Where do you rank Povetkin historically?

[oogiebe]

Haye is totally unproven at heavyweight. Povetkin would beat Haye on activity and work rate alone. Just like how he beat Eddie Chambers. Chambers has a better heavyweight resume than Haye and I think even Chagaev might beat Haye.

I disagree on Haye being "totally unproven" at HW. He did way better against Wlad comparing to Povetkin (and mind here, Haye was fighting better version of Wlad). Also, he still is the only guy who knocked down Chisora. Valuev is unskilled freak, but hurting badly 330 lbs 7 feet tall guy who was never hurt before shows as that Haye had the power even against super-sized HWs. Haye's HW resume is thin though comparing to Povetkin

Haye lost every round against Wlad and just came to survive whilst running away. Povetkin came to fight and Wlad was forced to hold and grapple Povetkin to defend himself against Povetkin. I know who did better (offensively at the very least). Wlad didn't have to hold Haye because Haye wasn't as much of a threat whilst Povetkin posed a far bigger threat.

Povetkin knocked out Carlos Takam, who is superior to Dereck Chisora in every department and nobody else KO'ed Takam previously or after. Even Haye himself said that Takam is Chisora x3 after sparring him before his fight against Chisora.

Povetkin is a lot more proven at heavyweight than Haye. No contest! Haye has horrible stamina and work rate compared to Povetkin. Povetkin would beat Haye on work rate alone.

I think both Eddie Chambers and Ruslan Chagaev could beat David Haye too.

You almost had me until Eddie Chambers. Haye is inconsistent, but on any night can provide an explosive performance. Perhaps not as much as yesteryear, but he is certainly capable.

[oogiebe]

Haye is totally unproven at heavyweight. Povetkin would beat Haye on activity and work rate alone. Just like how he beat Eddie Chambers. Chambers has a better heavyweight resume than Haye and I think even Chagaev might beat Haye.

I disagree on Haye being "totally unproven" at HW. He did way better against Wlad comparing to Povetkin (and mind here, Haye was fighting better version of Wlad). Also, he still is the only guy who knocked down Chisora. Valuev is unskilled freak, but hurting badly 330 lbs 7 feet tall guy who was never hurt before shows as that Haye had the power even against super-sized HWs. Haye's HW resume is thin though comparing to Povetkin

Haye lost every round against Wlad and just came to survive whilst running away. Povetkin came to fight and Wlad was forced to hold and grapple Povetkin to defend himself against Povetkin. I know who did better (offensively at the very least). Wlad didn't have to hold Haye because Haye wasn't as much of a threat whilst Povetkin posed a far bigger threat.

Povetkin knocked out Carlos Takam, who is superior to Dereck Chisora in every department and nobody else KO'ed Takam previously or after. Even Haye himself said that Takam is Chisora x3 after sparring him before his fight against Chisora.

Povetkin is a lot more proven at heavyweight than Haye. No contest! Haye has horrible stamina and work rate compared to Povetkin. Povetkin would beat Haye on work rate alone.

I think both Eddie Chambers and Ruslan Chagaev could beat David Haye too.

You almost had me until Eddie Chambers.

[Boxing Writer]

Haye is totally unproven at heavyweight. Povetkin would beat Haye on activity and work rate alone. Just like how he beat Eddie Chambers. Chambers has a better heavyweight resume than Haye and I think even Chagaev might beat Haye.

I disagree on Haye being "totally unproven" at HW. He did way better against Wlad comparing to Povetkin (and mind here, Haye was fighting better version of Wlad). Also, he still is the only guy who knocked down Chisora. Valuev is unskilled freak, but hurting badly 330 lbs 7 feet tall guy who was never hurt before shows as that Haye had the power even against super-sized HWs. Haye's HW resume is thin though comparing to Povetkin

Haye lost every round against Wlad and just came to survive whilst running away. Povetkin came to fight and Wlad was forced to hold and grapple Povetkin to defend himself against Povetkin. I know who did better (offensively at the very least). Wlad didn't have to hold Haye because Haye wasn't as much of a threat whilst Povetkin posed a far bigger threat.

Povetkin knocked out Carlos Takam, who is superior to Dereck Chisora in every department and nobody else KO'ed Takam previously or after. Even Haye himself said that Takam is Chisora x3 after sparring him before his fight against Chisora.

