On October 30, 1974, Muhammad Ali fought George Foreman in Kinshasa, Zaire ((present day nation of the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC)). Muhammad beat George by an 8th round knockout.
Ali VERY much connected with the black African people in the DRC. Muhammad Ali also greatly connected with other black Africans. Foreman did not connect with the black Africans at all.
1. George not connecting with black Africans at all, do you think that this affected Foreman that much mentally?
That this played a critical role in George losing to Muhammad in the DRC?
2. Had this fight not taken place in Africa, instead, taken place in Las Vegas, Nevada. --------------
Do you think that this would have given George more of a mental edge?
That George Foreman may have beaten Muhammad Ali?
Please explain.
Oct. 30, 1974, Muhammad.
Re: Oct. 30, 1974, Muhammad.
I guess, Foreman didn't thought about the circumstances. He thought, that he was a wrecking machine, he came there to destroy Ali and punched himself out. His aura was a fatal factor for him.
Re: Oct. 30, 1974, Muhammad.
I think Foreman's loss to Young answers a lot of the questions regarding Zaire. I think Ali's supposed psyche job and Africa were overplayed. Foreman simply had problems with guys like Ali and Jimmy Young as he would have with Holmes, Walcott or even a Bugner.
If you laugh at the Walcott/Bugner notions, watch him against Greg Peralta.
When Leon Spinks became champion, Foreman announced a desire to return. When Ali won the rematch against Leon, God must have told GF he wanted him back at the pulpit.
If you laugh at the Walcott/Bugner notions, watch him against Greg Peralta.
When Leon Spinks became champion, Foreman announced a desire to return. When Ali won the rematch against Leon, God must have told GF he wanted him back at the pulpit.
Re: Oct. 30, 1974, Muhammad.
I believe the biggest reason for George losing was the delay of the fight after he was cut in sparring. He had to stay longer in a place he didn't want to be, and it was said that he was in much better shape at the time of the cut than the fight. No one can tell what would've happened, but I'll say this, it looked to me that George was very anxious to skedaddle right after the fight.NYDominican wrote: ↑18 Mar 2018, 17:08 On October 30, 1974, Muhammad Ali fought George Foreman in Kinshasa, Zaire ((present day nation of the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC)). Muhammad beat George by an 8th round knockout.
Ali VERY much connected with the black African people in the DRC. Muhammad Ali also greatly connected with other black Africans. Foreman did not connect with the black Africans at all.
1. George not connecting with black Africans at all, do you think that this affected Foreman that much mentally?
That this played a critical role in George losing to Muhammad in the DRC?
2. Had this fight not taken place in Africa, instead, taken place in Las Vegas, Nevada. --------------
Do you think that this would have given George more of a mental edge?
That George Foreman may have beaten Muhammad Ali?
Please explain.
Re: Oct. 30, 1974, Muhammad.
Bugner may have been able to take GF to the later rounds in the early 1970s had Bugner fought his best fight. He probably wouldn't have won, but it may have looked like the GF-Peralta fights.
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Re: Oct. 30, 1974, Muhammad.
Foreman wasn't psyched out by Africa.
He was focused on only one thing: Killing Muhammad Ali. And he had no doubt that he would.
Forget the site. Forget the ropes. Forget the witch doctor. Forget being mysteriously drugged.
He was simply outfought, outboxed and out thought by a superior fighter that night.
And on Oct. 30 1974, George Foreman would have lost to Muhammad Ali if the fight was held in Las Vegas, Madison Square Garden, the Roman Colosseum, or even on the mean streets of the Fifth Ward in Houston where he grew up.
It was his destiny.
He was focused on only one thing: Killing Muhammad Ali. And he had no doubt that he would.
Forget the site. Forget the ropes. Forget the witch doctor. Forget being mysteriously drugged.
He was simply outfought, outboxed and out thought by a superior fighter that night.
And on Oct. 30 1974, George Foreman would have lost to Muhammad Ali if the fight was held in Las Vegas, Madison Square Garden, the Roman Colosseum, or even on the mean streets of the Fifth Ward in Houston where he grew up.
It was his destiny.
Re: Oct. 30, 1974, Muhammad.
Though he was 25...George was an emotionally immature kid... I don't think Foreman ever grew up until he made his comeback at 38... Foreman said some weird things after the Young fight that showed he was prone to powerful negative emotions... Not as bad as Oliver McCall or Tyson Fury, but Foreman wasn't the 1st or last World Class fighter to suffer from emotional disorders... You've heard of PTSD.... Soldiers get it... Combat sport athletes can get it as well.NYDominican wrote: ↑18 Mar 2018, 17:08 Ali VERY much connected with the black African people in the DRC. Muhammad Ali also greatly connected with other black Africans. Foreman did not connect with the black Africans at all.
1. George not connecting with black Africans at all, do you think that this affected Foreman that much mentally? .....
2. Had this fight not taken place in Africa, instead, taken place in Las Vegas, Nevada ..... Do you think that this would have given George more of a mental edge?
