Ken Norton's legacy?

[oogiebe]

Maybe you can graduate from kindergarten. I use a full vocabulary when I post on political sites. Here if you use a word like rapier, which is a great word to describe a very sharp, punishing jab, some people are in bolivian

Last I looked a rapier is a fencing sward last I looked.

Yeah, but Fencing is sort of "jabbing" with swords so I think "A Rapier-like jab" is an apt description for an effective or skillful jab. Just playing Devil's advocate here

Oh definitely...I'm just not sure who this bloke's trying to impress...perhaps himself...He's still the funniest poster on the forum!

[oogiebe]

Maybe you can graduate from kindergarten. I use a full vocabulary when I post on political sites. Here if you use a word like rapier, which is a great word to describe a very sharp, punishing jab, some people are in bolivian

Last I looked a rapier is a fencing sward last I looked.

Yeah, but Fencing is sort of "jabbing" with swords so I think "A Rapier-like jab" is an apt description for an effective or skillful jab. Just playing Devil's advocate here

And "Rapier" like sounds better than "Epee like," so there you have it. I hope he posts again before I have to leave!!!!

[Kalan]

Certainly not out of the question. Maybe I'm putting too much emphasis on the Norton-Quarry fight (which I saw live, my claim to fame) and Quarry-Lyle outcomes. Think Quarry could have had a chance against Norton if he wasn't cut?

Quarry was such an enigma to me. Sometimes looking like a champ and sometimes like a chump, and mostly a damn tough contender to beat.

Lyle was the perfect fit for Quarry, Jerry liked to counter and didn't mind a slow pace. He could also take the odd power punch from Lyle. I always thought a motivated in shape Quarry could have made things difficult for Foreman.

On the surface that sounds good... THAT version of Lyle was a perfect fit for a well trained and sharp Quarry... Lyle was super green and making his first start against a Contender... He had no jab or defensive finesse... He got somewhat better at boxing but was super frustrated by the Young loss just before he fought Ali... Young was so green... Lyle worked really hard for the Ali camp to bring his boxing game up and tried to box -- but obviously still missing a few pieces.

It generally doesn't work for a puncher to outbox a boxer - or a boxer to to out-slug a puncher... But it surprises the bejabbers out of them because it's a tactic they don't expect...

[Tony1244]

Certainly not out of the question. Maybe I'm putting too much emphasis on the Norton-Quarry fight (which I saw live, my claim to fame) and Quarry-Lyle outcomes. Think Quarry could have had a chance against Norton if he wasn't cut?

Quarry was such an enigma to me. Sometimes looking like a champ and sometimes like a chump, and mostly a damn tough contender to beat.

Lyle was the perfect fit for Quarry, Jerry liked to counter and didn't mind a slow pace. He could also take the odd power punch from Lyle. I always thought a motivated in shape Quarry could have made things difficult for Foreman.

I never thought Jerry could make things difficult for Foreman. Frankly, I don't think he could take the shots. But I think Bugner could have made things difficult for George.

[hhaehre]

Quarry was such an enigma to me. Sometimes looking like a champ and sometimes like a chump, and mostly a damn tough contender to beat.

Lyle was the perfect fit for Quarry, Jerry liked to counter and didn't mind a slow pace. He could also take the odd power punch from Lyle. I always thought a motivated in shape Quarry could have made things difficult for Foreman.

I never thought Jerry could make things difficult for Foreman. Frankly, I don't think he could take the shots. But I think Bugner could have made things difficult for George.

You could be right, maybe Jerry couldn't take the shots. One thing about Quarry though, was that he never froze and he wasn't gun shy. If he could take the shots, and it's a big if, he would fire back and nail George with counters.
Bugner is interesting, he often looked poor vs boxers but when he was made to fight he sometimes looked great. I'm not big on Bugner as he usually looked disinterested, but when Frazier forced him to dig his heels in he did well. Maybe the same thing would have happened vs Foreman.

[oogiebe]

Lyle was the perfect fit for Quarry, Jerry liked to counter and didn't mind a slow pace. He could also take the odd power punch from Lyle. I always thought a motivated in shape Quarry could have made things difficult for Foreman.

I never thought Jerry could make things difficult for Foreman. Frankly, I don't think he could take the shots. But I think Bugner could have made things difficult for George.

You could be right, maybe Jerry couldn't take the shots. One thing about Quarry though, was that he never froze and he wasn't gun shy. If he could take the shots, and it's a big if, he would fire back and nail George with counters.
Bugner is interesting, he often looked poor vs boxers but when he was made to fight he sometimes looked great. I'm not big on Bugner as he usually looked disinterested, but when Frazier forced him to dig his heels in he did well. Maybe the same thing would have happened vs Foreman.

Let's say this. If a boxer beat Quarry, it was a good fighter, or an old Quarry.

[Kalan]

Lyle was the perfect fit for Quarry, Jerry liked to counter and didn't mind a slow pace. He could also take the odd power punch from Lyle. I always thought a motivated in shape Quarry could have made things difficult for Foreman.

I never thought Jerry could make things difficult for Foreman. Frankly, I don't think he could take the shots. But I think Bugner could have made things difficult for George.

