P4P: Does it really mean anything?

[Deleted_Scenes]

If everyone in Boxing weighed the same, to the ounce, who would be the best? Simple as that? That's all you need to consider. AJ vs. Loma in my mind, if they were the same weight, would be a beatdown by Loma. Not even close. It's easy, see?

The problem with that, is attributes are affected by size/weight. Loma has skills that any fighter above a certain weight could never possibly have, and if Loma was 240 pounds, wouldn't have himself due to the constraints of the human body. This is why some people say p4p lists favour the lighter weights. They do.

It all depends where you're setting this arbitrary "same weight". If Loma and Joshua both weigh 130, Loma schools him. If Loma weighs 250, the constraints of the human body take away all of what makes him so special - Joshua smashes the shit out of that Loma.

I like p4p lists. They're fun to discuss, and they bring attention to the less fashionable weights. Are they worth anything though? Not really.

[Datsue]

If everyone in Boxing weighed the same, to the ounce, who would be the best? Simple as that? That's all you need to consider. AJ vs. Loma in my mind, if they were the same weight, would be a beatdown by Loma. Not even close. It's easy, see?

The problem with that, is attributes are affected by size/weight. Loma has skills that any fighter above a certain weight could never possibly have, and if Loma was 240 pounds, wouldn't have himself due to the constraints of the human body. This is why some people say p4p lists favour the lighter weights. They do.

It all depends where you're setting this arbitrary "same weight". If Loma and Joshua both weigh 130, Loma schools him. If Loma weighs 250, the constraints of the human body take away all of what makes him so special - Joshua smashes the poo out of that Loma.

I like p4p lists. They're fun to discuss, and they bring attention to the less fashionable weights. Are they worth anything though? Not really.

This.



You are a gentleman of taste & distinction. Now, if you will all excuse me, I have a Level 3 Elven Ranger to roll up...

[Taansend]

P4P is like arguing over what's the best movie or band.

[oogiebe]

I've always loved the P4P notion and make no mistake about it, it's extremely important to the boxers as well. I'd go as far as to say that it's more important than belts to a lot of boxers. If it's THAT important to them then it should definitely be something fans take into consideration.

My biggest problem with P4P discussions on this forum or with buddies over a beer, a lot of people do not know what they are supposed to be considering. Is it what a fighter has done? resume? ability? dominance? Is it all about KO's? knockout streaks?

My typical response and the easiest way to explain what is considered when determining P4P status is this. If everyone in Boxing weighed the same, to the ounce, who would be the best? Simple as that? That's all you need to consider. AJ vs. Loma in my mind, if they were the same weight, would be a beatdown by Loma. Not even close. It's easy, see?

It's an impossible task...in your explanation, it takes out all physical advantages and disadvantages. Even within a weight class there are height/weight/reach differences. I guess the next step would be to set all power; speed; and other attributes to equal. It just cannot be done. Someone earlier had the best analogy: Comparing different fighters in different weight classes is like comparing a marathon runner with a sprinter. If that's your point then I agree.

[ValMar]

I've always loved the P4P notion and make no mistake about it, it's extremely important to the boxers as well. I'd go as far as to say that it's more important than belts to a lot of boxers. If it's THAT important to them then it should definitely be something fans take into consideration.

My biggest problem with P4P discussions on this forum or with buddies over a beer, a lot of people do not know what they are supposed to be considering. Is it what a fighter has done? resume? ability? dominance? Is it all about KO's? knockout streaks?

My typical response and the easiest way to explain what is considered when determining P4P status is this. If everyone in Boxing weighed the same, to the ounce, who would be the best? Simple as that? That's all you need to consider. AJ vs. Loma in my mind, if they were the same weight, would be a beatdown by Loma. Not even close. It's easy, see?

It's an impossible task...in your explanation, it takes out all physical advantages and disadvantages. Even within a weight class there are height/weight/reach differences. I guess the next step would be to set all power; speed; and other attributes to equal. It just cannot be done. Someone earlier had the best analogy: Comparing different fighters in different weight classes is like comparing a marathon runner with a sprinter. If that's your point then I agree.

[oogiebe]

I've always loved the P4P notion and make no mistake about it, it's extremely important to the boxers as well. I'd go as far as to say that it's more important than belts to a lot of boxers. If it's THAT important to them then it should definitely be something fans take into consideration.

My biggest problem with P4P discussions on this forum or with buddies over a beer, a lot of people do not know what they are supposed to be considering. Is it what a fighter has done? resume? ability? dominance? Is it all about KO's? knockout streaks?

My typical response and the easiest way to explain what is considered when determining P4P status is this. If everyone in Boxing weighed the same, to the ounce, who would be the best? Simple as that? That's all you need to consider. AJ vs. Loma in my mind, if they were the same weight, would be a beatdown by Loma. Not even close. It's easy, see?

It's an impossible task...in your explanation, it takes out all physical advantages and disadvantages. Even within a weight class there are height/weight/reach differences. I guess the next step would be to set all power; speed; and other attributes to equal. It just cannot be done. Someone earlier had the best analogy: Comparing different fighters in different weight classes is like comparing a marathon runner with a sprinter. If that's your point then I agree.

Was that quote yours, Valmar?

[Ilya Muromets]

It's essentially become a measure of star power. The guys that are on the Pound for Pound list are often the guys that are in demand to be seen by everybody.

Or so thinks whoever created the list. Like I said the stoopid thing is nothing more than some jerk's list of his favorite boxers, usually favoring the little fellers.