Foreman suffered for a long time. He often said he was going to return to the ring. For 10 years he had fits and starts trying to train and get back into shape, but he never could... One of his kids finally said something along the lines of, "You've been saying that for years and years now Dad... You know damned well you're never going to come back because you're too old and fat." That really pissed George off and he reached for the phone and called a promoter.. "Get me a fight right away." .... "Ach ahhem ummm.....are you in in condition to fight?" .... "NO, I weigh 300. Get me somebody who I don't have to be in condition to beat... I'm starting all over like an amateur learning how to box" .... "Achhhemm ummmmm.....okay George if that's what you want."
Nobody took his comeback seriously for a long time... But Foreman was serious as a heart attack... He was lit.
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Re: Oct. 30, 1974, Muhammad.
This is interesting because Foreman said that around about 1978, Ali phoned him & asked him to come back & knock out Ken Norton because he (Ali) said couldn't beat him & that Ali would then given Foreman a title shot.Tony1244 wrote: ↑18 Mar 2018, 17:16 I think Foreman's loss to Young answers a lot of the questions regarding Zaire. I think Ali's supposed psyche job and Africa were overplayed. Foreman simply had problems with guys like Ali and Jimmy Young as he would have with Holmes, Walcott or even a Bugner.
If you laugh at the Walcott/Bugner notions, watch him against Greg Peralta.
When Leon Spinks became champion, Foreman announced a desire to return. When Ali won the rematch against Leon, God must have told GF he wanted him back at the pulpit.
I don't know how true this is, because I've never heard Ali say that, but Foreman did say so.
Re: Oct. 30, 1974, Muhammad.
Foreman did learn how to pink with his jab and use much better timing with his jab when he made his comeback.... He'd wait 30 seconds for you to step in and he'd stick you good... He had a lot of patience, but he was too old, and too fat...
The reflexes of a 40-year-old man won't get the job done as a boxer... He took a beating for 10 rounds while he waited patiently for Michael Moorer to make a mistake he could capitalize on... That was good. He hung in there forever.
The reflexes of a 40-year-old man won't get the job done as a boxer... He took a beating for 10 rounds while he waited patiently for Michael Moorer to make a mistake he could capitalize on... That was good. He hung in there forever.
Re: Oct. 30, 1974, Muhammad.
I liked his grill though, 
Re: Oct. 30, 1974, Muhammad.
He couldn't have outpunched every puncher because Ron Lyle almost did Foreman in... And there's much bigger, taller, stronger, faster, more powerful, more athletic, and more skillful big punchers in the annals of Boxing than Lyle.
They'd knock George out cold.
Re: Oct. 30, 1974, Muhammad.
"Almost" is not to be counted. Lyle was knocked out himself, George did outpunched him.
In the era after George's first retirement - yes, but not before. Lewis and Wlad, for example. However, they had also been boxers, not just punchers, and they would have most likely prefered to outbox Foreman, not to outpunch. Tommy Morrison also was a boxer-puncher, but he had chosen to outbox George. And that is wise, in the wild fight there are more chances to be caught. Anyway it was also not easy to knock George out cold, because Foreman had a very good chin.
Re: Oct. 30, 1974, Muhammad.
It may have affected him but the main thing was just Ali being better and being good at fighting off the ropes. Foreman didn’t merely punch himself out like the story goes, he was losing even before he got tired.
Re: Oct. 30, 1974, Muhammad.
Ali really did beat the crap out of poor George. Lead rights...combos...coming out of the rope-a-dope with punches throughout.
Re: Oct. 30, 1974, Muhammad.
Ali had Foremans number. All the other excuses are just that, excuses. Watch Foreman flounder around, swinging wildly and looking amateurish against Forte, Peralta, Ali, and Young and you can see the guy had issues with strong willed men who showed him a little movement.
Re: Oct. 30, 1974, Muhammad.
Do you have any Forte footage? Never seen that.klompton wrote: ↑29 Mar 2018, 10:22 Ali had Foremans number. All the other excuses are just that, excuses. Watch Foreman flounder around, swinging wildly and looking amateurish against Forte, Peralta, Ali, and Young and you can see the guy had issues with strong willed men who showed him a little movement.
You are right on the mark.
Re: Oct. 30, 1974, Muhammad.
A lot of revisionst history in boxing regards fights and fighters, this might be the prime example. If you never saw the fight and went by how it’s frequently told, you would think Foreman was dominating Ali before he got tired. Foreman was getting beaten all fight long.
Re: Oct. 30, 1974, Muhammad.
No he wasn't.... The fight was no shutout going into the 8th.... If you won every round you're 7 points ahead... Ali was 2 points... 3 points... and 3 points ahead -- on the 3 cards.
If you're well trained for a 15 round Title Fight you should be recovering in the 1-minute rest periods.... Either Foreman was drugged like he always claimed he was .... or his physical conditioning was absolute SHITT .... The worst of his life.
If you're well trained for a 15 round Title Fight you should be recovering in the 1-minute rest periods.... Either Foreman was drugged like he always claimed he was .... or his physical conditioning was absolute SHITT .... The worst of his life.