You could be right, maybe Jerry couldn't take the shots. One thing about Quarry though, was that he never froze and he wasn't gun shy. If he could take the shots, and it's a big if, he would fire back and nail George with counters.
Bugner is interesting, he often looked poor vs boxers but when he was made to fight he sometimes looked great. I'm not big on Bugner as he usually looked disinterested, but when Frazier forced him to dig his heels in he did well. Maybe the same thing would have happened vs Foreman.

I don't see Joe Bugner doing well with George Foreman...

Bugner wasn't a bigger and longer armed version of Jimmy Young or anything... Bug didn't have any sense of timing with his jab... Ron Lyle outboxed him when Ronnie was getting on in age.. Bugner's right counter was poor... Marvis Frazier was wide open for right counters and Larry Holmes tore his head off -- but Marvis easily out-boxed Bugner, who's younger than Holmes.... Bugner got more right hands on Joe Frazier than his son... Marvis had good amateur coaches.. He wasn't as rank as most kids with 9 fights... He slipped or ducked Bugner's slow punches and put crisp combinations on him.

Bug tried to copy Foreman when he fought Joe Frazier... He tried to use his 6'4" height, along with his size and strength to bully Joe.. He lacked the balance, technique, and punching power to make it work.. He bounced too much.. You need smooth, quick, and precise footwork not bouncing -- especially when you're trying to beat somebody up because you need position, balance and leverage for power.. Bugner wasn't getting it.

It would be a little like Norton versus Bobick -- with Foreman throwing both hands at Bugner's stationary head.

[Caractacus]

In their primes I'd go with Norton by decision or late stoppage against Lyle. Lyle was a very good puncher but slightly less than Foreman or Shavers. My guess is Norton could have weathered a Lyle storm and as others said established the jab.

You really think so? (obviously). Norton might have weathered Lyle, but I'm not sure either way, but I lean towards a Lyle late KO even though Kenny is one of my all time favourites.

Certainly not out of the question. Maybe I'm putting too much emphasis on the Norton-Quarry fight (which I saw live, my claim to fame) and Quarry-Lyle outcomes. Think Quarry could have had a chance against Norton if he wasn't cut?

You saw it live ?
At Madison Square Garden or on Closed-Circuit television Broadcast at a movie theater or venue ?
( it was the undercard of Ali vrs Chuck Wepner which wasseperate live broadcast from Cleveland Ohio from what I remember)

[Kalan]

You really think so? (obviously). Norton might have weathered Lyle, but I'm not sure either way, but I lean towards a Lyle late KO even though Kenny is one of my all time favourites.

Certainly not out of the question. Maybe I'm putting too much emphasis on the Norton-Quarry fight (which I saw live, my claim to fame) and Quarry-Lyle outcomes. Think Quarry could have had a chance against Norton if he wasn't cut?

You saw it live ?
At Madison Square Garden or on Closed-Circuit television Broadcast at a movie theater or venue ?
( it was the undercard of Ali vrs Chuck Wepner which wasseperate live broadcast from Cleveland Ohio from what I remember)

Lyle was dead green when he fought Quarry.

Other than the Spencer Fight, Quarry was probably in the best condition and physically strongest of of his life for Lyle... I remember just before the Lyle Fight Quarry saying, "I've got a new body. I can beat anybody." That confidence didn't last though. Quarry's dedication never followed through for very long.. It's true Jerry was in miserable condition for Norton and that's why he got the call.. But given their styles of boxing that was always going to be Norton's fight...

Norton was so big and tall he could easily nail Quarry with up jabs... Lyle didn't HAVE a jab when he fought Quarry... Mac Foster had no jab.. Norton knew he could smother Quarry's offense... He'd been a million rounds with Joe Frazier and some of them very heated rounds... Frazier was bigger and stronger than Quarry and could throw harder --but Joe was small enough so Norton could shove him back, pop him good, and pretty much bully Joe when they turned up the volume... Kenny was extremely confident Jerry couldn't do shitt to him.. Jerry was a sharp hitter by not a big bomber.

[Tony1244]

You really think so? (obviously). Norton might have weathered Lyle, but I'm not sure either way, but I lean towards a Lyle late KO even though Kenny is one of my all time favourites.

Certainly not out of the question. Maybe I'm putting too much emphasis on the Norton-Quarry fight (which I saw live, my claim to fame) and Quarry-Lyle outcomes. Think Quarry could have had a chance against Norton if he wasn't cut?

You saw it live ?
At Madison Square Garden or on Closed-Circuit television Broadcast at a movie theater or venue ?
( it was the undercard of Ali vrs Chuck Wepner which wasseperate live broadcast from Cleveland Ohio from what I remember)

I saw it @ MSG Live. Ali-Wepner came on later on a big screen over the ring.

[Caractacus]

dang,
That was back when Times Square was still really sleazy and had some charctor.
did you go to Jack Dempsey's resturant afterwrds and have a slice of their world famous cheese-cake ?
what row did you sit in ?
and who did the intoduce in the ring before the fight ? (remember those days?).