and hes not so strong in that respect.

Wilder's Jab:
Will be the biggest surprise v. Joshua as AJ is more suited to Wilder being orthodox.

wilders jab really hasnt been much of a factor tbh in fights, at least as a sustained weapon. it was good for stiverne (much worse and shorter then aj) but not really for much else. i thought washington and shorter ortiz outjabbed him. i dont really see much evidence to think his jab is superior to ajs or will be a big factor. just because your tall doesnt mean your jab is top stuff, and aj is about the same dimensions as wilder

Wilder's Power:
First solid right hand will tell us a lot, but I suspect Wilder's left hook would be very damaging as AJ leaves his right side wide open when he jabs or prepares to throw combinations.

could be but wilders left hook is more of a set up punch isnt it. some fights he rarely throws it at all too, hes mainly just a right hand bomber. aj has a much more diverse punch kit to exploit the openings. but any flush power shot from wilder can do damage. maybe wilder would work on throwing the left more, but cant really assume he would.

AJ's power:
Not as 'lights out" as Wilder, but still dangerous to any opponent. Wilder is not so difficult to hit, however; he proved he could take multiple shots and has learned to clinch (which pleasantly surprised me v. Ortiz).

aj proved he can take multiple shots too. remember he hasnt been down or hurt anymore then wilder has. and hes overcome adversity and shown recover and heart too.

personally i think aj is far more dangerous then ortiz too, and i think wilder is more dangerous then old wlad. so i think each guy could put the other beyond a point of trouble theyve ever been in

Wild Card (no pun intended): This fight could come down to heart; endurance, and Wilder having a better chin than Joshua.

is wilders chin better? down vs sconiers, rocked by molina, badly badly hurt by ortiz

whereas aj down vs wlad and rocked by whyte

Wilder's hook became a weapon several fights ago. Whether or not he has the discipline to use it that way is another question. His jab is better than shown in Ortiz fight, I think because of Ortiz being a southpaw wilder being poorly schooled. There's a great YouTube video on Wilder working the mitts. He really snapped it during the second Stiverne fight (rollover).

Great job and great argument, but I still stick to my guns...I really hope we see this year!

[jamamb]

i think a lot of ppl assume because hes tall and rangy wilder has a really good jab, but tbh i havent seen it as that impressive, at least not to the extent that i think hes shown it clearly better then aj. he used it well for short super plodding (worse then aj) stiverne, but not much else. it may look good on pads but honestly in the actual fights it wasnt any better then ortiz, washington, or even szpilkas.

ya i really hope we see it too, the #1 must happen fight right now

[Badhusker]

In my own estimation, Wilder is either not that smart or he isn't being coached properly. He showed flashes of a vicious snapping jab against Ortiz, but that is all it was....2 or 3. Wouldn't you think Breland, who had a great jab himself, would have developed Wilder's jab more that what he has? Wilder could totally control fights with it, and it sets up his big right. Maybe I don't know crap, but I think the jab is the most under-rated and under used punch in boxing.

[oogiebe]

In my own estimation, Wilder is either not that smart or he isn't being coached properly. He showed flashes of a vicious snapping jab against Ortiz, but that is all it was....2 or 3. Wouldn't you think Breland, who had a great jab himself, would have developed Wilder's jab more that what he has? Wilder could totally control fights with it, and it sets up his big right. Maybe I don't know crap, but I think the jab is the most under-rated and under used punch in boxing.

The jab is THE most important weapon. You are correct IMO. Like I said, Wilder lacks the schooling but has the skill set. Discipline should be his focus.

[punchoutsb]

Wilder doesn't have a good jab, he hardly ever uses it so I don't know where that is coming from.

If you're asking why Wilder *could* beat AJ, it comes down to massive power and heart. There doesn't seem to be any quit in him.

That being said, AJ also has fight ending power and great heart. He came through a similar situation that Wilder just did, only he did it against a much better fighter in every way.

The fight is a 50/50, though if pressed to give an edge right now I would actually lean a little to Wilder because he seems to have a little bit better stamina. His chin is shaky, surviving round 7 doesn't change that. It's not glass like many thought, but if AJ lands is good night. It's the only fight to make at HW until Fury comes back.

[oogiebe]

Wilder doesn't have a good jab, he hardly ever uses it so I don't know where that is coming from.

If you're asking why Wilder *could* beat AJ, it comes down to massive power and heart. There doesn't seem to be any quit in him.

That being said, AJ also has fight ending power and great heart. He came through a similar situation that Wilder just did, only he did it against a much better fighter in every way.

