HOF Nomination: Carlos Monzon *Thread Closed*

[Crease]

Should Carlos be included in the HOF?

Yay or Nay?

THE COUNT:
BoxBuzz
P4P1
Techno89


YES (2 members)
Crease
Fist of Legend

NO (3 members)
Armageto
Gilsgamesh
HyacinthusTurnipseed

[Crease]

Carlos "The Monster" Monzon
25-7-8 (11 KOs)

Week 01: vs Jim Doran W KO 1
Week 02: vs Sean Mannion W TKO 9
Week 03: vs John Duddy W TKO 3
Week 04: vs Andy Lee W KO 2
Week 05: vs Martin Murray W KO 8
Week 06: vs Harry Greb L SD - vacant WBO title
Week 07: vs Rocky Graziano W UD
Week 08: vs Charley Burley W UD - Lonsdale & WBO title
Week 09: vs Archie Moore W SD - Lonsdale & WBO title
Week 10: vs Sugar Ray Robinson L SD - Lonsdale & WBO title

Week 11: vs Laszlo Papp W SD
Week 12: vs Marvin Hagler L SD - IBF title
Week 13: vs Freddie Steele W UD
Week 14: vs Terry Downes W TKO 8
Week 15: vs Roy Jones Jr W TKO 13 - WBA title
Week 16: vs Sugar Ray Leonard Draw - WBA title
Week 17: vs Les Darcy W SD - WBA title - MDT
Week 18: vs Tiger Flowers Draw - WBA title - MDT
Week 19: vs Roberto Duran L SD - WBA title - MDT
Week 20: vs Archie Moore Draw

Week 21: vs Stanley Ketchel W MD
Week 22: vs Jimmy Bivins W MD
Week 23: vs Sam Langford W UD
Week 24: vs Ezzard Charles Majority Draw
Week 25: vs Archie Moore L SD - Lonsdale Belt & Undisputed World Middleweight Championship
Week 26: vs Holman Williams W TKO 9
Week 27: vs Frankie Schoell W SD
Week 28: vs Dick Tiger W SD
Week 29: vs Thomas Hearns W TKO 15 - WBO Title
Week 30: vs Tommy Ryan Draw - WBO Title

Week 31: vs Ezzard Charles L SD - WBO Title
Week 32: vs Paul Pender W MD
Week 33: vs Marvin Hagler W SD - WBC Title
Week 34: vs Sugar Ray Robinson Draw - WBC Title
Week 35: vs Sugar Ray Leonard L UD - WBC Title - SUPER SIX
Week 36: vs Stanley Ketchel W TKO 11 - SUPER SIX
Week 37: vs Mickey Walker W SD - WBC & WBO titles - SUPER SIX
Week 38: vs Harry Greb L SD - WBC & WBO Titles - SUPER SIX
Week 39: vs Sugar Ray Robinson W TKO 9 - SUPER SIX
Week 40: vs Sugar Ray Robinson Majority Draw

[Crease]

Accolades:
Second in The Super Six.
Finished in the Top Five of the Final Rankings.
NEVER been stopped in a 40 week season.
Lost eight times, seven of which were Split Decisions...

Belts collected:
x3 time WBO World Champion.
x2 time WBC World Champion.
x1 time WBA World Champion.
x1 time Lonsdale Champion.

[Crease]

I do feel that Carlos has more of a right to be included than others...
As such, I'm going to wait to see how my fellow Managers vote before making my votes for Carlos.

[Crease]

I'll have to vote YES for Carlos.

I would be willing to stop at Greb as our lone HOFer, but I do believe that Monzon is the equal to SRR. He won more World Championships & finished higher in The Super Six.

If people vote for SRR, then I think Carlos goes in along with him.

[armageto]

No.

Robinson finished above Monzon in overall season ratings. Monzon is 3-5-3 against current running HOF fighters. Robinson is 6-5-3.

They are Monzon is 1-1-2 vs Robinson in the season overall, but look at the wins and draws.

[Crease]

No.

Robinson finished above Monzon in overall season ratings. Monzon is 3-5-3 against current running HOF fighters. Robinson is 6-5-3.

A fancy way of crunching the numbers... Monzon won more World Championships and beat him when it really mattered, The Super Six.

'Nuff said.

[armageto]

No.

Robinson finished above Monzon in overall season ratings. Monzon is 3-5-3 against current running HOF fighters. Robinson is 6-5-3.

A fancy way of crunching the numbers... Monzon won more World Championships and beat him when it really mattered, The Super Six.

'Nuff said.

He beat Robinson on a cut on a fight he was losing. It's not fancy numbers, it's f@cking math. He has a losing season record to HOF fighters. One of the draws for Robinson, if not both, should have been Robinson wins.

Monzon has won more belts because he couldn't hold onto them. What does he have for his longest reign? Defenses that were actually wins? Of course Monzon is going to get more title shots, he is an easier opponent than Robinson

You're trying to use Robinson's name to get Monzon into the HOF, but then you don't even vote Robinson into the HOF.....you f@cking genius....

[Crease]

Of course Monzon is going to get more title shots, he is an easier opponent than Robinson

The Super Six table does not reflect your view.

You're trying to use Robinson's name to get Monzon into the HOF, but then you don't even vote Robinson into the HOF.....you f@cking genius....

I disagree, sir.

There has been a couple of occasions in the past when fighters whom I did not believe worthy (sparing no names and no disrespect to any Manager) gained entry into the Hall because of late voting and/or people changing their votes at the last minute.

I have always I tried to stick to the "as few as possible" mantra for the HOF, making is ultra-exclusive and the height for any aspiring fighter as the beginning of every season. It's supposed to be super-difficult to get into the Hall, that's kinda the point of it.

In the past, I believe that I had fighters who were within touching of getting in - the likes of Joe Louis during the last Heavyweight season & Terry McGovern in the Bantamweight season. Both were exceptional fighters but were done out of the entry because of the voting.

IF SRR gets in, then so be it - he gets in and he'll be revered for such an achievement, but I just think that I had a fighter who was on his par.

[armageto]

I see what you are saying, we just agree to disagree. I'm usually pretty honest in my Sim assessments. After reviewing Greb, he's definitely in. Robinson is close, but I think he's a top 2 fighter for the season. So if he's not in, I can't see anybody else in.

I think Hagler would have had a great shot with one manager, or if you included his work into yours. Leonard I'm still debating on, because he had a great season, being a smaller man. Walker might have been in, but I can't vote him in with no record. Robinson to me is close, but if Greb is seen as the #1 guy, he's 2-1 vs Greb and finished with a higher season points total.

Plus a winning record vs current HOF candidates. I'm pretty sure Robinson faced the best competition overall in the season, at least facing the most HOF guys I've calculated. I think that is a telling stat for who fought/beat the best all season. I'm going to count it up every year from now on, record providing.

Well, it's my birthday weekend, so off to drink!!

[Crease]

Well, it's my birthday weekend, so off to drink!!

Hope that you have a great weekend my friend and Happy Birthday.

[armageto]

Thanks man, I appreciate it! I hope everyone in Sim world has a good weekend. Looking forward to the next season.

[gilgamesh]

I'm gonna have to say no on Carlos

[HyacinthusTurnipseed]

I might consider him #2 in the season (hard to separate #2-4) but I think he just misses out on the hall. A lot of his losses are SDs but a fair few of his wins are SDs and MDs too. And as armageto mentioned, he had less than great results against fellow HOF candidates, meaning it's a close NO for me.

[Fist of Legend]

just to be nice I'm voting yes to everyone

[Crease]

Thread Closed!

Carlos does NOT make it into the Hall.