Being big at the weight

[handsofstone]

Why is some guys who struggle at the weight are seen to be at a disadvantage going into fights, like Brook when he was at 147 or Bellew at 175? But some guys like Canelo and Hurd at 154 always seem to be tipped to be too big for the other guy and never get shouts about being weight drained as a hindrance?

Seems like certain fighters are too tight(weak) or too big(strong)

[TheGman]

Why is some guys who struggle at the weight are seen to be at a disadvantage going into fights, like Brook when he was at 147 or Bellew at 175? But some guys like Canelo and Hurd at 154 always seem to be tipped to be too big for the other guy and never get shouts about being weight drained as a hindrance?

Seems like certain fighters are too tight(weak) or too big(strong)

Mexican beef thats all i will say

[daviddee]

Why is some guys who struggle at the weight are seen to be at a disadvantage going into fights, like Brook when he was at 147 or Bellew at 175? But some guys like Canelo and Hurd at 154 always seem to be tipped to be too big for the other guy and never get shouts about being weight drained as a hindrance?

Seems like certain fighters are too tight(weak) or too big(strong)

I think it’s more to do with natural size and weight.. Canelo came up through the weights so 154 is probably around his weight range. A lot of trainers/managers and promoters think it gives their fighters an advantage where as the reality is that it’s dangerous. If someone is weighing in at 9 stone 4lbs day before the fight then on fight night they are 10 stone 10lbs that tells a story. Silly weight loss then silly weight gain causes physical issues. Whether it’s fatigue or dehydration either way it’s not good. I see it as a form of cheating all fighters should have a maximum of 8lbs they are allowed to put on following the weigh in and should be weighed 1 hour before they are due to fight. This would even up boxing and stop massive weight cutting and gaining

[Datsue]

Why is some guys who struggle at the weight are seen to be at a disadvantage going into fights, like Brook when he was at 147 or Bellew at 175? But some guys like Canelo and Hurd at 154 always seem to be tipped to be too big for the other guy and never get shouts about being weight drained as a hindrance?

Seems like certain fighters are too tight(weak) or too big(strong)

I think it's partly a timing thing mate. If your physiology lets you, you can drain like a motherfucker to get an advantage for only so long, then it turns into a double-edged sword as your body starts rebelling.

Look at Cotto at 140 (wobbling all over the place in his last couple of fights there): for years he'd simply marched through anyone & everyone without blinking & next thing you know that (endocrinal) switch had been flipped & he was flopping about like a fish versus... Name's gone. South American (Nicaraguan? Colombian?) slugger, got famously headbutted into unconsciousness vs. Kendall Holt. Had Cotto on Queer Street. Cotto moves up & never looks as vulnerable again.

So, to get back on-topic: it's a massive advantage ('cos you come in the ring the next size up to your opponent, obviously) until your renal system begins to shut down & says "NO" & then it starts to hinder you.

Hurd is obviously still at "100% weight-cutting" functioning stage ATM.

& with Canelo, what with being busted for Clenbuterol (a weight-cutting substance) & having a history of being a massive fvcking drainer, well... I think that tells one all one needs to know, frankly.

In the last case see also: JCC XXLjr at middleweight (mahoosive drainer, two separate busts for flushing agents/weight-cutting drugs).

PS: I also think Brook was just not as perfect as some others at the massive draining thing; look at the first Carson Jones fight, when he didn't "cut" right, compared to the rematch. He didn't become a better fighter between, his medical team just enable him to lose/regain the weight in a more efficient manner.

[orbtastic]

Ricardo Torres wasn't it?

[TheLeprechaun]

Hurds core is pretty slim compared to other fighters. Probably has chicken legs too.

[Datsue]

Ricardo Torres wasn't it?

That's the kiddie.

[danconnollyeire]

Why is some guys who struggle at the weight are seen to be at a disadvantage going into fights, like Brook when he was at 147 or Bellew at 175? But some guys like Canelo and Hurd at 154 always seem to be tipped to be too big for the other guy and never get shouts about being weight drained as a hindrance?

Seems like certain fighters are too tight(weak) or too big(strong)

I think it's partly a timing thing mate. If your physiology lets you, you can drain like a motherfucker to get an advantage for only so long, then it turns into a double-edged sword as your body starts rebelling.

