heavyweight division the weakest its ever been?

[ajwesty13]

Put aside quickly how close the boxers seem level wise..... Is the heavyweight division currently the weakest its ever been In living memory?

[johnswan1]

No, it was weaker during Wlad's reign.

[Heretic]

Having few guys stand well above the others make it seem that way.

If the division was really that weak we would see cruisers flocking into HW and doing well there.

Also there being lack of American heavyweights will make the division look like weak one for the yanks

[ajwesty13]

Having few guys stand well above the others make it seem that way.

If the division was really that weak we would see cruisers flocking into HW and doing well there.

Also there being lack of American heavyweights will make the division look like weak one for the yanks

Im having this discussion with a friend.. I tend to think like you that there's more strength in depth than in Vlad and vitali era...

[Boxing Writer]

No, not even close. It was much, much weaker during Sullivan's, Corbett's, Burns' reigns.

[man]

Put aside quickly how close the boxers seem level wise..... Is the heavyweight division currently the weakest its ever been In living memory?

not at all. it is above average over the last
hundred years IMO.

[man]

Having few guys stand well above the others make it seem that way.

not so well and not so above ...

[computerrank]

BoxRec Ratings say for #1 rating and average rating of #8, #9 and #10:

2017: Joshua 672 - 148
2016: Joshua 312 - 148
2015: Fury 648 - 146
2014: W.Klitschko 794 - 134
2013: W.Klitschko 742 - 154
2012: W.Klitschko 696 - 171
2011: W.Klitschko 888 - 169
2010: W.Klitschko 732 - 171
2009: W.Klitschko 898 - 205
2008: W.Klitschko 868 - 206
2007: W.Klitschko 568 - 190
2006: W.Klitschko 558 - 205
2005: Brewster 341 - 181
2004: V.Klitschko 516 - 192
2003: Lewis 700 - 263
2002: Lewis 949 - 218
2001: Lewis 902 - 214
2000: Lewis 881 - 167

[punchoutsb]

It's dreadful, though I couldn't confidently say it's the weakest. It's definitely much weaker than the preceding few eras though.

[gilgamesh]

Put aside quickly how close the boxers seem level wise..... Is the heavyweight division currently the weakest its ever been In living memory?

It's been weaker just in the last 20 years.

From like 2005 through 2011 it was pretty bad.

Right now it's definitely piss poor once you get out of the Top 5, but in Wlad's era it was pretty much piss poor once you got out of the Top 1 or 2.

[gilgamesh]

It's dreadful, though I couldn't confidently say it's the weakest. It's definitely much weaker than the preceding few eras though.

Depends on what you want to call "An era" I suppose.

The Heavyweight division has been pretty weak the entire time I've been a Boxing fan honestly. There's never been more than a handful of particularly good Heavyweights active at the same time, and usually NOT EVEN a handful.

[punchoutsb]

It's dreadful, though I couldn't confidently say it's the weakest. It's definitely much weaker than the preceding few eras though.

Depends on what you want to call "An era" I suppose.

The Heavyweight division has been pretty weak the entire time I've been a Boxing fan honestly. There's never been more than a handful of particularly good Heavyweights active at the same time, and usually NOT EVEN a handful.

A handful of good heavyweights is pretty close to a golden era. A handful of decent heavyweights is likely above average. A single great heavy ups an era considerably, but the real strength comes from the contenders IMO, and that is where this current generation falls flat. The top is thin as cheap toilet paper and the contenders are hot garbage.

[ValMar]

The Holmes' era (between Ali and Tyson) has been much weaker. Holmes, in his prime, would have less than 5% chance to beat recent Wilder, Joshua and Fury.
The Wlad's era has been a bit weaker. I don't want to diminish Wlad's achievement, but in his mature phase he fought only two serious opponents - Peter and Haye.
Tyson/Lewis/Holyfield era has been much better, There is not any dilemma.

[gilgamesh]

It's dreadful, though I couldn't confidently say it's the weakest. It's definitely much weaker than the preceding few eras though.

Depends on what you want to call "An era" I suppose.

The Heavyweight division has been pretty weak the entire time I've been a Boxing fan honestly. There's never been more than a handful of particularly good Heavyweights active at the same time, and usually NOT EVEN a handful.

A handful of good heavyweights is pretty close to a golden era. A handful of decent heavyweights is likely above average. A single great heavy ups an era considerably, but the real strength comes from the contenders IMO, and that is where this current generation falls flat. The top is thin as cheap toilet paper and the contenders are hot garbage.

