Who has the best Ring intelligence in boxing history?

[jas80s]

[
So he didn't have good skills yet but everyone was ducking him? Makes perfect sense haha. You have little knowledge of the sport if thats how you think it works. Guys would have bitten their arm off to fight him, especially after seeing how poor he was.

No.... They saw how devastating he could be and wanted no part of him... If you're that poor you don't win all your fights with an 83% KO ratio... It was beyond doubt that Too Tall Jones was going to get better with each fight because he was an extremely dedicated athlete... That's why they shut him down.

Why give him a guy who won most of his 31 fights when he has 2 fights.... 3 weeks into his careeer... and give him a lard assed rook for his 6th fight? After making him wait around for months when he wants to fight every week?

He didn't want to fight every week...He talked about fighting and he said that fighting six times in a year was..."A LOT". Doesn't sound like a guy who wanted to fight 52 times in that year. The answer he gives is around 1:25 to 1:35 or so..



I'm sure there is an interview in the New York Times or the Minneapolis Tribune where he goes on and on about needing to fight every week, but I think I will take him at his word right here if it's cool with you.

[oogiebe]

He didn't want to fight every week...He talked about fighting and he said that fighting six times in a year was..."A LOT". Doesn't sound like a guy who wanted to fight 52 times in that year. The answer he gives is around 1:25 to 1:35 or so..



I'm sure there is an interview in the New York Times or the Minneapolis Tribune where he goes on and on about needing to fight every week, but I think I will take him at his word right here if it's cool with you.
[/quote]

Thank God...now maybe we can go onto something else, like boxing.

[Kalan]

Boxing is a lot like chess. You set up traps.

Those 'Little Things' are what I love about the science. subtleties...many don't see.

I remember in a couple of later fights Qawi faking as if he was going to take a count then blasting back with a big shot. Quality old man trick.

Unless the referee wants an excuse to stop the fight in your opponent's favor... Like Kovalev bending over from a low blow, possibly trying to get a big opening for a KO shot -- and Tony Weeks sees his chance "Ah HAH!! Fight's OVER!!!"

Every good coach tells you to never assume you're opponent is gone or out on his feet from a good shot... You remain responsible on defense at all times and rip him out... Even when the bell rings you have to be extremely wary when you're in hostile territory... You'll be hit after the bell... when you're down... behind the head... on the break... below the belt... with an elbow... or the referee will grab your wrist and pull it away when your opponent tries to tie you up..

It doesn't do any good to complain or get upset and frustrated about biased officiating... That's what they want... You respond by stepping it up and getting rid of the other guy if you can.. It's an urgent situation so go for it.

[Controversial]

[
So he didn't have good skills yet but everyone was ducking him? Makes perfect sense haha. You have little knowledge of the sport if thats how you think it works. Guys would have bitten their arm off to fight him, especially after seeing how poor he was.

No.... They saw how devastating he could be and wanted no part of him... If you're that poor you don't win all your fights with an 83% KO ratio... It was beyond doubt that Too Tall Jones was going to get better with each fight because he was an extremely dedicated athlete... That's why they shut him down.

Why give him a guy who won most of his 31 fights when he has 2 fights.... 3 weeks into his careeer... and give him a lard assed rook for his 6th fight? After making him wait around for months when he wants to fight every week?

What are you talking about, that makes absolutely zero sense. So they ducked him because he might get better in the future? What planet are you on hahaha. Who waited around for months?

How is 18 wins in 31 fights winning most of them? Who had Montes beaten at that stage that made him so great anyway? Most of the guys he had beaten had terrible records. The guy was a nobody and an out of shape one at that. He was 23lb heavier than he was in his previous fight 2 months earlier which is why he was called fat in the press. All the guys Jones fought were regular journeymen, nothing great about any of them. Their plan was to fight for two years and then move onto taking on the contenders, so that would be two years of fighting the same calibre of guys he was pitched against. The problem is it soon became apparent he was struggling with them so walked away before being beaten up.

[Kalan]

He didn't want to fight every week...He talked about fighting and he said that fighting six times in a year was..."A LOT". Doesn't sound like a guy who wanted to fight 52 times in that year. The answer he gives is around 1:25 to 1:35 or so..



