Marciano vs. Ellis

[oogiebe]

Moore didn't start as a Middleweight... He started at Welterweight and was much smaller than Ellis... Moore fought 155-pound Charley Burley when he had over 70 fights... He got knocked down 4 X by rights and hammered badly.

At his zenith Ellis had a great right hand - fast, slick, and true.. For a cross armed defense it was deadly.. Ellis outgrew the Light Heavyweight Division and Moore never did... Ellis won the Heavyweight Title and Moore tried twice - but was run over by really small opponents... Moore was very easy to hit with rights and was knocked out by Charles, Marciano, Patterson, and Clay... Most Heavy Champs with any skill level would shittcan the cross armed defender.. The Jerry Quarry who stopped Thad Spencer would probably get rid of Moore in a couple rounds.. Ellis beat Quarry with ease.

But Norton's "cross armed defense is just fine against Frazier? That seems damn near inconsistent in your thinking. (for lack of a better descriptor.)

Also.....A bad day at the office is not a career definer, that's just a goofy notion.. For example with Durell, it could have been all over in a single lucky punch...(.as many fights are. ) But as it turned out Archie's day at the office ON THAT DAY was just beginning. So you have to be a little deeper in your nogginizing than you are currently demonstrating.

For example.....you are a pretty damn good contributor to this forum on occasion. But some days you just plain stink the place up. But reasonable people (such as myself) don't judge others by their worst moments. So in my book, you are a very giftedly average contributor.....and not the "despicable me" of the forum by any means. I don't care what anyone else says, you are genuinely "just ok" in my book. Never forget that.

BuzzBox... You're not knowledgeable and you don't use your noodle for anything but a hat rack.

Factors YOU never thought of... 1... Norton beat a lot of guys Frazier's size who couldn't reach him ... 2 Everyone who knocked Norton out was over 6 feet tall... Easier to nail Kenny with the right hand over his low left... 3. Frazier was never noted for his right. He was a left hook specialist... 4. Even Cooney got Norton started with his right hand over the low left... 5 Frazier also used the cross armed defense so it evened things out a bit... 6 Norton sparred with Frazier tons and knew every move he made.... 7 Norton was a lot bigger, taller, and stronger than Frazier... 8 Norton was a LOT FRESHER than Frazier when the fight was proposed... 9 Norton wanted to do the fight.. 10. Frazier DIDN'T.. They knew each other extremely well so that's an indication.

It's possible Frazier would win.. But the odds would be well in the favor of Norton -- who showed very few markings or damage from his Ali fights... Frazier's head was beaten to a pulp in his 1st and 3rd Ali fights.

You really are the "despicable me" of the forum!

[Kalan]

You're liar... You said you would never respond to me again... Which would be fine with me because when you can't think of a counter argument you resort to nothing but bullcrap comments.

[oogiebe]

You're liar... You said you would never respond to me again... Which would be fine with me because when you can't think of a counter argument you resort to nothing but bullcrap comments.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!! You snotty heap of parrot droppings...your kind makes me puke.

[Kalan]

There you go again... Responding with bullcrap comments... FO A-hole, like you said you would.

[oogiebe]

There you go again... Responding with bullcrap comments... FO A-hole, like you said you would.

You are the biggest full of sh#t a$$hole hiding behind your keyboard,...sitting back and criticizing everyone. I tried to be nice and you pissed on it. So don't wonder why I'm harsh. You sorry little man sitting safely behind your keyboard criticizing every freakin' post like you're the Grand HIgh Exalted Poobah of Boxing. At times you post something unoffending that I'd like to comment on but I dread your ridiculously curmudgeon like responses. Piss off!!! I'll be watching.

[Sidney Carton]

Ellis wouldn't last one round against Marciano.

[Scypion]

Ellis wouldn't last one round against Marciano.

It would be like a tale of two cities, Louisville for Ellis and Brockton for Marciano.

[Kalan]

Ellis wouldn't last one round against Marciano.