Povetkin is a lot more proven at heavyweight than Haye. No contest! Haye has horrible stamina and work rate compared to Povetkin. Povetkin would beat Haye on work rate alone.

I think both Eddie Chambers and Ruslan Chagaev could beat David Haye too.

Haye won 3, 2 and 1 rounds out of 12 against Wlad on judges scorecards in Germany (Wlad's backyard). Povetkin won 0, 0 and 0 rounds on judges cards against Wlad while fighting in Russia. And, again, 37 y.o. Banks-trained version of Wlad was worse than 35 y.o. Steward-trained version.

[asdfjkl]

In the Klitschko's era he's probably 4th best behind Haye (and Wlad & Vitali).

Haye vs. Povetkin was the one fight we unfortunately were never able to see.

I'd honestly rate him above Hate at heavyweight. Of the Kiltschko era he's 3rd

haha I'm no Haye lover but prime Haye would spank prime Povetkin all day long

What makes people think Haye is any good? The only thing he did was fighting bums, receiving wins he didn't deserve and on top of that losing. He even ran away scared from Briggs? He's like the Deontay Wilder from the UK.

[asdfjkl]

I disagree on Haye being "totally unproven" at HW. He did way better against Wlad comparing to Povetkin (and mind here, Haye was fighting better version of Wlad). Also, he still is the only guy who knocked down Chisora. Valuev is unskilled freak, but hurting badly 330 lbs 7 feet tall guy who was never hurt before shows as that Haye had the power even against super-sized HWs. Haye's HW resume is thin though comparing to Povetkin

Haye lost every round against Wlad and just came to survive whilst running away. Povetkin came to fight and Wlad was forced to hold and grapple Povetkin to defend himself against Povetkin. I know who did better (offensively at the very least). Wlad didn't have to hold Haye because Haye wasn't as much of a threat whilst Povetkin posed a far bigger threat.

Povetkin knocked out Carlos Takam, who is superior to Dereck Chisora in every department and nobody else KO'ed Takam previously or after. Even Haye himself said that Takam is Chisora x3 after sparring him before his fight against Chisora.

Povetkin is a lot more proven at heavyweight than Haye. No contest! Haye has horrible stamina and work rate compared to Povetkin. Povetkin would beat Haye on work rate alone.

I think both Eddie Chambers and Ruslan Chagaev could beat David Haye too.

Haye won 3, 2 and 1 rounds out of 12 against Wlad on judges scorecards in Germany (Wlad's backyard). Povetkin won 0, 0 and 0 rounds on judges cards against Wlad while fighting in Russia. And, again, 37 y.o. Banks-trained version of Wlad was worse than 35 y.o. Steward-trained version.

Haye lost all round and basically ran circles all night, that's why he also lost against Valuev despite the refs over there back then disagreed. His excuse afterwards was that his "toe hurted", I mean what would that have changed? Him running circles even more!?

[Oiky]

Povetkin will be remembered as a decent fighter

[asdfjkl]

All eras since John L. Sullivan

I think the whole heavyweight division improves all the time, so the 1920 heavyweights have no chance against the 1960s, the 60's no chance compared to 70's, all the way till right now, I think Povetkin in his prime was better as Mike Tyson in his prime. The Klitschko's are probably the only exception, those 250pounders could join the current top heavyweights. I rank Povetkin in the top 8 ish in history in his prime. I think he's still top 5 of the current division, but not for long, I expect him to be rank 10 next year and rank 15 the year after.

Out of morbid curiosity could you list your top 20 all time heavyweights?
I am intrigued

Pff, yea some other day if I got more time, what's yours?

[asdfjkl]

All eras since John L. Sullivan

I think the whole heavyweight division improves all the time, so the 1920 heavyweights have no chance against the 1960s, the 60's no chance compared to 70's, all the way till right now, I think Povetkin in his prime was better as Mike Tyson in his prime. The Klitschko's are probably the only exception, those 250pounders could join the current top heavyweights. I rank Povetkin in the top 8 ish in history in his prime. I think he's still top 5 of the current division, but not for long, I expect him to be rank 10 next year and rank 15 the year after.

That's not how I rank fighters historically. I rank them on achievements in their own era compared with other fighters in their eras. Ranking on a bigger is better basis is a bit presumptious.