The fight is a 50/50, though if pressed to give an edge right now I would actually lean a little to Wilder because he seems to have a little bit better stamina. His chin is shaky, surviving round 7 doesn't change that. It's not glass like many thought, but if AJ lands is good night. It's the only fight to make at HW until Fury comes back.

I wholeheartedly agree with your last statement. Probably why all we talk about is Joshua/Wilder.

[Boxing Writer]

In my own estimation, Wilder is either not that smart or he isn't being coached properly. He showed flashes of a vicious snapping jab against Ortiz, but that is all it was....2 or 3. Wouldn't you think Breland, who had a great jab himself, would have developed Wilder's jab more that what he has? Wilder could totally control fights with it, and it sets up his big right. Maybe I don't know crap, but I think the jab is the most under-rated and under used punch in boxing.

I think Wilder is just not that smart. I think Breland and Deas are getting the best they can get from Wilder. AJ seems a smarter man comparing to Wilder so he was able to learn more in less years. But Wilder's awkwardness gives him some advantages the same way as Ricardo Mayorga was so dangerous because of his crazy style.

[oogiebe]

In my own estimation, Wilder is either not that smart or he isn't being coached properly. He showed flashes of a vicious snapping jab against Ortiz, but that is all it was....2 or 3. Wouldn't you think Breland, who had a great jab himself, would have developed Wilder's jab more that what he has? Wilder could totally control fights with it, and it sets up his big right. Maybe I don't know crap, but I think the jab is the most under-rated and under used punch in boxing.

I think Wilder is just not that smart. I think Breland and Deas are getting the best they can get from Wilder. AJ seems a smarter man comparing to Wilder so he was able to learn more in less years. But Wilder's awkwardness gives him some advantages the same way as Ricardo Mayorga was so dangerous because of his crazy style.

He's not dumb. He had a late start and fast track in boxing. I've said many times AJ is the better boxer. We shall see when it comes to the fight.

[Badhusker]

In my own estimation, Wilder is either not that smart or he isn't being coached properly. He showed flashes of a vicious snapping jab against Ortiz, but that is all it was....2 or 3. Wouldn't you think Breland, who had a great jab himself, would have developed Wilder's jab more that what he has? Wilder could totally control fights with it, and it sets up his big right. Maybe I don't know crap, but I think the jab is the most under-rated and under used punch in boxing.

I think Wilder is just not that smart. I think Breland and Deas are getting the best they can get from Wilder. AJ seems a smarter man comparing to Wilder so he was able to learn more in less years. But Wilder's awkwardness gives him some advantages the same way as Ricardo Mayorga was so dangerous because of his crazy style.

He's not dumb. He had a late start and fast track in boxing. I've said many times AJ is the better boxer. We shall see when it comes to the fight.

The better boxer doesn't always win. Ortiz is a better boxer than Wilder, but he was KO'd.

[oogiebe]

I think Wilder is just not that smart. I think Breland and Deas are getting the best they can get from Wilder. AJ seems a smarter man comparing to Wilder so he was able to learn more in less years. But Wilder's awkwardness gives him some advantages the same way as Ricardo Mayorga was so dangerous because of his crazy style.

He's not dumb. He had a late start and fast track in boxing. I've said many times AJ is the better boxer. We shall see when it comes to the fight.

The better boxer doesn't always win. Ortiz is a better boxer than Wilder, but he was KO'd.

Exactly...

[KiwiRider]

That's a nice breakdown there Oggie.
Mentioning Wilders jab and leaving out AJ's jab?
AJ's jab has caused knock downs, Ortiz nullified Wilders jab from the first bell until he faded...

[Boxing Writer]

In my own estimation, Wilder is either not that smart or he isn't being coached properly. He showed flashes of a vicious snapping jab against Ortiz, but that is all it was....2 or 3. Wouldn't you think Breland, who had a great jab himself, would have developed Wilder's jab more that what he has? Wilder could totally control fights with it, and it sets up his big right. Maybe I don't know crap, but I think the jab is the most under-rated and under used punch in boxing.

I think Wilder is just not that smart. I think Breland and Deas are getting the best they can get from Wilder. AJ seems a smarter man comparing to Wilder so he was able to learn more in less years. But Wilder's awkwardness gives him some advantages the same way as Ricardo Mayorga was so dangerous because of his crazy style.

He's not dumb. He had a late start and fast track in boxing. I've said many times AJ is the better boxer. We shall see when it comes to the fight.

He definitely isn't dumb, but he isn't that smart either. But he is extremely gifted physically and his unothodox style makes him dangerous.

[oogiebe]

I think Wilder is just not that smart. I think Breland and Deas are getting the best they can get from Wilder. AJ seems a smarter man comparing to Wilder so he was able to learn more in less years. But Wilder's awkwardness gives him some advantages the same way as Ricardo Mayorga was so dangerous because of his crazy style.