If you're going to buy the myth I guess you're gonna believe he'd get Ellis out real quick... On the other hand Don Cockell and Archie Moore were polished off a lot faster previously (1 to 4 rounds) by guys who were a lot smaller than Marciano and couldn't hit... Ellis did go out... but not at the peak of his abilities and skills... and not by anyone who weighed 184.

[oogiebe]

Ellis wouldn't last one round against Marciano.

One word for you..."sanity" Thank you...I was never impressed with Ellis.

[oogiebe]

Ellis wouldn't last one round against Marciano.

It would be like a tale of two cities, Louisville for Ellis and Brockton for Marciano.

OMG!!...you are totally right!!!! I'm guilty.

[Scypion]

Ellis wouldn't last one round against Marciano.

It would be like a tale of two cities, Louisville for Ellis and Brockton for Marciano.

OMG!!...you are totally right!!!! I'm guilty.

Just trying to make a little joke. Sorry if I offended anyone.

[Kalan]

Tale of 2 cities??? That's actually a big concern for a lot of people.

Is the boxer from MY state, MY city, MY country, MY race, My ethnicity, MY era... Is he more MY size, MY personality, MY style, and does he look a little more like ME than the other guy... Those happenstance things have a big impact on their pick.

The only things I take into consideration is how well both guys could box, punch, and general that ring versus the other guy.... Who was faster, more clever, and more athletic at their peak... and who fought the bigger, stronger, faster, smarter, more mobile, more youthful, more powerful, and more prime time Heavyweight Champions and Challengers? .... Ellis.

[Scypion]

The famous author Charles Dickens wrote a novel called "A Tale of Two Cities." One of the main heroes was a character named Sidney Carton (like the poster here). I know this because I had to read that book in high school.

There have also been movies from the book. Sidney Carton is in the final cut.

[Kalan]

There you go again... Responding with bullcrap comments... FO A-hole, like you said you would.

You are the biggest full of sh#t a$$hole hiding behind your keyboard,...sitting back and criticizing everyone. I tried to be nice and you pissed on it. So don't wonder why I'm harsh. You sorry little man sitting safely behind your keyboard criticizing every freakin' post like you're the Grand HIgh Exalted Poobah of Boxing. At times you post something unoffending that I'd like to comment on but I dread your ridiculously curmudgeon like responses. Piss off!!! I'll be watching.

YOU"RE the guy who told me he would piss off!!! ..... You're still coming with stupid comments.... I don't need to hide behind my keyboard suckface.. I faced Heavyweight Champions in the ring in my day - even though it was as a sparring partner and I gave as good as I got and never got hurt... I also trained many fighters... I can comment on boxers as I please and I won't be intimidated by a pasty little bitching runt like you who couldn't outbox a sick old lady.

Screw off.... And don't comment on my opinions if you can't be rational and civil.

[oogiebe]

There you go again... Responding with bullcrap comments... FO A-hole, like you said you would.

You are the biggest full of sh#t a$$hole hiding behind your keyboard,...sitting back and criticizing everyone. I tried to be nice and you pissed on it. So don't wonder why I'm harsh. You sorry little man sitting safely behind your keyboard criticizing every freakin' post like you're the Grand HIgh Exalted Poobah of Boxing. At times you post something unoffending that I'd like to comment on but I dread your ridiculously curmudgeon like responses. Piss off!!! I'll be watching.

YOU"RE the guy who told me he would piss off!!! ..... You're still coming with stupid comments.... I don't need to hide behind my keyboard suckface.. I faced Heavyweight Champions in the ring in my day - even though it was as a sparring partner and I gave as good as I got and never got hurt... I also trained many fighters... I can comment on boxers as I please and I won't be intimidated by a pasty little bitching runt like you who couldn't outbox a sick old lady.

Screw off.... And don't comment on my opinions if you can't be rational and civil.

LMFAO!!!! I love your posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sidney Carton]

A past his best Floyd Patterson beat the living hell out of Ellis--and you think Eliis could have beaten Marciano?