I'm sure there is an interview in the New York Times or the Minneapolis Tribune where he goes on and on about needing to fight every week, but I think I will take him at his word right here if it's cool with you.

Thank God...now maybe we can go onto something else, like boxing. [/quote]

Right... Like he's going to bitch about his boxing career when he's talking to a national audience of Football fans???

[Kalan]

[
So he didn't have good skills yet but everyone was ducking him? Makes perfect sense haha. You have little knowledge of the sport if thats how you think it works. Guys would have bitten their arm off to fight him, especially after seeing how poor he was.

No.... They saw how devastating he could be and wanted no part of him... If you're that poor you don't win all your fights with an 83% KO ratio... It was beyond doubt that Too Tall Jones was going to get better with each fight because he was an extremely dedicated athlete... That's why they shut him down.

Why give him a guy who won most of his 31 fights when he has 2 fights.... 3 weeks into his careeer... and give him a lard assed rook for his 6th fight? After making him wait around for months when he wants to fight every week?

What are you talking about, that makes absolutely zero sense. So they ducked him because he might get better in the future? What planet are you on hahaha. Who waited around for months?

Get better in the future??? He was getting better with each fight.... 3 weeks into his career he smashed a guy out in 41 seconds who beat a Heavyweight Title Challenger for Joe Frazier.... He could hit.... An errant shot could knock you out... Essentially their mode was, "Let's not wait for him to get 10 X better... Let's get him out of the game''

Any super athlete that size who can punch, is capable of tearing your head off.

[oogiebe]

Kalan...open a new thread on this so we stay on topic. Thanks!

[Kalan]

I did't take it off topic... People immediately started trashing Too Tall Jones as if he's a replica of Wilt Chamberlain... He's 4 inches shorter and 35 pounds lighter and didn't dominate his sport.... But, somehow he's Chamberlain.

However, part of being a super athlete such as Too Tall is great intellect... You have to figure out how to win in any environment... Even when corrupt referees allow your opponent to shove you to the floor and smash you in the head as hard as they can without getting penalized... Too Tall wasn't hurt... He kept sparring and fought his next 2 fights very quickly.

[oogiebe]

I did't take it off topic... People immediately started trashing Too Tall Jones as if he's a replica of Wilt Chamberlain... He's 4 inches shorter and 35 pounds lighter and didn't dominate his sport.... But, somehow he's Chamberlain.

However, part of being a super athlete such as Too Tall is great intellect... You have to figure out how to win in any environment... Even when corrupt referees allow your opponent to shove you to the floor and smash in the head as hard as they can without getting penalized... Too Tall wasn't hurt... He kept sparring and fought his next 2 fights very quickly.

I wasn't being critical.. It was a real suggestion. No biggie.

[Kalan]

I don't need to start threads on Too Tall and Chamberlain.... I started one on Chamberlain vs Ali and it ran for 86 pages... And started a flurry of duplicate threads... Seems there's a lot of hate and misinformation out there...

NOBODY HAS EVER given an explanation as to why Ali was on TV promoting a fight with Wilt Chamberlain when he refused to sign the negotiated contract and told Chamberlain to "Just hold your pen. Don't rush things." ,,, Or explained how it's rushing things to sign a negotiated contract for which you're already on TV promoting the fight???

NOBODY EVER explained WHY Ali said, "I accept your challenge .... after I fight a few more contenders IF I beat them." .... Why do you want to fight a few more contenders first if you're on TV promoting a fight with Wilt Chamberlain???

For anybody who doubts Ali waffled https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

[Controversial]

An errant shot could knock you out...

Anyone can be knocked out, he certainly didn't prove his punch was anything special

[Counter-puncher]

why on earth do people carry on indulging him in arguments?

he's totally dogmatic and not remotely open to reason, you may as well start a discussion with a yapping dog or a crying baby.

so much time and energy wasted

use the 'ignore' function. go back to having discussions with people who are actually willing to discuss.

your time on here will be more enjoyable and much less frustrating.