He's not dumb. He had a late start and fast track in boxing. I've said many times AJ is the better boxer. We shall see when it comes to the fight.

He definitely isn't dumb, but he isn't that smart either. But he is extremely gifted physically and his unothodox style makes him dangerous.

Boxing Writer: Stop being so dang logical and smart!

[oogiebe]

That's a nice breakdown there Oggie.
Mentioning Wilders jab and leaving out AJ's jab?
AJ's jab has caused knock downs, Ortiz nullified Wilders jab from the first bell until he faded...

True, but again, fighting a lefty makes it awkward to use the jab unless one is DISCIPLINED, which Deontay struggles with. AJ's jab is adequate. Not impressed by jab knockdowns, like Holmes v. Ocassio. No one said AJ isn't powerful.

[KiwiRider]

That's a nice breakdown there Oggie.
Mentioning Wilders jab and leaving out AJ's jab?
AJ's jab has caused knock downs, Ortiz nullified Wilders jab from the first bell until he faded...

True, but again, fighting a lefty makes it awkward to use the jab unless one is DISCIPLINED, which Deontay struggles with. AJ's jab is adequate. Not impressed by jab knockdowns, like Holmes v. Ocassio. No one said AJ isn't powerful.

Fair point
I just remember Washington giving Wilder all sorts of problems with his jab for 3 rounds and think AJ with a jab twice as powerful would be considered a valuable weapon in is arsenal against Wilder.

[oogiebe]

That's a nice breakdown there Oggie.
Mentioning Wilders jab and leaving out AJ's jab?
AJ's jab has caused knock downs, Ortiz nullified Wilders jab from the first bell until he faded...

True, but again, fighting a lefty makes it awkward to use the jab unless one is DISCIPLINED, which Deontay struggles with. AJ's jab is adequate. Not impressed by jab knockdowns, like Holmes v. Ocassio. No one said AJ isn't powerful.

Fair point
I just remember Washington giving Wilder all sorts of problems with his jab for 3 rounds and think AJ with a jab twice as powerful would be considered a valuable weapon in is arsenal against Wilder.

Not sure if AJ's jab is twice as powerful, but it is more sound than Wilder's. Remember this: Wilder is exciting because he's a bit vulnerable. But...you have to do something right to be 40-0 with 39 ko's and the WBC championship no matter who you've fought. Until someone beats him, we'll have to put up with him. Thanks Kiwi!

[oogiebe]

Generally speaking, many of us are using troubles with this fighter or that fighter to make a statement. Deontay is a very exciting heavyweight...maybe the best, maybe not, but let's remember how time treats certain challenges in one's career.

Joe Louis had some issues with several fighters the first time he faced them (Arturo Godoy; Walcott; Abe Simon to some extent) as well as other greats. It's how it ends that we see in the record book. Every great fighter has had a squeaker or stinker from time to time. Deontay is still a work in process, and to be fair and scary as it sounds, so is AJ.

[Kalan]

Joe Louis had some issues with several fighters the first time he faced them (Arturo Godoy; Walcott; Abe Simon to some extent) as well as other greats.

OTHER greats???? Godoy and Simon weren't "greats." They were terrible... Walcott is a stretch... Walcott fought 8 World Title Fights and LOST 6 of them... He only beat Charles who was on the slide... Charles beat Walcott the first 2 X they fought.

I suppose you could argue that Schmeling was great because he knocked Louis cold... Schmeling lost a lot of fights, but won the Heavyweight Championship on a Sharkey foul and defended it successfully against Young Stribling, who was more of a Light Heavyweight than anything, before losing it back to Sharkey his next fight.

I don't think Louis had a lot of issues with Godoy or Simon the first time he fought them... They looked pathetic... Louis definitely had issues with Schmeling because he got stretched for the count... I've never seen Schmeling box near that well for any of his other fights that are on the Internet.. That was his peak fight, he was so confident.. He looked like Douglas versus Tyson.. Buster blasted the shitt out of Mike like he was the favorite.

The issues Wilder was having with Ortiz were big ones... Ortiz is a fat old man and he nearly put Wilder out... The referee pretty much won that fight for Wilder when he gave him a couple minutes to recover from punches that put him on queer street.... When Joshua nails Wilder he's so strong that Deontay won't be able to grab him and lean all over him... AJ will finish him, probably in the first 5 or 6 rounds and it won't be fought at such a slow pace as Wilder-Ortiz.

The fight will be fought in the UK and there will be a neutral referee... Joshua will have 30 pounds on Wilder... He'll have size, strength, skill, speed, smarts, and home ring advantage... Shitt is going down.

