HOF nomination: Sugar Ray Robinson *Thread Closed*

[Crease]

Should Sugar Ray be included in the HOF?

Yay or Nay?

THE COUNT:
P4P1
Techno89


YES (4 members)
Gilgamesh
Armageto
BoxBuzz
Fist of Legend

NO (2 members)
Crease
HyacinthusTurnipseed

[Crease]

H.O.F."Sugar" Ray Robinson

25(9 KO)-9(3KO)-5

Week 1- W9 John Duddy KO
Week 2- W12 Stanley Ketchel SD
Week 3- D12 Mickey Walker
Week 4- L12 Harry Greb SD
Week 5- D10 Tiger Flowers
Week 6- W10 Miguel Cotto UD
Week 7- W10 Len Harvey UD
Week 8- W2 Maurice Hope KO
Week 9- W10 Tiger Flowers II MD
Week 10- W15 Carlos Monzon SD (WBO Title/Lonsdale Belt)
Week 11- W9 Ezzard Charles TKO (WBO Title/Lonsdale Belt)
Week 12- W15 Mickey Walker II MD (WBO Title/Lonsdale Belt)
Week 13- W15 Marcel Cerdan UD (WBO Title/Lonsdale Belt)
Week 14- W15 Marvin Hagler UD (IBF Title/WBO Title/Lonsdale Belt)
Week 15- W15 Charley Burley UD (IBF Title/WBO Title/WBC Title/Lonsdale Belt)
Week 16- L15 Ezzard Charles II MD (IBF Title/WBO Title/WBC Title/Lonsdale Belt)
Week 17- W12 James Toney TKO (MDT Tourney)
Week 18- W9 Marcel Cerdan II TKO (MDT Tourney)
Week 19- L15 Holman Williams SD (MDT Tourney)
Week 20- W15 Emile Grifith UD (MDT Tourney)
Week 21- W15 Les Darcy SD (MDT Tourney)
Week 22- L15 Sugar Ray Leonard MD (IBF Title/WBO Title/WBC Title/Lonsdale Belt) (MDT Tourney)
Week 23- W9 Bob Fitzsimmons TKO
Week 24- W10 Mike Gibbons UD
Week 25- L12 Bernard Hopkins MD
Week 26- D12 Charley Burley II
Week 27- W10 Oscar Dela Hoya UD
Week 28- L12 Stanley Ketchel II TKO (IBF Title/WBO Title/Lonsdale Belt)
Week 29- W10 Felix Trinidad UD
Week 30- W12 Charley Burley III SD
Week 31- W7 Harry Greb II DQ (WBC Title)
Week 32- L15 Marvin Hagler II SD (WBC Title)
Week 33- D12 Stanley Ketchel III
Week 34- D15 Carlos Monzon II (WBC Title)
Week 35- L14 Mickey Walker III TKO SUPER SIX
Week 36- W14 Harry Greb III DQ SUPER SIX
Week 37- W15 Stanley Ketchel IV MD SUPER SIX
Week 38- W12 Sugar Ray Leonard II KO SUPER SIX
Week 39- L9 Carlos Monzon III TKO SUPER SIX
Week 40- Carlos Monzon IV

[Crease]

Accolades:
3rd in The Super Six.
Finished 2nd in the Final Rankings.

Belts held:
x2 time WBC World Champion.
x1 time WBO World Champion.
x1 time IBF World Champion.
x1 time Lonsdale Champion.

[Crease]

No for me.

Ray was a brilliant fighter and one of the more feared opponents of the Middleweight season. But he wasn't the standout guy for me, he just didn't do enough to get in.

Early in the season he did win 2 unification contests to bring together three of the World Championships, but he never sealed the deal by bringing all four together - that achievement was done later by Greb in the MDT final.

To be honest, I hold my fighter - Carlos Monzon as an equal of SRR. They had a four fight series and it was tied. Monzon stopped him in The Super Six to finish second ahead of him.

SRR lost too many of the big fights when they mattered most. So I have to say NO.

[Crease]

If SRR was voted as a YES, then surely Mr Monzon is worthy of a HOF nomination?

And what of Mr Hagler? - Just looking at his achievements over the course of 13 weeks is incredible. He finished top of the Leader board, was voted in and won The Silver Six and won four World Championships along the way.

All in the space of 13 weeks... WOW!

He could be a candidate for the HOF with an asterisk beside his name. He took the big fights when he could get them and won most of them.

[armageto]

I know it's my guy, but I vote yes.

If Robinson doesn't get in, who does, aside maybe Greb for winning both tournaments? Even with that, Robinson holds an overall season point total over him and 2-1 in the season series. Considering who he fought and beat, nobody should honestly be voted in, outside of maybe Greb.