You're such a dork. <<<4 y/o

That's it, Oogeeboogee, that's it!

[oogiebe]

Or so thinks whoever created the list. Like I said the stoopid thing is nothing more than some jerk's list of his favorite boxers, usually favoring the little fellers.

You're such a dork. <<<4 y/o

That's it, Oogeeboogee, that's it!

Listen...if I keep regressing, I'll be a twinkle in my father's eye! Cut it out!

[Ilya Muromets]

Yesterday I wrote a bunch of posts on another thread about the STOOPID pound for pound ranking schtick that was started on the STOOPID useless Ring magazine as a space filler - a magazine that is pretty much all space filler - in 1990. There was no such thing as "pound for pound" rankings before 1990. Now the otherwise very excellent BoxRec - with the exception of their awful updated layout, especially the color scheme which makes the won-lost circles almost impossible to discern by people such as me who are perfect in every way except being somewhat color blind (actually a survival adaptation) - presents "pound for pound" rankings as if it was some kind of objective official statistic, in fact giving it top billing. Absurd. Like I said, it's nothing but a list of some jerk's favorite boxers, usually favoring the teeny weeny little fellows.

[Ilya Muromets]

You're such a dork. <<<4 y/o

That's it, Oogeeboogee, that's it!

Listen...if I keep regressing, I'll be a twinkle in my father's eye! Cut it out!

You're already down to six.

[BitPlayer]

I see it as fun.

[ValMar]

It's an impossible task...in your explanation, it takes out all physical advantages and disadvantages. Even within a weight class there are height/weight/reach differences. I guess the next step would be to set all power; speed; and other attributes to equal. It just cannot be done. Someone earlier had the best analogy: Comparing different fighters in different weight classes is like comparing a marathon runner with a sprinter. If that's your point then I agree.

Was that quote yours, Valmar?

Yes............

[oogiebe]

Was that quote yours, Valmar?

Yes............

Hey...at least I didn't take credit for it! lol!

[ValMar]

[oogiebe]

I see it as fun.

Thank you BitPlayer...everyone is so freakin' serious about their opinions on everything, I thought I was the only one who actually enjoyed talking boxing. P4P is such a great speculative exercise, futile as it is. Excellent!

[oogiebe]

P4p is interesting when done with some logical explanation. For example, how does this fighters skill, athleticism, power etc translate to a higher or lower weight class. But basically it’s all guess work that can be argued well but guess work.

I think fun and somewhat interesting to ponder is the majority thus far!

[Ilya Muromets]

P4p is interesting when done with some logical explanation. For example, how does this fighters skill, athleticism, power etc translate to a higher or lower weight class. But basically it’s all guess work that can be argued well but guess work.

I think fun and somewhat interesting to ponder is the majority thus far!

I see it as fun.

Thank you BitPlayer...everyone is so freakin' serious about their opinions on everything, I thought I was the only one who actually enjoyed talking boxing. P4P is such a great speculative exercise, futile as it is. Excellent!

I'd have no problem with the pfp thing if it was just presented as a fun thing, killing time, like most of the posts here about who some guy thinks will, or could have, beat up who, who he likes, who he thinks is a bum, that sort of thing. My problem with it is places like Boxrec here, and the tv talking heads, giving it a mock official dtatus, even listing it ahead of the boxing rankings

[oogiebe]

P4p is interesting when done with some logical explanation. For example, how does this fighters skill, athleticism, power etc translate to a higher or lower weight class. But basically it’s all guess work that can be argued well but guess work.

I think fun and somewhat interesting to ponder is the majority thus far!

I see it as fun.

Thank you BitPlayer...everyone is so freakin' serious about their opinions on everything, I thought I was the only one who actually enjoyed talking boxing. P4P is such a great speculative exercise, futile as it is. Excellent!

I'd have no problem with the pfp thing if it was just presented as a fun thing, killing time, like most of the posts here about who some guy thinks will, or could have, beat up who, who he likes, who he thinks is a bum, that sort of thing. My problem with it is places like Boxrec here, and the tv talking heads, giving it a mock official dtatus, even listing it ahead of the boxing rankings

Yeah...that's what it's all about. Keep it light and enjoy the comps.

[Mexi-Box]

I think the best way to do them is to base them off resume primarily with showing also in there. It stops meaning something if people do them based purely on the eye test or just their favorite fighter.

[ValMar]

With or without p4p, we (generally speaking - boxing fans) will continue to follow this half-dead (sad, but true) sport.

[oogiebe]

With or without p4p, we (generally speaking - boxing fans) will continue to follow this half-dead (sad, but true) sport.

Yeah, we do...but it's all worth it when we see a great fight!

[ValMar]

With or without p4p, we (generally speaking - boxing fans) will continue to follow this half-dead (sad, but true) sport.

Yeah, we do...but it's all worth it when we see a great fight!

Yes, let us say - Joshua / Wilder winner facing Tyson Fury.

[oogiebe]

With or without p4p, we (generally speaking - boxing fans) will continue to follow this half-dead (sad, but true) sport.

Yeah, we do...but it's all worth it when we see a great fight!

Yes, let us say - Joshua / Wilder winner facing Tyson Fury.

...amen...

[ValMar]

Yeah, we do...but it's all worth it when we see a great fight!

Yes, let us say - Joshua / Wilder winner facing Tyson Fury.

...amen...

Or Beterbiev / Bivol......Kovalev / Stevenson........Spence / Crawford etc....etc........

[Like a Boss]

P4P is assessed by purely subjective means. So it amounts to little more than opinion.