Should Superflyweights earn more?

[halfamill]

Should these guys who are main eventing SuperFly cards earn the same as guys like Kovalev, Jacobs, D.Garcia, Thurman, and countless other guys who are fighting guys who are outside the top 10? Some people would argue no because they don't bring any fans. But they have had good ratings on HBO and have had good attendance numbers. Can someone explain why their pay is so low despite their level of competition?

[oogiebe]

Should these guys who are main eventing SuperFly cards earn the same as guys like Kovalev, Jacobs, D.Garcia, Thurman, and countless other guys who are fighting guys who are outside the top 10? Some people would argue no because they don't bring any fans. But they have had good ratings on HBO and have had good attendance numbers. Can someone explain why their pay is so low despite their level of competition?

Just like other athletes, your pay is on par with the revenues you generate, fair or not. Perhaps a somewhat more equitable pay share from the entire card's receipts would help it be more in order. (can you say "profit sharing?")

[Grant]

Bums on seats....

[Mexi-Box]

Not if they're bringing in less fans, no. The thing you should be asking is if casual fans should respect their craft more. At the moment, it's insane that TBRB and Ring doesn't have Sor Rungvisai as the p4p #1. Any clear fan of the sport would agree that he's consensus #1. It's not close with any other fighter.

[jamamb]

what are the ratings and attendence etc

are they really that poor now compared to what other bigger weight fighters are doing now

[SenorPipino]

Almost 25 years ago to this day, flyweights Carbajal and Chiquita Gonzalez each earned a division record $1 million each for their unforgettable title unification bout.

They received that amount because fight fans were enormously interested in seeing a showdown between the 2.

And they put on a battle worthy of those record purses.

If the interest was at that same level for any of today's little guys, they too would receive paychecks commensurate to what the heavier stars receive.

Unfortunately the Sor Rungvasais, Estradas, Chocolotitos and Inoues simply don't generate that level of interest, no matter how talented and exciting they might be.

[tiny_acres]

Almost 25 years ago to this day, flyweights Carbajal and Chiquita Gonzalez each earned a division record $1 million each for their unforgettable title unification bout.

They received that amount because fight fans were enormously interested in seeing a showdown between the 2.

And they put on a battle worthy of those record purses.

If the interest was at that same level for any of today's little guys, they too would receive paychecks commensurate to what the heavier stars receive.

Unfortunately the Sor Rungvasais, Estradas, Chocolotitos and Inoues simply don't generate that level of interest, no matter how talented and exciting they might be.

I was just going to mention this fight.
Good shout out

[SenorPipino]

Thanks.

It was a memorable fight with a gutsy Carbajal rallying from the brink of defeat to KO Chiquita.

I think it was a consensus Fight of the Year.

Too bad the 2 rematches couldn't live up to the original.

[tiny_acres]

Thanks.

It was a memorable fight with a gutsy Carbajal rallying from the brink of defeat to KO Chiquita.

I think it was a consensus Fight of the Year.

Too bad the 2 rematches couldn't live up to the original.

Rematches hardly ever live up to the original

[SenorPipino]

Chiquita fought scared in the sequels.

He used his greater speed to maybe outbox Carbajal by a hair, but he never opened up and showcased his power.

The KO loss rattled him.

One reason there was so much clamor for a showdown between these 2 flyweight was the amount of television exposure they received.

As an Olympic medalist, Carbajal was featured on quite a few afternoon network boxing telecasts.

And Chiquita frequently appeared at the L.A. Forum defending his title on the Prime Ticket telecasts.

A lot of TV exposure was what these 2 had. And it made them millions.

That's what Sor Ringvasai and the others need to attract attention, gain a name and start earning the kinds of purses that fighters of their talents deserve.

[KiwiRider]

I think these guys should have more coins in their pockets. If only for health and safety reasons in a strong breeze.

[Enlightened-One]

Should these guys who are main eventing SuperFly cards earn the same as guys like Kovalev, Jacobs, D.Garcia, Thurman, and countless other guys who are fighting guys who are outside the top 10? Some people would argue no because they don't bring any fans. But they have had good ratings on HBO and have had good attendance numbers. Can someone explain why their pay is so low despite their level of competition?

Fighters are paid the value they negotiate, not necessarily what they’re worth. And as a commercial business, K2 will inevitably try to maximise profit and minimise expenditure.

This seems to be an ongoing trend with K2 though, because until the David Lemieux bout, a pound-for-pound star like Gennady Golovkin was being paid significantly less than other world champions that were considered smaller names, as well as drawing smaller crowd attendances and premium cable network audience figures.