[oogiebe]

A past his best Floyd Patterson beat the living hell out of Ellis--and you think Eliis could have beaten Marciano?

Isn't that ridiculous. I hope you didn't fall on the floor like I did when I read that!

[Kalan]

A past his best Floyd Patterson beat the living hell out of Ellis--and you think Eliis could have beaten Marciano?

A peak Ellis... The man who dominated the Elimination Tournament... Not the FO who didn't train for the best Floyd Patterson ever who trained like a maniac... That was the best Patterson ever at 33 but Ellis still got the decision... "AND STILL"

Actually I thought Patterson won.... but that miserable version of Ellis would have beaten the Marciano who fought Cockell.... Rocky had his bad nights as well... Patterson would have beaten the crap out Marciano... Too fast and skilled.

[Sidney Carton]

Ellis still got the decision..

Ellis got the decision from stooge referee Harold Valan

who was brought over by Angelo Dundee.

Dundee's stooge Harold Valan was the ONLY voter for the outcome of the fight.

That "decision" reeked so badly that the next day the Swedish newspapers headlined,

"JUST A SPARRING PARTNER" in reference to Ellis and the drubbing he took from a slowed down Patterson who was far inferior to the Patterson who KO'ed Moore and Hurricane Jackson.

[Kalan]

Not really.... That was Patterson at his very best....

Floyd wasn't the green as grass 21-year-old Olympian, with no experience, who smashed Moore and Jackson... Floyd was a wily veteran of many years in the pro ring... He knew Ellis would take him lightly and trained like a man possessed... Practically every person anyone talked to predicted an easy victory for Ellis.... The outcome was corrupt... Angie insurance.

[Sidney Carton]

Not really.... That was Patterson at his very best....

Floyd wasn't the green as grass 21-year-old Olympian, with no experience, who smashed Moore and Jackson... Floyd was a wily veteran of many years in the pro ring... He knew Ellis would take him lightly and trained like a man possessed... Practically every person anyone talked to predicted an easy victory for Ellis.... The outcome was corrupt... Angie insurance.

The Patterson who the title was fast as lightning, with a powerful kick in the either hand.

The Patterson who slaughtered Jimmy Ellis was a tired, much slowed down fighter.

[Kalan]

Bullcrap.... Patterson was better than ever in the Ellis fight.... His game was much more rounded.

And slaughter is a massive exaggeration.... which you're very prone to... Ellis wasn't down or close to being stopped.

[Scypion]

I wonder what Jimmy Ellis could have done if Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier were not around. Ellis fought in one of the worst eras in history to be a heavyweight.

jimmy took a pretty bad beating from Frazier, and the Ali loss had to be tough on him. Ellis had been overshadowed by Muhammad ever since his amateur days in Louisville, even though he did beat the then Cassius Clay in an amateur bout.

Jimmy may have held the championship for more than a couple of years.

[oogiebe]

I wonder what Jimmy Ellis could have done if Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier were not around. Ellis fought in one of the worst eras in history to be a heavyweight.

jimmy took a pretty bad beating from Frazier, and the Ali loss had to be tough on him. Ellis had been overshadowed by Muhammad ever since his amateur days in Louisville, even though he did beat the then Cassius Clay in an amateur bout.

Jimmy may have held the championship for more than a couple of years.

He still would've gotten clobbered by LIston.

[Scypion]

I wonder what Jimmy Ellis could have done if Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier were not around. Ellis fought in one of the worst eras in history to be a heavyweight.

jimmy took a pretty bad beating from Frazier, and the Ali loss had to be tough on him. Ellis had been overshadowed by Muhammad ever since his amateur days in Louisville, even though he did beat the then Cassius Clay in an amateur bout.

Jimmy may have held the championship for more than a couple of years.

He still would've gotten clobbered by LIston.

Not too sure about that. Sonny was getting up there by 1968, and was KO'd in 1969 by Leotis Martin.