Mexi-Box wrote: ↑24 Mar 2018, 19:04
Indongo sucks, and he's always sucked. Beating a washed up Ricky Burns and an untested Troyanovsky doesn't change it. H2H I think Joel Diaz Jr. beats Indongo.
Sorry amigo...gotta disagree on this one. I gave some ground on Indongo (and gave you due credit for saying Regis would win easily) when I said "I overrated him" before the Prograis fight. That being said "Indongo sucks" is a relative term.
He does suck compared to special talents like Crawford and Prograis, but compared to legit top 10-15 guys like Troyanovsky and Burns, Indongo has proven himself. I'm pretty sure you wouldnt say newly crowned WBA 140# champ Kiryl Relikh "sucks" after dominating Barthelemy on the Garcia-Lipinets undercard. Your "washed up" Ricky Burns handed Relikh his ONLY legit pro loss (the Barthelemy 'loss' was a robbery). In fact that clearcut Burns win was just a few months before Indongo dominated Burns to garner the WBA belt Indongo took home from Scotland.
Troyanovsky has had 2 KO wins over decent comp since Indongo destroyed him on his home Russian turf and is now mandatory challenger to Relikh's WBA title, for which he has more than a punchers' chance to win.
Final point. Your boy Joel Diaz has far weaker credentials than Indongo, Burns OR Troyanovsky.
Joel Diaz' "career-defining" win (from a resume' of mediocre journeymen like Joaquim Carneiro and faded trailhorses like Luis Arceo) is a KO of china-chinned pretender Mario Beltre, who's been KOd in 4 of his last 6 bouts (only made it past the 2nd round once).
To be realistic, after 2 crushing losses I wont be surprised if Indongo is a shell of his former self, but I wouldnt put too much stock in Diaz either. He hasnt fought in almost 10 months since Prograis crushed him and Joel may just decide at age 26 to take some college classes & pursue another line of work.
Joel Diaz did pretty well against Prograis while Indongo just folded up. That's a lot better of a performance than getting wiped out in 1 by a guy like Indongo.
Also, I've seen several people say Relikh beat Burns. I've not seen the fight, but we can safely assume that Relikh is a lot better than that sole fight given who he ended up beating. Seriously, I'm not too sure people on BoxRec even watch fights. Seems they just look at BoxRec records and rankings and go from there.
Troyanovsky, Burns, and Indongo are just relics of the old guard that was horrifically weak during Crawford's time-span. Neither are going to move on and do anything in the division.
Diaz DID show heart vs Reggie, which is more than Indongo showed but I really believe Indongo's confidence was shattered by the loss to Crawford: You could hear it in his voice & see it in his demeanor at the prefight interview on Showtime before the Prograis bout. I mean how many fighters have actually relocated their fistic careers to the home-base of the fighter who just demolished them? That is exactly what Indongo did by moving to Omaha.
The jury is still out on Diaz Jr, to see how that crushing loss affects his career. I definitely would NOT include him in the "new blood" group you talk about at 140. I'm starting to see that your dislike of Indongo may just be rooted in dislike/disrespect of Crawford. He dominated an unbeaten Postol in a fight many people picked the Ukrainian to win, especially after his demolition of Matthysse, who was long considered the most fearsome fighter at 140. TC also dominated Felix Diaz, who was as good or better than anyone not named Garcia or Prograis (still not sure if Regis has reached Felix' prime level yet).
Prograis is the only current 140# fighter (other than Mikey) to give any hint of being on the level of the once-feared Matthysse. I'm not that impressed with Relikh (nowhere near Postol in his prime) or Jose Ramirez. I was picking Ramirez to demolish the overrated Amir Imam and figured for sure Jose would stop him easier than the less-talented Adrian Granados did. Before he moved to WW, Felix Diaz was as good or better than anyone but Mikey & Regis in today's 140# landscape.
BOTTOM LINE: Imo the division is no deeper than it was when Crawford reigned and Terence at 140 would have handled either Mikey or Regis (current versions or future versions).
Best Coast wrote: ↑24 Mar 2018, 23:19
Sorry amigo...gotta disagree on this one. I gave some ground on Indongo (and gave you due credit for saying Regis would win easily) when I said "I overrated him" before the Prograis fight. That being said "Indongo sucks" is a relative term.
He does suck compared to special talents like Crawford and Prograis, but compared to legit top 10-15 guys like Troyanovsky and Burns, Indongo has proven himself. I'm pretty sure you wouldnt say newly crowned WBA 140# champ Kiryl Relikh "sucks" after dominating Barthelemy on the Garcia-Lipinets undercard. Your "washed up" Ricky Burns handed Relikh his ONLY legit pro loss (the Barthelemy 'loss' was a robbery). In fact that clearcut Burns win was just a few months before Indongo dominated Burns to garner the WBA belt Indongo took home from Scotland.
Troyanovsky has had 2 KO wins over decent comp since Indongo destroyed him on his home Russian turf and is now mandatory challenger to Relikh's WBA title, for which he has more than a punchers' chance to win.
Final point. Your boy Joel Diaz has far weaker credentials than Indongo, Burns OR Troyanovsky.
