klompton wrote: ↑30 Mar 2018, 00:01
It was seen as a mismatch because while Ballard was 23-3 he had been in with only two very fringe contenders, Clark, who he lost a wide decision to, and Bobick who he barely eaked out a win over with a one round swing on all cards. Pretty thin resume to be facing a man who was the undisputed HW champion one fight ago. BUT, lets be clear here, had Foreman and his people wanted this "fight" sanctioned they could have lobbied for it (Clancy, who was now handling Foreman, had a ton of pull in New York), switched venues, or switched opponents. This strongly suggests that they were all too pleased to keep this affair very informal for the sake of easing Big George back into competition.
Well, I'm sure that the bout with Ballard served its purpose toward getting Foreman prepared for more dangerous competition down the line. Though one would have thought that he'd have carried his opponent for a few rounds just to shake out the cobwebs, I suppose after how mediocre he looked during the "Toronto Five" affair though, he wasn't about to allow Ballard to extend him at all though.
Do you know of any other such exhibitions that Foreman may have had & with whom?
For instance, I owned a poster that listed an exhibition that was scheduled to take place between Foreman & Terry Hinke, Lonnie Bennett & three other heavyweights in Buffalo, but I have no idea whether it ever took place.
Foreman intended to carry Ballard but blamed Ballard for the quick KO saying something to the effect of "you cant carry a guy who isnt fighting back." He fought another identical "exhibition" bout December 17, 1975 against his former sparring partner Eddie Brooks at San Francisco on the undercard of the Ray Lunney-Tyrone Everett fight. He intended to carry Brooks but was getting booed by the crowd so he ended it in the fourth.
Foreman had several of those exhibition type appearances you refer to. He fought Terry Hinke, Larry Frazier, and another guy August 6, 1973 in Hawaii. May 2, 1973 he fought Hinke, Bossman Jones, and Lonnie Bennet in Reno in an exhibition. The exhibition you had the poster for an exhibition Foreman did in Buffalo May 14, 1973 as part of a five city exhibition tour. It took place but Foreman was criticized for his performance and the show lost money.
klompton wrote: ↑30 Mar 2018, 00:01
It was seen as a mismatch because while Ballard was 23-3 he had been in with only two very fringe contenders, Clark, who he lost a wide decision to, and Bobick who he barely eaked out a win over with a one round swing on all cards. Pretty thin resume to be facing a man who was the undisputed HW champion one fight ago. BUT, lets be clear here, had Foreman and his people wanted this "fight" sanctioned they could have lobbied for it (Clancy, who was now handling Foreman, had a ton of pull in New York), switched venues, or switched opponents. This strongly suggests that they were all too pleased to keep this affair very informal for the sake of easing Big George back into competition.
Well, I'm sure that the bout with Ballard served its purpose toward getting Foreman prepared for more dangerous competition down the line. Though one would have thought that he'd have carried his opponent for a few rounds just to shake out the cobwebs, I suppose after how mediocre he looked during the "Toronto Five" affair though, he wasn't about to allow Ballard to extend him at all though.
Do you know of any other such exhibitions that Foreman may have had & with whom?
For instance, I owned a poster that listed an exhibition that was scheduled to take place between Foreman & Terry Hinke, Lonnie Bennett & three other heavyweights in Buffalo, but I have no idea whether it ever took place.
Foreman intended to carry Ballard but blamed Ballard for the quick KO saying something to the effect of "you cant carry a guy who isnt fighting back." He fought another identical "exhibition" bout December 17, 1975 against his former sparring partner Eddie Brooks at San Francisco on the undercard of the Ray Lunney-Tyrone Everett fight. He intended to carry Brooks but was getting booed by the crowd so he ended it in the fourth.