Ranking Povetkin as 8th best heavyweight of all time is different, I'll give you that.

That's why I wrote: "Quite close near the top, it also matters what way you look at it, do you compare it in their own era or in the current era. Because that's a world of difference."

Prime Povetkin in the 1920 would be unreal dominating, and probably would remain that all the way till the 1980's or something.

[DrDuke]

Talking about Haye, in prime he was slicker, of course, but Povetkin is also a very skilled guy, he would have caught Haye, some shot out of a variety of combinations would have landed, as Haye wasn't flawless and had allowed such stuff not a single time.

[danconnollyeire]

Haye lost every round against Wlad and just came to survive whilst running away. Povetkin came to fight and Wlad was forced to hold and grapple Povetkin to defend himself against Povetkin. I know who did better (offensively at the very least). Wlad didn't have to hold Haye because Haye wasn't as much of a threat whilst Povetkin posed a far bigger threat.

Povetkin knocked out Carlos Takam, who is superior to Dereck Chisora in every department and nobody else KO'ed Takam previously or after. Even Haye himself said that Takam is Chisora x3 after sparring him before his fight against Chisora.

Povetkin is a lot more proven at heavyweight than Haye. No contest! Haye has horrible stamina and work rate compared to Povetkin. Povetkin would beat Haye on work rate alone.

I think both Eddie Chambers and Ruslan Chagaev could beat David Haye too.

Haye won 3, 2 and 1 rounds out of 12 against Wlad on judges scorecards in Germany (Wlad's backyard). Povetkin won 0, 0 and 0 rounds on judges cards against Wlad while fighting in Russia. And, again, 37 y.o. Banks-trained version of Wlad was worse than 35 y.o. Steward-trained version.

Haye lost all round and basically ran circles all night, that's why he also lost against Valuev despite the refs over there back then disagreed. His excuse afterwards was that his "toe hurted", I mean what would that have changed? Him running circles even more!?

Haye this, Haye that, Haye this, Haye that. Obsessive is now an understatement. Literally never heard someone talk about someone else so much

[danconnollyeire]

I'd honestly rate him above Hate at heavyweight. Of the Kiltschko era he's 3rd

haha I'm no Haye lover but prime Haye would spank prime Povetkin all day long

What makes people think Haye is any good? The only thing he did was fighting bums, receiving wins he didn't deserve and on top of that losing. He even ran away scared from Briggs? He's like the Deontay Wilder from the UK.

Here we go with the 'I caught my mum sucking off Haye' obsessive stuff again

[asdfjkl]

haha I'm no Haye lover but prime Haye would spank prime Povetkin all day long

What makes people think Haye is any good? The only thing he did was fighting bums, receiving wins he didn't deserve and on top of that losing. He even ran away scared from Briggs? He's like the Deontay Wilder from the UK.

Here we go with the 'I caught my mum sucking off Haye' obsessive stuff again

Hahahahaha, you rate an idiot above Povetkin and when I tell you the truth you're going to act like he ever had a chance to hurt me :s.
You're a funny guy, I think you can make Haye a happy men.

[jezzamundo]

The BoxRec all-time ratings currently have Povetkin as the 63rd greatest heavyweight of all time, which I think is probably about right.

The following heavyweights are ranked higher, who I would rate below Povetkin:
Tomasz Adamek
David Haye
Plus a bunch of old-timers I know virtually nothing about, many of whom I'm sure Povetkin would beat. Deciding whether to rate Povetkin or John Ruiz higher is a tough call and I rate Chris Byrd a shade above Povetkin, although Povetkin beat him, Byrd was past his best.

The following heavyweights are ranked below Povetkin, who I think should be higher than him:
Tim Witherspoon
Anthony Joshua (will overtake him soon if he hasn't already)
Tyson Fury (the Wlad win is important)

[Boxing Writer]

As for tons of clinches in Klitschko - Povetkin fight... A lot of them were caused by Povetkin. Watch the fight and you will see the moments like when Povetkin misses with his punch and grab Wlad's neck. He held Wlad's neck for 9 seconds - from 0:42 to 0:33 of round 2 - Wlad wasn't holding him at all then. Also Povetkin was holding for dear life in round 7 grabbing Wlad's waist when Wlad hurt him. I think there were only two real knockdowns in the fight - knockdown in round 2 and the second knockdown in round 7. But Wlad also threw Povetkin on the ground 5 or so times and every time he did it (with the exception of round 10), he did it when Povetkin tried to grab his waist. Most of clinches were caused by Wlad, but it wasn't one-way traffic - Povetkin also was grabbing and holding.