There have been many BoxRec forum debates about this topic, discussing the absurdity of this situation.

K2 have had a reputation for a while, when they try to make fights for their fighters, for submitting lowball offers to their prospective opponents, and then subsequently proclaiming “duck” whenever they’re subsequently rejected.

It helps Tom Loeffler perpetuate a myth that “nobody is willing to fight my guy…”, which seems to be an inexpensive marketing strategy that is also employed by other promoters, such as Kathy Duva’s Main Events.

I don’t feel that K2 are willing to show commitment, by investing heavily in their fighters in order to build their names, unlike Matchroom, who have openly admitted to producing loss-making events and overpaying opponents in order to generate interest in Anthony Joshua and enhance his reputation.

I strongly suspect that come Cinco de Mayo, four of GGG’s five biggest paydays were the result of appearing on fight cards that weren’t solely promoted by K2 (i.e. GBP & Matchroom either agreed to share the financial risk or they even assumed to own the vast majority of it).

[Ruthless-RKO]

Should these guys who are main eventing SuperFly cards earn the same as guys like Kovalev, Jacobs, D.Garcia, Thurman, and countless other guys who are fighting guys who are outside the top 10? Some people would argue no because they don't bring any fans. But they have had good ratings on HBO and have had good attendance numbers. Can someone explain why their pay is so low despite their level of competition?

I don’t feel that K2 are willing to show commitment, by investing heavily in their fighters in order to build their names, unlike Matchroom, who have openly admitted to producing loss-making events and overpaying opponents in order to generate interest in Anthony Joshua and enhance his reputation.

I strongly suspect that come Cinco de Mayo, four of GGG’s five biggest paydays were the result of appearing on fight cards that weren’t solely promoted by K2 (i.e. GBP & Matchroom).

..
GGG earned

$2m vs. Wade
$1.5m vs. Monroe
$900k vs. Rubio (not including any add on's or the $100k from Rubio's purse)
$750k vs. Geale
$400k vs. Stevens

It has increased rapidly. He also for $2 guarantee vs. Lemieux, I think K2 promoted that PPV.

[Enlightened-One]

Should these guys who are main eventing SuperFly cards earn the same as guys like Kovalev, Jacobs, D.Garcia, Thurman, and countless other guys who are fighting guys who are outside the top 10? Some people would argue no because they don't bring any fans. But they have had good ratings on HBO and have had good attendance numbers. Can someone explain why their pay is so low despite their level of competition?

I don’t feel that K2 are willing to show commitment, by investing heavily in their fighters in order to build their names, unlike Matchroom, who have openly admitted to producing loss-making events and overpaying opponents in order to generate interest in Anthony Joshua and enhance his reputation.

I strongly suspect that come Cinco de Mayo, four of GGG’s five biggest paydays were the result of appearing on fight cards that weren’t solely promoted by K2 (i.e. GBP & Matchroom).

..
GGG earned

$2m vs. Wade
$1.5m vs. Monroe
$900k vs. Rubio (not including any add on's or the $100k from Rubio's purse)
$750k vs. Geale
$400k vs. Stevens

It has increased rapidly. He also for $2 guarantee vs. Lemieux, I think K2 promoted that PPV.

This is a pretty old debate. I can aggregate the content of some of my other posts from previous years illustrating the paydays of other fighters for comparison purposes, considered smaller names (whilst also drawing smaller TV audience figures), being actually paid more than GGG around the same timeframe, if you like?

All the marketing material for the Golovkin-Lemieux bout has both GBP's & K2's logos emblazoned upon it, strongly suggesting that it was actually a co-promotion. The Canelo bouts were mainly promoted by GBP, with the Kell Brook bout managed by Matchroom.

[jamamb]

if other fighters made more while drawing smaller numbers then ggg, what exactly amounts to public interest. how does public interest convert to cash aside from beinf based on tv and gate

[Ruthless-RKO]

This is a pretty old debate. I can aggregate the content of some of my other posts from previous years illustrating the paydays of other fighters for comparison purposes, considered smaller names (whilst also drawing smaller TV audience figures), being actually paid more than GGG around the same timeframe, if you like?

All the marketing material for the Golovkin-Lemieux bout has both GBP's & K2's logos emblazoned upon it, strongly suggesting that it was actually a co-promotion. The Canelo bouts were mainly promoted by GBP, with the Kell Brook bout managed by Matchroom.

No need.

http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... vkin+purse

I can see much of your debate here when you were Fergus, I believe.

