Lewis was undisputed !!!! so was Wlad !!!!!

[funso banjo baby]

I found Wlad dull but only an idiot would suggest he wasn't undisputed heavyweight champion.

balls to the alphabets and the MSM ...don't let these parasites re-write history

[oogiebe]

Not only are they re-writing history, they are ruining the future...

[Syntax Error]

Spot on.

The phrase undisputed is meaningless largely, because it is practically impossible now due to the amount of alphabet organisations these days.

Some will say that those other organisations are a joke & their belts are meaningless, but are they really any more of a joke & are their belts any more meaningless than the so-called Big 4 & their belts?

I remember the IBF appearing out of thin air in the early 80s with little or no credibility; I also remember the WBO doing the same in the late 80s & folk refusing to acknowledge its existence, now they & their belts are considered 'prestigious'; so who decided that & why not apply the same standards to the other laughable alphabet organisations?

[oogiebe]

Spot on.

The phrase undisputed is meaningless largely, because it is practically impossible now due to the amount of alphabet organisations these days.

Some will say that those other organisations are a joke & their belts are meaningless, but are they really any more of a joke & are their belts any more meaningless than the so-called Big 4 & their belts?

I remember the IBF appearing out of thin air in the early 80s with little or no credibility; I also remember the WBO doing the same in the late 80s & folk refusing to acknowledge its existence, now they & their belts are considered 'prestigious'; so who decided that & why not apply the same standards to the other laughable alphabet organisations?

Having so many sanctioning bodies has watered down the competition. I truly believe this is the reason we don't see the big fights as often as we should. These bodies make so much more money by influencing; protecting; "bogus changes in ratings, etc. Keeps other sanctioning body's champs out of their rankings. We need a single body globally with oversight from within the boxing world. Sorry...I got on a roll...

[halfamill]

I remember the IBF appearing out of thin air in the early 80s with little or no credibility; I also remember the WBO doing the same in the late 80s & folk refusing to acknowledge its existence, now they & their belts are considered 'prestigious'; so who decided that & why not apply the same standards to the other laughable alphabet organisations?

I'd like to know that as well. IBO is slowly creeping up there.

[KiwiRider]

It's confusing to most people.
Hard core fight fans probably know who is the best at each weight, but it's still only an educated guess because the top guys rarely fight each other.
And that's bad for the sport. It waters it down.
Protecting unbeaten records is another sham. All of the greatest fighters from the past lost, and they lost by fighting the best.

[oogiebe]

It's confusing to most people.
Hard core fight fans probably know who is the best at each weight, but it's still only an educated guess because the top guys rarely fight each other.
And that's bad for the sport. It waters it down.
Protecting unbeaten records is another sham. All of the greatest fighters from the past lost, and they lost by fighting the best.

Yup! Sometimes beaten by NOT SO GOOD fighters too, but the ATG's always come back. Most ATG's have one bout that taught them so much, it catapulted them to the next level: Louis/Schmeling I; Ali/Frazier I (made Ali essentially quit the dancing as he learned that he could take so much punishment); Perhaps AJ/Parker more than Klitchko showed AJ he can dial it back when necessary and still win. Etc.

[tiny_acres]

I think there is a difference between undisputed and indisputable
Lewis was the undisputed champion having all of the belts.
Klitschko was indisputable by his longevity and dominance

[oogiebe]

I think there is a difference between undisputed and indisputable
Lewis was the undisputed champion having all of the belts.
Klitschko was indisputable by his longevity and dominance

THAT is fascinating point! We the fans, through our attendance and PPV buys show the sanctioning bodies who the best fighters are, or at least the best matchups. WE're losing our grip as the choices are dwindling. There could be an ATG out there, but the lack of top fighters v. Top fighters is disastrous.

[KiwiRider]

I think there is a difference between undisputed and indisputable
Lewis was the undisputed champion having all of the belts.
Klitschko was indisputable by his longevity and dominance

Nailed it!

[tiny_acres]

I think there is a difference between undisputed and indisputable
Lewis was the undisputed champion having all of the belts.
Klitschko was indisputable by his longevity and dominance

Nailed it!

Thanks. Sometimes I try to dumb down my thought process.

Too many belts too much politics. We've just got to use rational thought

[KiwiRider]

This unbeaten record thing pisses me off even more than the belt situation.
Stupid Fraud Wifebeater Jr
All of my past hero's in boxing have been beaten. A lot became my heros by getting back in the ring and besting those who beat them in the past.
Undisputed means ten times more to me than undefeated.
If your undefeated, you probably haven't been tested yet.

[oogiebe]

This unbeaten record thing pisses me off even more than the belt situation.
Stupid Fraud Wifebeater Jr
All of my past hero's in boxing have been beaten. A lot became my heros by getting back in the ring and besting those who beat them in the past.
Undisputed means ten times more to me than undefeated.
If your undefeated, you probably haven't been tested yet.