[armageto]

Also, it was pretty much a dick move to promote your own fighters on my guys thread. You didn't mention how Monzon won on a cut on a fight he was losing. You also didn't mention the two draws were debatable for him, one really looked like a loss. You also didn't mention more than 25% of Monzon's fights were against non-managed fighters, and a lot of lower level ones at that.

You started managing Hagler towards the end of the season, so a good amount of his wins came from another manager. Yeah, Hagler won some belts because you picked him up when he was highly rated and there was belts in the Super Six. If Ray lost too many big fights, then why did Hagler NEVER make a successful title defense under you? Hagler has solid wins over Greb and Robinson (MD/SD), then he's 0-2 against other HOF competition. His other wins are against good opponents, but not the top guys of the season. I'm Steele's manager, but that's how he got 3 belts, come on.....

[gilgamesh]

I honestly don't know if this season truly HAS any Hall of Famers except for Greb, but if it does then I'd have to say Robinson is it.

Though it took a referee to get him that 2nd "win" over Greb, his track record against the rest of the field of competition showed he was a truly great operator.

So it's a fine line here, but I'm gonna lean towards yes.

[Crease]

I honestly don't know if this season truly HAS any Hall of Famers except for Greb

That pretty much sums up how I feel about this season.

[armageto]

Well, I vote yes for Robinson, so mark me down.

Robinson had a better overall season point total and is 2-1 vs Greb, so if Greb is in, it's hard not seeing Robinson in.

[Crease]

Robinson had a better overall season point total and is 2-1 vs Greb, so if Greb is in, it's hard not seeing Robinson in.

You don't think that Greb has proven himself to be a cut above the rest of them?

[armageto]

Robinson had a better overall season point total and is 2-1 vs Greb, so if Greb is in, it's hard not seeing Robinson in.

You don't think that Greb has proven himself to be a cut above the rest of them?

Honestly, no. He belongs in the HOF for his accomplishments on winning two tournaments. It's not like he blew thru those tourneys. He was behind late on points until a cut beat Leonard in the million final. In the Super Six he has a draw, SD, and MD. I honestly thought Walker won their bout, which would have him winning the tourney. Greb does have some DQ losses, he also has a lot of close wins, as shown in both tourneys.

At the end, he has won both tournaments and a solid season after that. If we are putting a whole 40 weeks emphasis on 2 tournaments, roughly 12 fights, are we just discounting the other 28? Greb I'm pretty sure has a high rating, I take that into account too. He'd probably be the highest rated fighter, with the lowest season point total, in the HOF.

Again, I think he's in because of the two tournament wins. In those tournaments, he did get some breaks. I guess you'd have to, to win both. Overall season point total is a factor for the whole season. If that has zero bearing, just stop collecting that data. You dropped the ball just trying to Hagler in just off your accomplishments, rather than him being a co-managed HOF fighter.

[armageto]

IMO, Hagler, Walker, Robinson, and Leonard all could hold their own with Greb any week in the sim season. I have no problem with Greb getting in based on his tourney wins, but let's not make it seem guys couldn't hold a candle to him...

[Crease]

IMO, Hagler, Walker, Robinson, and Leonard all could hold their own with Greb any week in the sim season. I have no problem with Greb getting in based on his tourney wins, but let's not make it seem guys couldn't hold a candle to him...

Funny how you didn't mention Monzon there.

[armageto]

IMO, Hagler, Walker, Robinson, and Leonard all could hold their own with Greb any week in the sim season. I have no problem with Greb getting in based on his tourney wins, but let's not make it seem guys couldn't hold a candle to him...

Funny how you didn't mention Monzon there.

Because he was 0-2 vs Greb? Because he is 3-5-3 against other fighters going up in the HOF voting. Robinson is 6-5-3 against fighters going up for the HOF and 2-1 vs Greb. I don't care to look up the other guys. Do you see the difference?

[armageto]

I just did Greb, he's 7-2-2 against other current HOF running fighters. That really is impressive! Another reason he should be in the Hall.

So I really have zero issue with Greb getting in. It's more than the tournaments to get him in.

Either which way, if Robinson isn't in the Hall, nobody else should be, barring Greb.

[BoxBuzz]

being part of the conspiracy that kicked me out of my fair and square first draft status, I should hold a grudge.....and yes....I'm petty and small so I do hold a grudge.....which stems as far back as some of the first seasons played out here....


However......Ray is due his fair shake.

and I say aye.

[HyacinthusTurnipseed]

Just, and only just too inconsistent over the 2nd half of the season to quite make it for me, so my vote is NO.

[Fist of Legend]

just to be nice I'm voting yes to everyone

[Crease]

Thread Closed!

Sugar Ray Robinson is hereby admitted into the Hall Of Fame for now and all time!!!

Congratulations to him and his Manager, Mr Armageto.