[Counter-puncher]

remember the 'inspiration' for this thread- you're arguing with someone who said Chris Eubank Jr is 'one of the smartest boxers in the history of the sport. Jake LaMotta would 'piss his pants' if he was in the ring with someone with the 'power, speed and skill' of Eubank. the same Eubank who has no proven skill or power at world level

you want to bother arguing with this? he drools that Eubank is one of the smartest boxers of all time, then carries on defending the ridiculous opinion when he is called out on it.

you want to waste your time arguing with that? Chris Eubank jr 'smartest in boxing history', who would make Lamotta 'piss his pants'?

you want to waste your time on that? we're all insane for doing so. we've all wasted far too much time, and worse, used up far too much forum space induging him

its time to stop.

[Kalan]

An errant shot could knock you out...

Anyone can be knocked out, he certainly didn't prove his punch was anything special

An 83% KO ratio that going up with every single fight is pretty special...

Especially if you have 2 or 3 amateur fights because you weren't allowed to compete in the amateurs because you were too big and strong for the other guys... They'd be pulled out by their parents, coaches, or the other Heavyweight would just refuse to get in there because he didn't feel good... That's not the case for almost anyone, but it was for Too Tall.

If you're hitting people with grazing shots and getting the out you've got power... Somebody standing 6'9" X 250, solid as a brick, with unreal big, powerful, long arms, tremendous speed, an All Pro Football Player and the best Defensive End in the NFL -- who runs through highly paid 300 pound offensive linemen, is going get people out if he can land his shots.

[Kalan]

A major problem, if you’re a really big, tall, strong, long, fast, smart, rock hard, and a super powerful punching Heavyweight is your sparring will dry up... If you’re well-conditioned, training very diligently, and showing up every day, you’re going to start learning how to box. Punches that were missing before will start connecting.

Your spar-mates will start taking big shots, get big headaches, and stop coming in. They’ll get the flu. Their babysitter didn’t show. Their car’s in the shop. Their wife made them quit. Their beloved dog is ill. Their brother-in-law's in jail. Their sister is in the hospital from an overdose … whatever the reasons, they’re not there... You have nobody to spar with.

If you hire yourself out as a sparring partner you have to be extremely intelligent about it. If you out-box your employer or hit him really hard you'll get your walking papers. “You’re doing a great job for us, but there’s not many guys as big as you who we need to prepare for... I'm sorry to say this, but with the mix of spar-mates we have, we’re not going to need you for the rest of this camp....but stay in touch.” .... Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah ..... stay in touch…keep the light on for me.

You can realize too late that boxing is a business and not a sport... You need to be a businessman first.

George Foreman became the smartest businessman in Fistic History after he turned 38.. That’s an age where most boxers give way to the next generation, but Foreman had a business plan.... He picked the right fights and painstakingly rebuilt his image. The super nice, self-effacing guy who was always smiling, joking, and everybody’s favorite uncle.

Everybody loved George and endorsement offers came in... He had to pick and choose he had so many... He made 10 X as much with commercial endorsements as he ever did as a boxer – all starting after he reached middle age.

Not too bad.

[jas80s]

A major problem, if you’re a really big, tall, strong, long, fast, smart, rock hard, and a super powerful punching Heavyweight is your sparring will dry up... If you’re well-conditioned, training very diligently, and showing up every day, you’re going to start learning how to box. Punches that were missing before will start connecting.

Your spar-mates will start taking big shots, get big headaches, and stop coming in. They’ll get the flu. Their babysitter didn’t show. Their car’s in the shop. Their wife made them quit. Their beloved dog is ill. Their brother-in-law's in jail. Their sister is in the hospital from an overdose … whatever the reasons, they’re not there... You have nobody to spar with.

If you hire yourself out as a sparring partner you have to be extremely intelligent about it. If you out-box your employer or hit him really hard you'll get your walking papers. “You’re doing a great job for us, but there’s not many guys as big as you who we need to prepare for... I'm sorry to say this, but with the mix of spar-mates we have, we’re not going to need you for the rest of this camp....but stay in touch.” .... Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah ..... stay in touch…keep the light on for me.