Of course. Here's a question, gentlemen.

Can a fighter be considered an ATG without having to overcome a loss?

[SenorPipino]

Fighters make the belts. A belt doesn't make a fighter.

Not in an era with 1000 weight divisions and 10,000 sanctioning bodies.

Everyone's a champion of something.

Fans know who the real champ is. He doesn't need to have 50 different belts hanging around his waist to prove anything.

[oogiebe]

Fighters make the belts. A belt doesn't make a fighter.

Not in an era with 1000 weight divisions and 10,000 sanctioning bodies.

Everyone's a champion of something.

Fans know who the real champ is. He doesn't need to have 50 different belts hanging around his waist to prove anything.

yup...I posted this earlier,

We the fans, through our attendance and PPV buys show the sanctioning bodies who the best fighters are, or at least the best matchups. WE're losing our grip as the choices are dwindling. There could be an ATG out there, but the lack of top fighters v. Top fighters is disastrous.

[KiwiRider]

Fighters make the belts. A belt doesn't make a fighter.

Not in an era with 1000 weight divisions and 10,000 sanctioning bodies.

Everyone's a champion of something.

Fans know who the real champ is. He doesn't need to have 50 different belts hanging around his waist to prove anything.

I have to disagree, or maybe I'm not a big enough fan
But I don't know who the best SMW, Lightweight, or most of the weights below Super Bantam is. I only have an inkling on who the best LHW and HW for me is up in the air.

*Edit*- I used to know those things in the '80's. I don't now, even with the massive help of the internet.

[oogiebe]

Fighters make the belts. A belt doesn't make a fighter.

Not in an era with 1000 weight divisions and 10,000 sanctioning bodies.

Everyone's a champion of something.

Fans know who the real champ is. He doesn't need to have 50 different belts hanging around his waist to prove anything.

I have to disagree, or maybe I'm not a big enough fan
But I don't know who the best SMW, Lightweight, or most of the weights below Super Bantam is. I only have an inkling on who the best LHW and HW for me is up in the air.

I too have problems with the lower weights for the same reason as you. I focus on heavy's much of the time. The lower weights seem to be more affected by the alphabet sanctioning bodies. It's very tough, plus, there is a lot of talent down there.

[KiwiRider]

Fighters make the belts. A belt doesn't make a fighter.

Not in an era with 1000 weight divisions and 10,000 sanctioning bodies.

Everyone's a champion of something.

Fans know who the real champ is. He doesn't need to have 50 different belts hanging around his waist to prove anything.

I have to disagree, or maybe I'm not a big enough fan
But I don't know who the best SMW, Lightweight, or most of the weights below Super Bantam is. I only have an inkling on who the best LHW and HW for me is up in the air.

I too have problems with the lower weights for the same reason as you. I focus on heavy's much of the time. The lower weights seem to be more affected by the alphabet sanctioning bodies. It's very tough, plus, there is a lot of talent down there.

If you focus on the heavier weights, then you have about the same clue as most people.
The WBSS will sort out cruiser for you (thank goodness) but it won't for SMW. HW will be up in the air until Povitkin/Wilder/Joshua happens, and LHW is a complete shambles.

[oogiebe]

I have to disagree, or maybe I'm not a big enough fan
But I don't know who the best SMW, Lightweight, or most of the weights below Super Bantam is. I only have an inkling on who the best LHW and HW for me is up in the air.

I too have problems with the lower weights for the same reason as you. I focus on heavy's much of the time. The lower weights seem to be more affected by the alphabet sanctioning bodies. It's very tough, plus, there is a lot of talent down there.

If you focus on the heavier weights, then you have about the same clue as most people.
The WBSS will sort out cruiser for you (thank goodness) but it won't for SMW. HW will be up in the air until Povitkin/Wilder/Joshua happens, and LHW is a complete shambles.

We know who the players are, but the lack of good fights in the lower divisions makes it difficult to rank. There is not so much talent at LHW and HW, so its only a handful of fighters. Welterweight is getting exciting!

[tiny_acres]

Fighters make the belts. A belt doesn't make a fighter.

Not in an era with 1000 weight divisions and 10,000 sanctioning bodies.

Everyone's a champion of something.

Fans know who the real champ is. He doesn't need to have 50 different belts hanging around his waist to prove anything.

I have to disagree, or maybe I'm not a big enough fan
But I don't know who the best SMW, Lightweight, or most of the weights below Super Bantam is. I only have an inkling on who the best LHW and HW for me is up in the air.

*Edit*- I used to know those things in the '80's. I don't now, even with the massive help of the internet.

It reminds me of when you were in school and the teacher would tell you to solve for X
But there wasn't enough information.
Sometimes we just have to wait until someone cleans up a division.

[Lackeos]

balls to the alphabets and the MSM ...don't let these parasites re-write history

That's what you're trying to do, though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_u ... _champions