Foreman had several of those exhibition type appearances you refer to. He fought Terry Hinke, Larry Frazier, and another guy August 6, 1973 in Hawaii. May 2, 1973 he fought Hinke, Bossman Jones, and Lonnie Bennet in Reno in an exhibition. The exhibition you had the poster for an exhibition Foreman did in Buffalo May 14, 1973 as part of a five city exhibition tour. It took place but Foreman was criticized for his performance and the show lost money.
I wonder if any film of Hinke exists. I know Wepner beat Hinke to get ranked #8 in the world.
klompton wrote: ↑30 Mar 2018, 00:01
It was seen as a mismatch because while Ballard was 23-3 he had been in with only two very fringe contenders, Clark, who he lost a wide decision to, and Bobick who he barely eaked out a win over with a one round swing on all cards. Pretty thin resume to be facing a man who was the undisputed HW champion one fight ago. BUT, lets be clear here, had Foreman and his people wanted this "fight" sanctioned they could have lobbied for it (Clancy, who was now handling Foreman, had a ton of pull in New York), switched venues, or switched opponents. This strongly suggests that they were all too pleased to keep this affair very informal for the sake of easing Big George back into competition.
Well, I'm sure that the bout with Ballard served its purpose toward getting Foreman prepared for more dangerous competition down the line. Though one would have thought that he'd have carried his opponent for a few rounds just to shake out the cobwebs, I suppose after how mediocre he looked during the "Toronto Five" affair though, he wasn't about to allow Ballard to extend him at all though.
Do you know of any other such exhibitions that Foreman may have had & with whom?
For instance, I owned a poster that listed an exhibition that was scheduled to take place between Foreman & Terry Hinke, Lonnie Bennett & three other heavyweights in Buffalo, but I have no idea whether it ever took place.
Foreman intended to carry Ballard but blamed Ballard for the quick KO saying something to the effect of "you cant carry a guy who isnt fighting back." He fought another identical "exhibition" bout December 17, 1975 against his former sparring partner Eddie Brooks at San Francisco on the undercard of the Ray Lunney-Tyrone Everett fight. He intended to carry Brooks but was getting booed by the crowd so he ended it in the fourth.
Foreman had several of those exhibition type appearances you refer to. He fought Terry Hinke, Larry Frazier, and another guy August 6, 1973 in Hawaii. May 2, 1973 he fought Hinke, Bossman Jones, and Lonnie Bennet in Reno in an exhibition. The exhibition you had the poster for an exhibition Foreman did in Buffalo May 14, 1973 as part of a five city exhibition tour. It took place but Foreman was criticized for his performance and the show lost money.
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge. It's much appreciated.
It's difficult enough learning more information about some of Foreman's early & lesser known bouts, but next to impossible to get info regarding his exhibition matches. So, you've helped a lot.
One of the more recent (passed 20 years) on television was Shaq vs De La Hoya for charity on television. Later on Shaq would box Shane Moseley as well.
Dolph Lundgren in action against Oleg Taktarov the former UFC champion on Russian television. He "won" the contest, showing that he was more than just an actor and "point karate" fighter.
Very, very light exhibition between Leon Spinks and Joe Lewis (kickboxer). Had it been the real deal I have little doubt Lewis would have beaten Spinks ass easily.
Very, very light exhibition between Leon Spinks and Joe Lewis (kickboxer). Had it been the real deal I have little doubt Lewis would have beaten Spinks ass easily.
Have to respectfully disagree with you regarding a real fight scenario between Leon & Lewis, HH.
At least if the fight took place in their respective primes when Spinks was in shape & actually putting forth an effort as opposed to later on in his career. Lewis, while a true pioneer in the world of American kickboxing, wasn't all that special skills-wise. He was just a decent walk-in banger with some average kicking ability. Plus he busted up around the eyes something fierce.
My pick would be Spinks via KO/TKO in about four rounds.
Very, very light exhibition between Leon Spinks and Joe Lewis (kickboxer). Had it been the real deal I have little doubt Lewis would have beaten Spinks ass easily.