Joel Diaz' "career-defining" win (from a resume' of mediocre journeymen like Joaquim Carneiro and faded trailhorses like Luis Arceo) is a KO of china-chinned pretender Mario Beltre, who's been KOd in 4 of his last 6 bouts (only made it past the 2nd round once).
To be realistic, after 2 crushing losses I wont be surprised if Indongo is a shell of his former self, but I wouldnt put too much stock in Diaz either. He hasnt fought in almost 10 months since Prograis crushed him and Joel may just decide at age 26 to take some college classes & pursue another line of work.
Joel Diaz did pretty well against Prograis while Indongo just folded up. That's a lot better of a performance than getting wiped out in 1 by a guy like Indongo.
Also, I've seen several people say Relikh beat Burns. I've not seen the fight, but we can safely assume that Relikh is a lot better than that sole fight given who he ended up beating. Seriously, I'm not too sure people on BoxRec even watch fights. Seems they just look at BoxRec records and rankings and go from there.
Troyanovsky, Burns, and Indongo are just relics of the old guard that was horrifically weak during Crawford's time-span. Neither are going to move on and do anything in the division.
Diaz DID show heart vs Reggie, which is more than Indongo showed but I really believe Indongo's confidence was shattered by the loss to Crawford: You could hear it in his voice & see it in his demeanor at the prefight interview on Showtime before the Prograis bout. I mean how many fighters have actually relocated their fistic careers to the home-base of the fighter who just demolished them? That is exactly what Indongo did by moving to Omaha.
The jury is still out on Diaz Jr, to see how that crushing loss affects his career. I definitely would NOT include him in the "new blood" group you talk about at 140. I'm starting to see that your dislike of Indongo may just be rooted in dislike/disrespect of Crawford. He dominated an unbeaten Postol in a fight many people picked the Ukrainian to win, especially after his demolition of Matthysse, who was long considered the most fearsome fighter at 140. TC also dominated Felix Diaz, who was as good or better than anyone not named Garcia or Prograis (still not sure if Regis has reached Felix' prime level yet).
Prograis is the only current 140# fighter (other than Mikey) to give any hint of being on the level of the once-feared Matthysse. I'm not that impressed with Relikh (nowhere near Postol in his prime) or Jose Ramirez. I was picking Ramirez to demolish the overrated Amir Imam and figured for sure Jose would stop him easier than the less-talented Adrian Granados did. Before he moved to WW, Felix Diaz was as good or better than anyone but Mikey & Regis in today's 140# landscape.
BOTTOM LINE: Imo the division is no deeper than it was when Crawford reigned and Terence at 140 would have handled either Mikey or Regis (current versions or future versions).
Granados did not have an easy time stopping Imam. He got dropped very hard and was, IIRC, on his way to losing the fight.
You do know Josh Taylor is also a very good fighter, not just Prograis. I'd take Josh Taylor, Regis Prograis, and Jose Ramirez over Indongo, Burns, and Felix Diaz Jr. Yes, the division is exponentially better currently than when Crawford was fighting.
Best Coast wrote: ↑25 Mar 2018, 00:45
Diaz DID show heart vs Reggie, which is more than Indongo showed but I really believe Indongo's confidence was shattered by the loss to Crawford: You could hear it in his voice & see it in his demeanor at the prefight interview on Showtime before the Prograis bout. I mean how many fighters have actually relocated their fistic careers to the home-base of the fighter who just demolished them? That is exactly what Indongo did by moving to Omaha.
The jury is still out on Diaz Jr, to see how that crushing loss affects his career. I definitely would NOT include him in the "new blood" group you talk about at 140. I'm starting to see that your dislike of Indongo may just be rooted in dislike/disrespect of Crawford. He dominated an unbeaten Postol in a fight many people picked the Ukrainian to win, especially after his demolition of Matthysse, who was long considered the most fearsome fighter at 140. TC also dominated Felix Diaz, who was as good or better than anyone not named Garcia or Prograis (still not sure if Regis has reached Felix' prime level yet).
Prograis is the only current 140# fighter (other than Mikey) to give any hint of being on the level of the once-feared Matthysse. I'm not that impressed with Relikh (nowhere near Postol in his prime) or Jose Ramirez. I was picking Ramirez to demolish the overrated Amir Imam and figured for sure Jose would stop him easier than the less-talented Adrian Granados did. Before he moved to WW, Felix Diaz was as good or better than anyone but Mikey & Regis in today's 140# landscape.
tin
BOTTOM LINE: Imo the division is no deeper than it was when Crawford reigned and Terence at 140 would have handled either Mikey or Regis (current versions or future versions).
Granados did not have an easy time stopping Imam. He got dropped very hard and was, IIRC, on his way to losing the fight.
You do know Josh Taylor is also a very good fighter, not just Prograis. I'd take Josh Taylor, Regis Prograis, and Jose Ramirez over Indongo, Burns, and Felix Diaz Jr. Yes, the division is exponentially better currently than when Crawford was fighting.