No argument there. The Contenders in this era are definitely crap, and there's no discernible difference between the guy ranked 8 and the guy ranked 20 honestly. Feels like an era where any of "The Other guys" could beat each other, but worse, most of them won't even fight each other.

We're finally getting some contender vs contender matches sorta with Whyte vs Browne recently and now Jarrell Miller vs Duhaupas, but these guys should be fighting each other with regularity.

[ElJefe]

Depends on what you want to call "An era" I suppose.

The Heavyweight division has been pretty weak the entire time I've been a Boxing fan honestly. There's never been more than a handful of particularly good Heavyweights active at the same time, and usually NOT EVEN a handful.

A handful of good heavyweights is pretty close to a golden era. A handful of decent heavyweights is likely above average. A single great heavy ups an era considerably, but the real strength comes from the contenders IMO, and that is where this current generation falls flat. The top is thin as cheap toilet paper and the contenders are hot garbage.

No argument there. The Contenders in this era are definitely crap, and there's no discernible difference between the guy ranked 8 and the guy ranked 20 honestly. Feels like an era where any of "The Other guys" could beat each other, but worse, most of them won't even fight each other.

We're finally getting some contender vs contender matches sorta with Whyte vs Browne recently and now Jarrell Miller vs Duhaupas, but these guys should be fighting each other with regularity.

Agree with this. If a couple of those ranked between 8 and 20 were to rack up a few wins against other contenders then they could easily establish themselves as genuinely good fighters (at least relatively), but when most of them seem content to fight only twice a year against poor opposition its impossible for any of them to build momentum.

[Boxing Writer]

The Holmes' era (between Ali and Tyson) has been much weaker. Holmes, in his prime, would have less than 5% chance to beat recent Wilder, Joshua and Fury.
The Wlad's era has been a bit weaker. I don't want to diminish Wlad's achievement, but in his mature phase he fought only two serious opponents - Peter and Haye.
Tyson/Lewis/Holyfield era has been much better, There is not any dilemma.

Povetkin and Ibragimov were good opponents too. Pulev and Chagaev weren't bad also.

Also, I strongly disagree about Larry Holmes. At 42 he easily beat 30 y.o. Ray Mercer, who gave a hell to prime Lennox Lewis 4 or 5 years later. At 45 Holmes lost by the closest margin to Oliver McCall, who stopped Lewis in 2 rounds in his previous fight.

Tyson/Lewis/Holyfield era was much better, but the level of division wasn't the same for all 15 or 17 years while it lasted. It reached its peak in 1995-1996, when Holyfield, Tyson and Bowe were slightly past their primes but still very good, Lennox Lewis was entering his own prime, and a buch of young talented guys emerged on the horizont - Ibeabuchi, Tua, Byrd, Klitschko brothers. Also there were a lot of good fighters like Moorer, Mercer, Old Foreman. In the periods from 1986 to 1990 or 1999 to 2003 HW division wasn't as strong as in mid 90s.

[ValMar]

The Holmes' era (between Ali and Tyson) has been much weaker. Holmes, in his prime, would have less than 5% chance to beat recent Wilder, Joshua and Fury.
The Wlad's era has been a bit weaker. I don't want to diminish Wlad's achievement, but in his mature phase he fought only two serious opponents - Peter and Haye.
Tyson/Lewis/Holyfield era has been much better, There is not any dilemma.

Povetkin and Ibragimov were good opponents too. Pulev and Chagaev weren't bad also.

Also, I strongly disagree about Larry Holmes. At 42 he easily beat 30 y.o. Ray Mercer, who gave a hell to prime Lennox Lewis 4 or 5 years later. At 45 Holmes lost by the closest margin to Oliver McCall, who stopped Lewis in 2 rounds in his previous fight.

Tyson/Lewis/Holyfield era was much better, but the level of division wasn't the same for all 15 or 17 years while it lasted. It reached its peak in 1995-1996, when Holyfield, Tyson and Bowe were slightly past their primes but still very good, Lennox Lewis was entering his own prime, and a buch of young talented guys emerged on the horizont - Ibeabuchi, Tua, Byrd, Klitschko brothers. Also there were a lot of good fighters like Moorer, Mercer, Old Foreman. In the periods from 1986 to 1990 or 1999 to 2003 HW division wasn't as strong as in mid 90s.