[oogiebe]

Joe Louis had some issues with several fighters the first time he faced them (Arturo Godoy; Walcott; Abe Simon to some extent) as well as other greats.

OTHER greats???? Godoy and Simon weren't "greats." They were terrible... Walcott is a stretch... Walcott fought 8 World Title Fights and LOST 6 of them... He only beat Charles who was on the slide... Charles beat Walcott the first 2 X they fought.

I suppose you could argue that Schmeling was great because he knocked Louis cold... Schmeling lost a lot of fights, but won the Heavyweight Championship on a Sharkey foul and defended it successfully against Young Stribling, who was more of a Light Heavyweight than anything, before losing it back to Sharkey his next fight.

I don't think Louis had a lot of issues with Godoy or Simon the first time he fought them... They looked pathetic... Louis definitely had issues with Schmeling because he got stretched for the count... I've never seen Schmeling box near that well for any of his other fights that are on the Internet.. That was his peak fight, he was so confident.. He looked like Douglas versus Tyson.. Buster blasted the shitt out of Mike like he was the favorite.

The issues Wilder was having with Ortiz were big ones... Ortiz is a fat old man and he nearly put Wilder out... The referee pretty much won that fight for Wilder when he gave him a couple minutes to recover from punches that put him on queer street.... When Joshua nails Wilder he's so strong that Deontay won't be able to grab him and lean all over him... AJ will finish him, probably in the first 5 or 6 rounds and it won't be fought at such a slow pace as Wilder-Ortiz.

The fight will be fought in the UK and there will be a neutral referee... Joshua will have 30 pounds on Wilder... He'll have size, strength, skill, speed, smarts, and home ring advantage... Shitt is going down.

The point is that every, and I mean EVERY fighter has his share of poor performances or fights someone that makes them look bad. Your penchant for negativity and harsh responses is getting tiring. If that's your MO (and it seems to be) stay off my shit. Seems like everyone else (for the most part) shows respect and is open to learning something new.

[gilgamesh]

I'd never say for sure that either of these guys WILL beat the other. Both have a very realistic chance, and I could easily see either fighter winning.

Boldly claiming that one or the other will definitely win given what we've seen of them both seems foolish as they both obviously have the tools and the power to finish each other off.

[oogiebe]

I'd never say for sure that either of these guys WILL beat the other. Both have a very realistic chance, and I could easily see either fighter winning.

Boldly claiming that one or the other will definitely win given what we've seen of them both seems foolish as they both obviously have the tools and the power to finish each other off.

You are correct. People see what they want so they can post something that makes them feel smart and look silly.

[bbjc]

Honestly see it as an easy fight for Joshua. Wilder will always have that punchers chance but that's all it is. Wilders really a spoiler at heart...he,s only fought one decent opponent. A guy that was old, slow of foot, made for him and who he had height/reach advantages over. Hes never fought a decent fighter with similar reach/height than him. That's when the holes in his game will get exposed big time. He just negates the other guys work the higher up he's went. He does it either with his advantages...or the other guys just not being very good. Stays out of range from the smaller guys pretty well tbf...cause he can move a bit. As soon as he comes up against someone that doesn't need to get inside to hurt him he,ll fall apart.

Compare there fights with Molina...Joshua banged him out without breaking a sweat. And yet he rocked wilder a few times in that fight. I m not sure Molina even hit Joshua. Can see Joshua punching him all over the ring. Joshua will have bigger problems with other guys. Wilder will give the smaller guys nitemares. He,all struggle against anyone decent with similar length/height to him.

[oogiebe]

Honestly see it as an easy fight for Joshua. Wilder will always have that punchers chance but that's all it is. Wilders really a spoiler at heart...he,s only fought one decent opponent. A guy that was old, slow of foot, made for him and who he had height/reach advantages over. Hes never fought a decent fighter with similar reach/height than him. That's when the holes in his game will get exposed big time. He just negates the other guys work the higher up he's went. He does it either with his advantages...or the other guys just not being very good. Stays out of range from the smaller guys pretty well tbf...cause he can move a bit. As soon as he comes up against someone that doesn't need to get inside to hurt him he,ll fall apart.

Compare there fights with Molina...Joshua banged him out without breaking a sweat. And yet he rocked wilder a few times in that fight. I m not sure Molina even hit Joshua. Can see Joshua punching him all over the ring. Joshua will have bigger problems with other guys. Wilder will give the smaller guys nitemares. He,all struggle against anyone decent with similar length/height to him.

I beg to disagree, but rather than get into a back and forth, let's just see what happens. I understand the feelings fans have for Joshua, but he's still a pup and has flaws.