Burns is not even fighting at 140 any more, he's back at 135. Besides, Postol is far better than Burns anyway. When Crawford was in the middle of his 140# reign, the top fighters at 140 were Postol, Diaz Jr and Matthysse. Only time will tell if Taylor, Prograis & Ramirez turn out to be better than Postol, Matthysse & Diaz were at 140.
I dont see any of those 3 current 140# rising stars reaching the level of Crawford. Are you saying any of those 3 will eventually be better than Crawford?
You seem to underrate Crawford so I'd be interested to know your prediction on that. If either Taylor, Prograis or Ramirez UNIFIES at 140 & moves up to a WW class as strong as what TC is just now entering, I'll be VERY surprised. I see Prograis as having the best future of the 3, but I dont see him matching or surpassing Crawford..
Best Coast wrote: ↑25 Mar 2018, 00:45
Diaz DID show heart vs Reggie, which is more than Indongo showed but I really believe Indongo's confidence was shattered by the loss to Crawford: You could hear it in his voice & see it in his demeanor at the prefight interview on Showtime before the Prograis bout. I mean how many fighters have actually relocated their fistic careers to the home-base of the fighter who just demolished them? That is exactly what Indongo did by moving to Omaha.
The jury is still out on Diaz Jr, to see how that crushing loss affects his career. I definitely would NOT include him in the "new blood" group you talk about at 140. I'm starting to see that your dislike of Indongo may just be rooted in dislike/disrespect of Crawford. He dominated an unbeaten Postol in a fight many people picked the Ukrainian to win, especially after his demolition of Matthysse, who was long considered the most fearsome fighter at 140. TC also dominated Felix Diaz, who was as good or better than anyone not named Garcia or Prograis (still not sure if Regis has reached Felix' prime level yet).
Prograis is the only current 140# fighter (other than Mikey) to give any hint of being on the level of the once-feared Matthysse. I'm not that impressed with Relikh (nowhere near Postol in his prime) or Jose Ramirez. I was picking Ramirez to demolish the overrated Amir Imam and figured for sure Jose would stop him easier than the less-talented Adrian Granados did. Before he moved to WW, Felix Diaz was as good or better than anyone but Mikey & Regis in today's 140# landscape.
tin
BOTTOM LINE: Imo the division is no deeper than it was when Crawford reigned and Terence at 140 would have handled either Mikey or Regis (current versions or future versions).
Granados did not have an easy time stopping Imam. He got dropped very hard and was, IIRC, on his way to losing the fight.
You do know Josh Taylor is also a very good fighter, not just Prograis. I'd take Josh Taylor, Regis Prograis, and Jose Ramirez over Indongo, Burns, and Felix Diaz Jr. Yes, the division is exponentially better currently than when Crawford was fighting.
Burns is not even fighting at 140 any more, he's back at 135. Besides, Postol is far better than Burns anyway. When Crawford was in the middle of his 140# reign, the top fighters at 140 were Postol, Diaz Jr and Matthysse. Only time will tell if Taylor, Prograis & Ramirez turn out to be better than Postol, Matthysse & Diaz were at 140.
I dont see any of those 3 current 140# rising stars reaching the level of Crawford. Are you saying any of those 3 will eventually be better than Crawford?
You seem to underrate Crawford so I'd be interested to know your prediction on that. If either Taylor, Prograis or Ramirez UNIFIES at 140 & moves up to a WW class as strong as what TC is just now entering, I'll be VERY surprised. I see Prograis as having the best future of the 3, but I dont see him matching or surpassing Crawford..
Where did you get that statement from my post. As I said, Postol, Diaz Jr., and the version of Matthysse that was at 140 lbs. at the time < Prograis, Taylor, and Ramirez. That's simply my statement.
Granados did not have an easy time stopping Imam. He got dropped very hard and was, IIRC, on his way to losing the fight.
You do know Josh Taylor is also a very good fighter, not just Prograis. I'd take Josh Taylor, Regis Prograis, and Jose Ramirez over Indongo, Burns, and Felix Diaz Jr. Yes, the division is exponentially better currently than when Crawford was fighting.
Burns is not even fighting at 140 any more, he's back at 135. Besides, Postol is far better than Burns anyway. When Crawford was in the middle of his 140# reign, the top fighters at 140 were Postol, Diaz Jr and Matthysse. Only time will tell if Taylor, Prograis & Ramirez turn out to be better than Postol, Matthysse & Diaz were at 140.
I dont see any of those 3 current 140# rising stars reaching the level of Crawford. Are you saying any of those 3 will eventually be better than Crawford?
You seem to underrate Crawford so I'd be interested to know your prediction on that. If either Taylor, Prograis or Ramirez UNIFIES at 140 & moves up to a WW class as strong as what TC is just now entering, I'll be VERY surprised. I see Prograis as having the best future of the 3, but I dont see him matching or surpassing Crawford..
Where did you get that statement from my post. As I said, Postol, Diaz Jr., and the version of Matthysse that was at 140 lbs. at the time < Prograis, Taylor, and Ramirez. That's simply my statement.
Only time will tell how the younger 140# stars' careers play out. I know you never said directly that Crawford is overrated, but your dismissing of his victories at 140# seems to imply you may think he's overrated. Am I assuming too much?
