The Battle Royals: It doesn't get anymore racist then this; even the commentary is obnoxious

[APerno]

- Perno, if a raciest cries out racism, does it really matter?

If we live in an idealistic world where we are all equal, aren't we all equally guilty and complicit?

When the great Broughton first opened up his amphitheater for exhibitions in 1743, one of the card's headliners was Buckhorse against a giggle of unnamed probably drawn from the crowd as a Battle Royal, so if the posters of the day used language in wide use, the term easily goes back to the 16th Century or beyond. If not racist then, then when did Battle Royals become racist?

We used to have some wild ones as kids. We weren't allowed to fight, but we could throw down. This one snooty kid moved into our working class neighborhood, so his mom kept him on a tight leash. One day we has just started one when he came running over asking if he could join us. We were in the 8-9 year old stage, and sure and he had a blast tossing us around, but then I got him thrown in his first downing, OK, no problem as he got up, but then he put his fingers to his face and pulled out the dog mess he landed in. Oh to see the look of horror as he slowly melted into bawling tears to run back to his mommy. We never saw him again and presumably they moved to a more gentile neighborhood.

Here's the tale of baseball HOFer Ty Cobb often cited as racist. He started the most recorded fights on the field than anyone in history, were they racist? Off field he probably had as many, but most weren't recorded. On the field he was fighting fellow whites, and off the field he was fighting, say 98% whites and none called him out for his racism, however the few fights he had with blacks, the eastern press made it a racial matter. Why was that? Because he was a southerner who believed in white supremacy?

He played an exhibition against a black team in Cuba as a player with no incidences, and then refused to play any more against black players in spite of dozens of barnstorming MLB teams making good money against barnstorming black teams as they packed in the fans everywhere they went. The most battle prone black player was Oscar Charleston, built like the human stump Hack Wilson of the Cubs, but called the black TY Cobb by his people because his fisticuffs reminded them of Cobb. Was that racist of them?

In 1930, Cobb throw out the ceremonial first pitch to dedicate the new park built for the Detroit black league, so do you really think the black league would have invited Cobb to such a high profile affair as their guest of honor if he was really racist?

The whole concept of racism is completely modern, so just when did this racism thing begin and when is it going to end and whats the official name of the committee that started it and will stop it?

The Battle Royals were not racially driven, OK, interesting. (would you accept economically exploitive?)

A hypothetical: Would 1897 Alabama stage a 'white' battle royal? - I would guess/argue they wouldn't/didn't. If that is the case then I would call it racist. (But I am not sure if all Battle Royals at that time, in that location, were only Black, maybe not.)

"The whole concept of racism is completely modern" -- This point I cannot begin to wrap my head around; take even a cursory look at Roman history. Maybe I am completely misunderstanding what you are saying here.

I feel you are playing on the paradox that if you hate the hater, you are a hater. Call someone a racist, then you are a racist. OK, I get it.

I will have to be straight up with you, I feel you are playing a cheap, overused conservative distraction tactic, common to conservative talk radio and Fox News. But it is after all still a semi-free country, so speak out.

I won't insert a "STOP" emoji here.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- OK then, GREENLIGHT!

Look, you didn't know about the Vegas HOF, nor the history of battle royals, and I don't listen to talk radio drivel, but I do study history via traditional books including boxing supplemented with the internet, so I do know that genocide and racism are fairly modern terms used to excoriate peoples long dead who certainly can't defend themselves.

All while slavery and it's cousin nomenclature in kind, human/drug smuggling and forced prostitution and abuse of children and all the rest of modern exploitation of people and the environment are at an all time high.

Toss in never ending wars, nuclear war still being threatened, global warming and BIG BROTHER, well, ya look a little weak and timid tackling your own eras.

But maybe you're the local Albert Schweitzer doing the best you can, who can say on a boxing board?

So this is getting a little longwinded for my iPhone, so adios for now.

[Caractacus]

There was a recnt biography that came about about Ty Cobb.
It said that the racist label wasn't placed upon him until sometime later
when some writer was ghost writing his autobiography.
They had some kind of a falling out and the writer made a campaign of besmearching him.
Ty Cobb actually came from a well known family of Abolishenist in Georgia
and was very un-racisist himself.

[Caractacus]

I read somewhere that there was a big heavily promoted Battle Royal that took place at the Blackfriar's Club in East End of London England circa 1900.(promoted by Bella Burge)that involved about a dozen men.
It was won by an American Battle Royal veteran who stood back when the action started then ducked and parried anyone
who threw a punch at him then when the last few where still in the ring but exhausted he then knocked them out.

[APerno]

That is great one wouldn't think that Battle Royals had its own experienced fighters let alone veteran strategies..

[Caractacus]

That is great one wouldn't think that Battle Royals had its own experienced fighters let alone veteran strategies..

Are you referring to the one held at the Blackfriars Club in 1900 ?
I think the American involved was a ringer placed there by his manager.
Middleweight Frank Craig aka The Harlem Cofee Cooler"

[APerno]

That is great one wouldn't think that Battle Royals had its own experienced fighters let alone veteran strategies..

Are you referring to the one held at the Blackfriars Club in 1900 ?
I think the American involved was a ringer placed there by his manager.
Middleweight Frank Craig aka The Harlem Cofee Cooler"

Frank Craig The Harlem Coffee Cooler - how do you come up with wonderful fighters.

http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/39932

[Caractacus]

I just read that in a book
.BTW I don't think it was Frank Craig who was the American in that Battle Royal.
( because he was a professional fighter)
It was his idea tho to stage it and no doubt got a cut if not most of the prize money from the Ringer who participated in it.

[Caractacus]

a Battle Royal preceeded the Battling Siki vrs Young Norfolk fight at the Southern Athletic Cluc
in Memphis Tenessee in January 1924.

[Caractacus]

check out this link to a rare photograph of a Battle Royal (in progress) taken in 1919.

https://google.com/books?id=VIweAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA15&dq

[Caractacus]

As far as how recent Battle Royals had been on Boxing cards.
I came across a newspaper reference dated 6 and 20.February 1948
from the St. Petersburg Times in Florida.
at Land Field.
"A battle royal involving five hood Negroes will open the card at 8:30 o'clock".
(Jersey Joe Walcott was the referee for the main-event boxing match
against Negro light-weights Roosevelt Flagg vrs David Seebrook).

After 1948 the term " Batle Royals" then became associated with Wrestlers on the mat it appears.