[Enlightened-One]

This is a pretty old debate. I can aggregate the content of some of my other posts from previous years illustrating the paydays of other fighters for comparison purposes, considered smaller names (whilst also drawing smaller TV audience figures), being actually paid more than GGG around the same timeframe, if you like?

All the marketing material for the Golovkin-Lemieux bout has both GBP's & K2's logos emblazoned upon it, strongly suggesting that it was actually a co-promotion. The Canelo bouts were mainly promoted by GBP, with the Kell Brook bout managed by Matchroom.

No need.

http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... vkin+purse

I can see much of your debate here when you were Fergus, I believe.

Here’s a list of the average HBO viewing figures for Golovkin’s bouts (as of April 2015), coupled with fight purses (if known):
• Proska = 685K viewers
• Rosado = 813K viewers
• Macklin = 1.1m viewers ($350K)
• Stevens = 1.41m viewers ($400K)
• Geale = 984K viewers ($750K)
• Rubio = 1.304m viewers ($900K)
• Murray = 862K viewers

It would be fairly easy to produce a lengthy list of fight purses received by fighters achieving fewer viewers on HBO and Showtime around the same time period:
• Second tier fighters, such as Sakio Bika (58%) and Anthony Dirrell (42%) shared a $1.2m fight purse for their rematch, which meant that the total pot was pretty much on a par with the combined paydays of Golovkin & Rubio for their fight (i.e. $900K + $350K = $1.25m).
• Brian Vera’s was reportedly paid $400K for his first fight against Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. was the same that GGG earned to face Curtis Stevens.
• Darren Barker earned $1.3m for his fight against Felix Sturm, which was more than the combined purses of Golovkin & Rubio for their fight.
• Edwin Rodriguez was paid $600K and Denis Grachev was paid $400K when they fought, which was more than what GGG earned for both the Macklin & Stevens bouts.
• Edwin Rodriguez earned $1m when he fought Andre Ward... and then compare this figure to what Golovkin was paid for both the Macklin & Stevens bouts.
• Andre Dirrell and James DeGale were both paid $1.55m for their bout. At that precise point in time, GGG's career-best payday was the $900K he earned to blitz Marco Antonio Rubio.

Here’s one example: comparing the sums that were paid for GGG’s fight against Matthew Macklin:
• Provodnikov-Algieri = 1.046m viewers (Ruslan earned $750K)
• Marquez-Alvarado = 1.198m viewers (Juan Manuel earned $1.4m)

If we perform another comparison of the above figures for Golovkin’s fights against Marco Antonio Rubio or Curtis Stevens:
• Ward-Dawson = 1.3m viewers (Andre earned $1,367,500)
• Chavez-Vera I = 1.416m (Julio earned $2.5m)
• Ward-Rodriguez = 1.2m viewers (Andre earned $2.15m)

These figures appear to support my belief that K2 doesn’t pay their fighters as well as boxers working with other promoters. And in fact, the vast majority of GGG’s biggest paydays were a direct result of his bouts being either solely or co-promoted by GBP & Matchroom.

[halfamill]

if other fighters made more while drawing smaller numbers then ggg, what exactly amounts to public interest. how does public interest convert to cash aside from beinf based on tv and gate

That's exactly what I want to know and why I made this thread.

[oogiebe]

if other fighters made more while drawing smaller numbers then ggg, what exactly amounts to public interest. how does public interest convert to cash aside from beinf based on tv and gate

That's exactly what I want to know and why I made this thread.

...and it is a damn good question. There are so many angles to take on this.

[gilgamesh]

There are a lot of fighters that deserve the respect and admiration of the general public, but unfortunately receive little notice from any except us Hardcore fight fans for the most part.

It's always nice to see the guys that you know deserve it earn their worth.

[Lackeos]

Wangek-Gonzalez 2 outdrew a lot of heavier, better paid fighters. Wangek - Estrada also averaged in the 600 thousands, approaching the shows in this list. Therefore, despite the tired excuse that these fighters don't put asses in seats, they kind of do. For a fight like Wangek - Estrada, the fighters should probably be getting paid $1-3 million each. Not to mention that boring fights hurt future viewership for the network, and exciting fights boost future viewership for the network; so networks should pay extra for fights like Wangek - Estrada that are guaranteed to bring-in future revenue for the network. Don't just think short term; pay a premium for fights that strengthen your brand, and pay a bargain for fights that weaken your brand. Do not pay big bucks for Wilder - Stiverne 2.