Look at Cotto at 140 (wobbling all over the place in his last couple of fights there): for years he'd simply marched through anyone & everyone without blinking & next thing you know that (endocrinal) switch had been flipped & he was flopping about like a fish versus... Name's gone. South American (Nicaraguan? Colombian?) slugger, got famously headbutted into unconsciousness vs. Kendall Holt. Had Cotto on Queer Street. Cotto moves up & never looks as vulnerable again.

So, to get back on-topic: it's a massive advantage ('cos you come in the ring the next size up to your opponent, obviously) until your renal system begins to shut down & says "NO" & then it starts to hinder you.

Hurd is obviously still at "100% weight-cutting" functioning stage ATM.

& with Canelo, what with being busted for Clenbuterol (a weight-cutting substance) & having a history of being a massive fvcking drainer, well... I think that tells one all one needs to know, frankly.

In the last case see also: JCC XXLjr at middleweight (mahoosive drainer, two separate busts for flushing agents/weight-cutting drugs).

PS: I also think Brook was just not as perfect as some others at the massive draining thing; look at the first Carson Jones fight, when he didn't "cut" right, compared to the rematch. He didn't become a better fighter between, his medical team just enable him to lose/regain the weight in a more efficient manner.

Greta post

[jamesmcdonnell]

Hurds core is pretty slim compared to other fighters. Probably has chicken legs too.

Yeah hurd has huge shoulders and back, but a very small waist and hips, and skinny legs.

Reminds a bit of Hearns, though obviously nowhere near as lanky.

Hearns must be the ultimate example of being big at the weight, how he was ever a welterweight is mind boggling.

[jamamb]

callum smith looks huge at the weight

[handsofstone]

Cheers for the replies fellas

[josco]

In my early days of watching fights it was always same day weigh in and ever since have thought it was the fairest arrangement.

[Covfefe]

It’s about how comfortable they are cutting the weight.

Does anyone believe Canelo could now make 154 A’s comfortably as a few years ago?

[dookus]

In my early days of watching fights it was always same day weigh in and ever since have thought it was the fairest arrangement.

I'd be interested to know whether 24 hour weigh-ins have changed the incidence of death/serious injury

[Datsue]

In my early days of watching fights it was always same day weigh in and ever since have thought it was the fairest arrangement.

I'd be interested to know whether 24 hour weigh-ins have changed the incidence of death/serious injury

I would hazard—from a purely cynical & mostly unscientific viewpoint—that they've resulted in less headliners suffering catastrophic life-threatening injuries & caused a widespread uptick in the collateral brain damage absorbed by the "B sides" of promotions. So I'd guess that it's resulted in less "headline-grabbing" injuries & more long-term problems for a greater number of fighters.

I think to get to the stage we have now (where the favoured fella is almost always a division or two bigger than his opponent) you have to go back to the 1940s or 1950s, when the exploitative nature of the game was more up-front & welters fought middles etc because people just accepted that the game was heavily-slanted; nowadays we've got that (size imbalance) back, I think, it's just it's covered up better 'cos the two guys in the ring weighed the same for half an hour two days ago (notwithstanding the fact that one's now inflated to twice the other's size) so "officially" it's on the level.

But like I said, this is purely cynical on my part & I admit it would need a clinical study bigger than anything ever attempted (& also, possibly a time machine) to measure. & some reliable way of "scoring" cumulative brain damage.

[stujones]

I am bumping this up, cos I have noticed being weight drained seems to be a very "British" problem. You do not hear of as many cases of American (or other nation) boxers stating that they did not perform well because they were weight drained and when they do it seems to be a much more understandable issue. RJJ after moving up to Heavyweight, and coming back down multiple stone to Light Heavy - he didn't come back down straight away. I had some quite legitmate emails from Derrick Gainer's manager sent at that time that Roy was looking for more heavyweight fights after Ruiz and was eating very well, before not coming to any terms and so went back to Light Heavy.... the other one off course was DLH, who was also the wrong side of 35 and had been a 10 year 154 and more fighter - to comeback to 147 was always silly.

I really cannot think of any other aspects where it has been widely acknowledge that a fighter is killing himself to make weight and is not at his best. Yes, they will move up and talk about being revitalised - but it seems to be a much bigger issue here. Just in 2018 alone, both Paul Butler and the team of Kell Brook have said they should not have been fighting at the weights they were in 2017 and needed to move up. On telecasts, weight and draining seem to be discussed more here than in the states.... Is it a Psychology thing? Is it culture thing (and us not doing weight correctly). When Gatti was draining like mad to make Lightweight, I cannot recall him ever claiming it was an issue and his adversely affect his own performance.... it was more focused on the other guy who would be giving up many pounds on fight night. We though seem to focus more on the drainer and how he is at the disadvantage.