[armageto]

Off the top of my head, I'd probably say 50-75, near the second half of that group. His career isn't over just yet though, so he can always make a run higher. My main issues with him is the possible PED use, and who is his biggest win? I'm going to guess Chagaev, a guy who is nowhere near top 100. Byrd would be second, but he was way past it. Third was perhaps Huck, but some people thought he lost that fight and Huck isn't even a HW.

Overall his resume is good, for a weak era in the division. When he won a major belt, his title defenses were against sub-par opponents, even for today's age. Getting another belt, perhaps from Joshua, and going on a nice two year run would definitely help him out. As for now, I can't see him being in the top 50. Anybody that has him top 25, I just don't understand that honestly. Top 10, just stop watching boxing, please.

He's a good modern day HW, but over time, nobody is going to remember him, even in a weaker HW era.

[ewenhay]

The BoxRec all-time ratings currently have Povetkin as the 63rd greatest heavyweight of all time, which I think is probably about right.

The following heavyweights are ranked higher, who I would rate below Povetkin:
Tomasz Adamek
David Haye
Plus a bunch of old-timers I know virtually nothing about, many of whom I'm sure Povetkin would beat. Deciding whether to rate Povetkin or John Ruiz higher is a tough call and I rate Chris Byrd a shade above Povetkin, although Povetkin beat him, Byrd was past his best.

The following heavyweights are ranked below Povetkin, who I think should be higher than him:
Tim Witherspoon
Anthony Joshua (will overtake him soon if he hasn't already)
Tyson Fury (the Wlad win is important)

Some perspective on this debate. Thanks

[funso banjo baby]

nobody ranks historically atm apart from Fury, the other two alphabet boys need to fight each other and then see whether the linear champ in coming back.

as for Povetkin? I think he's the current world number 2...ahead of Wilder.

[Grailer]

Povetkin is definitely a big name in boxing history, despite not being a champion. I rank him higher, than Maskaev or Bruno, for example. He is somewhat of Tua or Morrison caliber. He is skilled and he is always a threat to anyone. I think, he deserves a title, I'll be glad, if he gets Joshua fight and manages to win.

I agree he is better than Maskaev and Bruno but I'd also rank him ahead of Tua and Morrison too. Tua was one-dimensional and Morrison had a weak chin. I think Povetkin (prime version) would stop Maskaev, Bruno and Morrison and would outpoint Tua. However, I'm not sure he would be able to beat somebody like a focused Tim Witherspoon.

Both in their prime Tua would had destroyed him

[Boxing Writer]

Off the top of my head, I'd probably say 50-75, near the second half of that group. His career isn't over just yet though, so he can always make a run higher. My main issues with him is the possible PED use, and who is his biggest win? I'm going to guess Chagaev, a guy who is nowhere near top 100. Byrd would be second, but he was way past it. Third was perhaps Huck, but some people thought he lost that fight and Huck isn't even a HW.

Overall his resume is good, for a weak era in the division. When he won a major belt, his title defenses were against sub-par opponents, even for today's age. Getting another belt, perhaps from Joshua, and going on a nice two year run would definitely help him out. As for now, I can't see him being in the top 50. Anybody that has him top 25, I just don't understand that honestly. Top 10, just stop watching boxing, please.

He's a good modern day HW, but over time, nobody is going to remember him, even in a weaker HW era.

Yes, if you count WBA regular belt as a major title, than Povetkin has by far the worst run of title defenses ever. Even worse than Wilder. His first defense was against 44-years-old Cedrick Boswell, who wasn't a top-10 fighter even in his prime. His second defense was against a corpse of Hasim Rahman, who was outboxed by 3-2 bum in his next fight. His third defense was against atrocious Andrzej Wawrzyk, who went life and death against 1-14 fighter and was knocked down by him and another guy with awful record. However, it has to be said that Povetkin's opponents after his loss to Wlad were much, much better than in his title run.