You can realize too late that boxing is a business and not a sport... You need to be a businessman first.

George Foreman became the smartest businessman in Fistic History after he turned 38.. That’s an age where most boxers give way to the next generation, but Foreman had a business plan.... He picked the right fights and painstakingly rebuilt his image. The super nice, self-effacing guy who was always smiling, joking, and everybody’s favorite uncle.

Everybody loved George and endorsement offers came in... He had to pick and choose he had so many... He made 10 X as much with commercial endorsements as he ever did as a boxer – all starting after he reached middle age.

Not too bad.

The first three paragraphs of that have GOT to be auto biographical...

Just hoping for another story about obliterating a top pro and then being blackballed....The story is there for sure.

[oogiebe]

I was just curious about the relevance...

[Kalan]

A major problem, if you’re a really big, tall, strong, long, fast, smart, rock hard, and a super powerful punching Heavyweight is your sparring will dry up... If you’re well-conditioned, training very diligently, and showing up every day, you’re going to start learning how to box. Punches that were missing before will start connecting.

Your spar-mates will start taking big shots, get big headaches, and stop coming in. They’ll get the flu. Their babysitter didn’t show. Their car’s in the shop. Their wife made them quit. Their beloved dog is ill. Their brother-in-law's in jail. Their sister is in the hospital from an overdose … whatever the reasons, they’re not there... You have nobody to spar with.

If you hire yourself out as a sparring partner you have to be extremely intelligent about it. If you out-box your employer or hit him really hard you'll get your walking papers. “You’re doing a great job for us, but there’s not many guys as big as you who we need to prepare for... I'm sorry to say this, but with the mix of spar-mates we have, we’re not going to need you for the rest of this camp....but stay in touch.” .... Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah ..... stay in touch…keep the light on for me.

You can realize too late that boxing is a business and not a sport... You need to be a businessman first.

George Foreman became the smartest businessman in Fistic History after he turned 38.. That’s an age where most boxers give way to the next generation, but Foreman had a business plan.... He picked the right fights and painstakingly rebuilt his image. The super nice, self-effacing guy who was always smiling, joking, and everybody’s favorite uncle.

Everybody loved George and endorsement offers came in... He had to pick and choose he had so many... He made 10 X as much with commercial endorsements as he ever did as a boxer – all starting after he reached middle age.

Not too bad.

The first three paragraphs of that have GOT to be auto biographical...

Just hoping for another story about obliterating a top pro and then being blackballed....The story is there for sure.

WTF??? ... This is all about Too Tall Jones.

This is what happened to the man... He got 3 fights and 3 weeks... He started learning a little bit about what he was doing from fight to fight.... He starts connecting with more punches that he throws and feeling more comfortable... He get's Montes out in 41 seconds.... The next cat who's no damned good at all goes out in 2 rounds....with Jones barely taking a punch that he can feel.... He know he still has many miles to go to get his game up to where a Championship athlete needs it to be, but he needs cooperation.

He needs many more fights much more quickly because he's 28 years old and requires a decent income to pay all his monthly obligations.... These dirt bags he signed with are promising him sparring partners and fights and nothing is happening.... Everything slows down to a crawl... No fights... No sparring... No progression.

Doesn't work... He needed an MBA to deal with those people, because athleticism wasn't getting it done.

[oogiebe]

We know, we know...relax.

[Kalan]

I'm always relaxed....

So you agree Too Tall was a great athlete and great prospect after all....and just needed the right fights? YAAAAY

[oogiebe]

As my 12 year old would say, "sure thing!"

[jas80s]

A major problem, if you’re a really big, tall, strong, long, fast, smart, rock hard, and a super powerful punching Heavyweight is your sparring will dry up... If you’re well-conditioned, training very diligently, and showing up every day, you’re going to start learning how to box. Punches that were missing before will start connecting.

Your spar-mates will start taking big shots, get big headaches, and stop coming in. They’ll get the flu. Their babysitter didn’t show. Their car’s in the shop. Their wife made them quit. Their beloved dog is ill. Their brother-in-law's in jail. Their sister is in the hospital from an overdose … whatever the reasons, they’re not there... You have nobody to spar with.