People have mentioned Cotto in his last few years at 140 - another famous drainer.... and yes there were some performance decrements towards the end of his reign, but I never heard of that being an excuse. He never seemed to say he's dead at the weight he needs to move up, US TV never seemed to say it, UK TV was saying though.

[mustlogin]

Hurd wouldn't even be competitive against top-10 in his own size. He's not a good boxer.

[whiskey]

Ricardo Torres wasn't it?

That's the kiddie.

If only we had like a website that listed Cotto's record ?

Then these slips of the mind would be easily addressed.

[PredatorHayds]

Crawford was a recent one at Lightweight.
He really struggled to get the weight off.

[Ruthless-RKO]

There's a big different in making weight and being effective and struggling to make weight and being drained.

Guys like Canelo and Hurd find/found it easy to make weight, thus can pile on a few pounds and become effective.

Guys like Brook, became to big, it was actually hard for him to hit 147 pounds, even though he still managed to hit the scales on weight, and allowed to pile a bit on after, I think it's the case that he had just drained too much.

[stujones]

There's a big different in making weight and being effective and struggling to make weight and being drained.

Guys like Canelo and Hurd find/found it easy to make weight, thus can pile on a few pounds and become effective.

Guys like Brook, became to big, it was actually hard for him to hit 147 pounds, even though he still managed to hit the scales on weight, and allowed to pile a bit on after, I think it's the case that he had just drained too much.

Yes, it seems though in the states they either know how to do the weight better or they know in advance about this issues so move up not that 1 fight too many.

Crawford is the perfect example, perhaps he moved up cos he was struggling to make lightweight - but his performances didn't seem to be impacted.

It also seems to be in the mindset of US fighters, trainers, promoters and TV execs - people BIG for the weight who are draining in the states - this seems to be seen as an advantage.... in the UK we seem to focus on it being a negative. Perhaps its the recovery post weigh in we seem to not get right.

[TheLeprechaun]

Hurd wouldn't even be competitive against top-10 in his own size. He's not a good boxer.

Everyone is draining. He is fighting people who drain to make 154.

His prime will be short but he's in it now. He is the man at 154 and to picture someone like Brook or Liam Smith beating him feels ridiculous.

[jamamb]

everyones draining but not everyones the same size, although being able to cut effectively is a legit strength

but look at a match like narvaez vs tete, both guys fighting at the same division, but big difference

and a guy like barthlemy fought at 130, yet was still big at 135 and 140 too. clearly some guys have more size to carry up

[dookus]

I am bumping this up, cos I have noticed being weight drained seems to be a very "British" problem. You do not hear of as many cases of American (or other nation) boxers stating that they did not perform well because they were weight drained and when they do it seems to be a much more understandable issue. RJJ after moving up to Heavyweight, and coming back down multiple stone to Light Heavy - he didn't come back down straight away. I had some quite legitmate emails from Derrick Gainer's manager sent at that time that Roy was looking for more heavyweight fights after Ruiz and was eating very well, before not coming to any terms and so went back to Light Heavy.... the other one off course was DLH, who was also the wrong side of 35 and had been a 10 year 154 and more fighter - to comeback to 147 was always silly.

I really cannot think of any other aspects where it has been widely acknowledge that a fighter is killing himself to make weight and is not at his best. Yes, they will move up and talk about being revitalised - but it seems to be a much bigger issue here. Just in 2018 alone, both Paul Butler and the team of Kell Brook have said they should not have been fighting at the weights they were in 2017 and needed to move up. On telecasts, weight and draining seem to be discussed more here than in the states.... Is it a Psychology thing? Is it culture thing (and us not doing weight correctly). When Gatti was draining like mad to make Lightweight, I cannot recall him ever claiming it was an issue and his adversely affect his own performance.... it was more focused on the other guy who would be giving up many pounds on fight night. We though seem to focus more on the drainer and how he is at the disadvantage.

People have mentioned Cotto in his last few years at 140 - another famous drainer.... and yes there were some performance decrements towards the end of his reign, but I never heard of that being an excuse. He never seemed to say he's dead at the weight he needs to move up, US TV never seemed to say it, UK TV was saying though.

Chad Dawson, Donald Curry, José Luis Castillo all blamed draining for their high profile defeats