OK, you are right, I omitted Povetkin (Ibragimov, I agree , but partly). Yes, Pulev and Chagaev weren't bad, but nothing more.
Holmes had lost from Holyfield, and had been destroyed by Tyson. He was no more at his prime, but I doubt any version of him could beat any of three mentioned HWs (T/L/H).

[HeavyHitters]

Put aside quickly how close the boxers seem level wise..... Is the heavyweight division currently the weakest its ever been In living memory?

No. I would say it was the weakest ever is when Bowe, Holyfield, Lewis, Tyson, got older, and ushered in "hugging chumpion" John Ruiz, and a few other weak champions around that time, right before Wladimir and Vitali took over the division.

At least right now you have Deontay Wilder, Anthony Joshua, Joseph Parker, Luis Ortiz, and Charles Martin......



PS - Just kidding with the Charles Martin. ha ha

[Rob3_142]

I think Klitschko losing to Fury, and subsequently retiring was the end of the last era. That means the new era is really only 12-18 months old, with many of the 30-somethings (Povetkin, Ortiz, Haye etc.) Being replaced with the Joshua's, Parker's, Fury's of the world.

We won't know how good this era is until the new crop come through, which will be the best part of 5 years.

[ValMar]

I think Klitschko losing to Fury, and subsequently retiring was the end of the last era. That means the new era is really only 12-18 months old, with many of the 30-somethings (Povetkin, Ortiz, Haye etc.) Being replaced with the Joshua's, Parker's, Fury's of the world.

We won't know how good this era is until the new crop come through, which will be the best part of 5 years.

I agree...........

[actjac]

Potentially I consider this to be the strongest heavyweight era ever but only IF they continue to match up with one another.

Wilder
Joshua
Fury
Povetkin
Usyk
Ortiz
Whyte
and up-and-comers like Yoka, Joyce, Dubois etc. would be highly competitive in any other era. . . but as a whole this group are the most talented in history.

[Thomastearns]

The lack of strength in depth in the current HW division is largely down down to the lack of elite American fighters since Tyson. The US virtually owned the division for decades up til then. Even Johansson was seen as no more than the nearest of blips. There is no strength of depth in current US (HW) boxing.

If you can argue that a peak Wladimir Klitschko would mop the floor with both Wilder and Joshua then you have to either accept that standards have fallen, or that Klitschko was an all time peak. I'd go for the former.

In recent decades the US have won nothing in the larger weight divisions at the Olympics since 1988 (Mercer), though Wilder himself only won bronze in 2008. Just look at some of the names of the gold medallists since - Solis, Usyk (HW) and Lewis, W Klitschko, Povetkin, Joshua (SHW).

If Wilder could beat Joshua he might be able to stage a revival in US boxing health. He has the charisma and personality, but its going to take a lot to get kids in America to leave the temptations of gang culture to endure the rigours of the gym.

The balance of power has shifted but the vacuum left by America's decline will take some filling.

[Thomastearns]

The lack of strength in depth in the current HW division is largely down down to the lack of elite American fighters since Tyson. The US virtually owned the division for decades up til then. Even Johansson was seen as no more than the nearest of blips. There is no strength of depth in current US (HW) boxing.

If you can argue that a peak Wladimir Klitschko would mop the floor with both Wilder and Joshua then you have to either accept that standards have fallen, or that Klitschko was an all time peak. I'd go for the former.

In recent decades the US have won nothing in the larger weight divisions at the Olympics since 1988 (Mercer), Wilder himself only won bronze in 2008. Just look at some of the names of the gold medallists since - Solis, Usyk (HW) and Lewis, W Klitschko, Povetkin, Joshua (SHW).

If Wilder could beat Joshua he might be able to stage a revival in US boxing health. He has the charisma and personality, but its going to take a lot to get kids in America to leave the temptations of gang culture to endure the rigours of the gym.

The balance of power has shifted but the vacuum left by America's decline will take some filling.

[Mexi-Box]

No, it was weaker during Wlad's reign.

Wladimir just took the best HW currently to the brink while being half-retired.

[oogiebe]

Having few guys stand well above the others make it seem that way.

If the division was really that weak we would see cruisers flocking into HW and doing well there.

Also there being lack of American heavyweights will make the division look like weak one for the yanks

We will probably see two or three CW's move up. They have the size to compete.