[Boxing Writer]

Povetkin is definitely a big name in boxing history, despite not being a champion. I rank him higher, than Maskaev or Bruno, for example. He is somewhat of Tua or Morrison caliber. He is skilled and he is always a threat to anyone. I think, he deserves a title, I'll be glad, if he gets Joshua fight and manages to win.

I agree he is better than Maskaev and Bruno but I'd also rank him ahead of Tua and Morrison too. Tua was one-dimensional and Morrison had a weak chin. I think Povetkin (prime version) would stop Maskaev, Bruno and Morrison and would outpoint Tua. However, I'm not sure he would be able to beat somebody like a focused Tim Witherspoon.

Both in their prime Tua would had destroyed him

I have to disagree here. Povetkin was better, more skilled fighter than Maskaev, Izon and Rahman. He also has better chin comparing to them. All of them were outboxing Tua until the were caught by his lethal punches in the late rounds. If Povetkin wan't reckless I can see him outboxing Tua and winning their fight comportably. If he had tried to fight him like Ibeabuchi did, he might have gotten a lot of troubles.

[Boxerbeetle]

Povetkin was absolutely clueless against Wlad, he was awful. He might be in the Top 100 heavies ever, but he’s a long long way down the list.

[Badhusker]

He's almost had two careers, firstly as an excellent amateur who regressed from doughy but very promising prospect to doughy and flattering-to-deceive contender / belt-holder. Then after the Klitschko fiasco he came back better (somehow), leaner, more powerful, better stamina. Then, again, (somehow) fairly suddenly he started regressing, less powerful, more laboured.

If that run he went on after the Klitschko fight wasn't asterisked, he'd probably be remembered better ultimately. Still anyone who has retained a #2-5 rating for as long as he has is worthy of some respect. But then his win column isn't exactly filled with talent: Takam*, old Chagaev and green Chambers are probably his best wins.

So to answer the question, I don't know for sure, but not that high. Ahead of some of the names listed (Bruno, Morrison, Ruddock etc) but nowhere near the top 20.

In other words, he went from Povetkin, to Pedvetkin, back to Povetkin?

[oogiebe]

He's almost had two careers, firstly as an excellent amateur who regressed from doughy but very promising prospect to doughy and flattering-to-deceive contender / belt-holder. Then after the Klitschko fiasco he came back better (somehow), leaner, more powerful, better stamina. Then, again, (somehow) fairly suddenly he started regressing, less powerful, more laboured.

If that run he went on after the Klitschko fight wasn't asterisked, he'd probably be remembered better ultimately. Still anyone who has retained a #2-5 rating for as long as he has is worthy of some respect. But then his win column isn't exactly filled with talent: Takam*, old Chagaev and green Chambers are probably his best wins.

So to answer the question, I don't know for sure, but not that high. Ahead of some of the names listed (Bruno, Morrison, Ruddock etc) but nowhere near the top 20.

In other words, he went from Povetkin, to Pedvetkin, back to Povetkin?

LOL! To be honest, I had to read "Pedvetkin" twice...a little slow today. BTW, I agree with Hyacinthus

[Lackeos]

Povetkin was absolutely clueless against Wlad, he was awful. He might be in the Top 100 heavies ever, but he’s a long long way down the list.

That's not so unusual. Tyson was clueless against Lewis. Tua was clueless against Lewis. Wlad was clueless against Fury. Virtually everyone was clueless against post-2006 Wlad except for Fury and Joshua. Unfortunately, sometimes even when you're a great fighter, the other guy in the ring is better.

[Boxing Writer]

Povetkin was absolutely clueless against Wlad, he was awful. He might be in the Top 100 heavies ever, but he’s a long long way down the list.

That's not so unusual. Tyson was clueless against Lewis. Tua was clueless against Lewis. Wlad was clueless against Fury. Virtually everyone was clueless against post-2006 Wlad except for Fury and Joshua. Unfortunately, sometimes even when you're a great fighter, the other guy in the ring is better.

Yes, but Tyson was at least competetive against Lewis for the first 3 minutes of their fight despite being well past his prime. Wlad won 3 or 4 rounds against Fury. Even Tua landed a couple of glancing left hooks in the first 3 rounds against Lewis. I have never seen a fighter as skilled as Povetkin (he is much more skilled than mentioned Tua) being so cluelless in the ring as he was in the fight against Wlad. He was like mesmerized by Wlad's jab and footwork.