Have to respectfully disagree with you regarding a real fight scenario between Leon & Lewis, HH.
At least if the fight took place in their respective primes when Spinks was in shape & actually putting forth an effort as opposed to later on in his career. Lewis, while a true pioneer in the world of American kickboxing, wasn't all that special skills-wise. He was just a decent walk-in banger with some average kicking ability. Plus he busted up around the eyes something fierce.
My pick would be Spinks via KO/TKO in about four rounds.
Average kicking ability? Boy oh boy, you need to get more educated on Joe Lewis and Bill Wallace and all of those guys from back in the day. The shame of it all is most video footage of them that's out there was "point fighting" where punches and kicks were pulled, or when they were passed their primes.
As for Neon Leon... Imho, the worst heavyweight champion of all time... He could beat a shell of Ali, and a few fringe guys but outside of that he was completely outclassed and out
gunned by everyone else with name recognition.
Last edited by HomicideHenry on 03 Apr 2018, 12:22, edited 1 time in total.
Very, very light exhibition between Leon Spinks and Joe Lewis (kickboxer). Had it been the real deal I have little doubt Lewis would have beaten Spinks ass easily.
Have to respectfully disagree with you regarding a real fight scenario between Leon & Lewis, HH.
At least if the fight took place in their respective primes when Spinks was in shape & actually putting forth an effort as opposed to later on in his career. Lewis, while a true pioneer in the world of American kickboxing, wasn't all that special skills-wise. He was just a decent walk-in banger with some average kicking ability. Plus he busted up around the eyes something fierce.
My pick would be Spinks via KO/TKO in about four rounds.
Average kicking ability? Boy oh boy, you need to get more educated on Joe Lewis and Bob Wallace and all of those guys from back in the day. The shame of it all is most video footage of them that's out there was "point fighting" where punches and kicks were pulled, or when they were passed their primes.
As for Neon Leon... Imho, the worst heavyweight champion of all time... He could beat a shell of Ali, and a few fringe guys but outside of that he was completely outclassed and out
gunned by everyone else with name recognition.
As a black belt in Hawaiian Kempo/Kajukenbo, I believe that I have a very good take on Lewis's attributes & abilities & IMO he was only an average kicker as far as his full contact career goes. He was a much better with hand techniques than he was at kicking which is why none other than Cus D'amato had some interest in turning him into a boxer. But, despite his proficiency at punching, he had no head movement whatsoever & again, he cut very easily, so the project was abandoned after he was beaten up badly & KO'd in a sparring session with Randy Neumann.
It's not his boxing ability per say that makes me say he'd beat Spinks, but the fact that he essentially had another discipline under his belt (kicks) and in a full contact scenario the man with multiple disciplines will almost always defeat the one dimensional opponent regardless of ranking. Besides, Spinks was essentially a limited guy himself who was capable of beating journeymen and fringe guys, but nobody all in their prime worth anything. He was just a guy who happened to be at the right place at the right time and was given the title on a silver platter against an aging, disinterested, slow champion who should have retired a few years earlier.
HomicideHenry wrote: ↑03 Apr 2018, 12:19
It's not his boxing ability per say that makes me say he'd beat Spinks, but the fact that he essentially had another discipline under his belt (kicks) and in a full contact scenario the man with multiple disciplines will almost always defeat the one dimensional opponent regardless of ranking. Besides, Spinks was essentially a limited guy himself who was capable of beating journeymen and fringe guys, but nobody all in their prime worth anything. He was just a guy who happened to be at the right place at the right time and was given the title on a silver platter against an aging, disinterested, slow champion who should have retired a few years earlier.
Were leg kicks a part of the equation I might tend to agree with you, but Lewis was a PKA fighter. So, he didn't engage in attacks to an opponents legs. So, I still give Leon the edge in a boxer vs a full contact karate guy match-up.
But, it never happened so we'll never know, right? We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Peace.