If you hire yourself out as a sparring partner you have to be extremely intelligent about it. If you out-box your employer or hit him really hard you'll get your walking papers. “You’re doing a great job for us, but there’s not many guys as big as you who we need to prepare for... I'm sorry to say this, but with the mix of spar-mates we have, we’re not going to need you for the rest of this camp....but stay in touch.” .... Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah ..... stay in touch…keep the light on for me.

You can realize too late that boxing is a business and not a sport... You need to be a businessman first.

George Foreman became the smartest businessman in Fistic History after he turned 38.. That’s an age where most boxers give way to the next generation, but Foreman had a business plan.... He picked the right fights and painstakingly rebuilt his image. The super nice, self-effacing guy who was always smiling, joking, and everybody’s favorite uncle.

Everybody loved George and endorsement offers came in... He had to pick and choose he had so many... He made 10 X as much with commercial endorsements as he ever did as a boxer – all starting after he reached middle age.

Not too bad.

The first three paragraphs of that have GOT to be auto biographical...

Just hoping for another story about obliterating a top pro and then being blackballed....The story is there for sure.

WTF??? ... This is all about Too Tall Jones.

This is what happened to the man... He got 3 fights and 3 weeks... He started learning a little bit about what he was doing from fight to fight.... He starts connecting with more punches that he throws and feeling more comfortable... He get's Montes out in 41 seconds.... The next cat who's no damned good at all goes out in 2 rounds....with Jones barely taking a punch that he can feel.... He know he still has many miles to go to get his game up to where a Championship athlete needs it to be, but he needs cooperation.

He needs many more fights much more quickly because he's 28 years old and requires a decent income to pay all his monthly obligations.... These dirt bags he signed with are promising him sparring partners and fights and nothing is happening.... Everything slows down to a crawl... No fights... No sparring... No progression.

Doesn't work... He needed an MBA to deal with those people, because athleticism wasn't getting it done.

Well, come on now, you have been willing to share stories about yourself and your experiences in and out of the ring.

It just sounded like a take that came from personal experience....I have a feeling that what happened to Jones and what happened to you are not all that far apart. It would have been pretty cool if Larry Holmes had talked about ducking YOU..

Wait a second.....Are you Ed Too Tall Jones??

[Syntax Error]

remember the 'inspiration' for this thread- you're arguing with someone who said Chris Eubank Jr is 'one of the smartest boxers in the history of the sport. Jake LaMotta would 'piss his pants' if he was in the ring with someone with the 'power, speed and skill' of Eubank. the same Eubank who has no proven skill or power at world level

you want to bother arguing with this? he drools that Eubank is one of the smartest boxers of all time, then carries on defending the ridiculous opinion when he is called out on it.

you want to waste your time arguing with that? Chris Eubank jr 'smartest in boxing history', who would make Lamotta 'piss his pants'?

you want to waste your time on that? we're all insane for doing so. we've all wasted far too much time, and worse, used up far too much forum space induging him

its time to stop.

Did he really say that?

Chris Eubank Jr is not even the smartest boxer in his family, let alone the history of the sport.

[BitPlayer]

remember the 'inspiration' for this thread- you're arguing with someone who said Chris Eubank Jr is 'one of the smartest boxers in the history of the sport. Jake LaMotta would 'piss his pants' if he was in the ring with someone with the 'power, speed and skill' of Eubank. the same Eubank who has no proven skill or power at world level

you want to bother arguing with this? he drools that Eubank is one of the smartest boxers of all time, then carries on defending the ridiculous opinion when he is called out on it.

you want to waste your time arguing with that? Chris Eubank jr 'smartest in boxing history', who would make Lamotta 'piss his pants'?

you want to waste your time on that? we're all insane for doing so. we've all wasted far too much time, and worse, used up far too much forum space induging him

its time to stop.

Did he really say that?

Chris Eubank Jr is not even the smartest boxer in his family, let alone the history of the sport.

http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p ... 1#p4581561

[Kalan]

Let his career play out and I think you'll agree he's a good thinker.