He probably doesn't earn that kind of money against any other active heavyweight. But that doesn't mean it is a fair offer for this fight. It's a proper unification fight between an American heavyweight and a British heavyweight. It's a huge fight. Using previous earnings alone to calculate a fighter's purse for a unique event such as this is a flawed formula.
You don't earn based on importance, you earn based on your ability to sell. There's nothing flawed about approaching a business deal like a business deal.
It's more complex than you think it is. There are more factors to consider than a + b = c
Question: Should Joshua make his highest payday for fighting Wilder?
If the answer to that is yes, there probably isn't a way to pay Wilder more than $12.5m.
If the fight makes $60m total (the high end of the realistic estimates), once you take the TV and promoter cuts away, you're left with about $35m to pay the fighters.
$12.5m to Wilder (his previous highest payday X5) leaves $22.5m for Joshua, which is only just above what he earned for the Klitschko fight. Paying Wilder any more, means Joshua might have to take a pay cut to make the biggest fight of his career... How is that right?
Nightmare Roy wrote: ↑12 Apr 2018, 16:00
He's a bigger draw than Parker and holds the most prestigious of the belts, he should get a bigger percentage than Parker did IMO.
Is he? If so, by how much?
Are you aware of the paydays Parker was receiving prior to facing Joshua, in comparison to Wilder's?
wilders belt being the wbc adds extra money? beyond the fact that he has a belt?
the casual fans who account for the biggest numbers prob dont give a shit beyond 'its for all the undisputed!'
and knowledgable fans know the wbc is alphabet soup like the others. what exactly is the measure to determine which belt is the most prestigious, to whom, and how much extra money that translates to?
Deontay Wilder probably hasn't earned $12.5m throughout the course of his entire career!
He only raked in a grand total of $11.1m from all eight world title fights he's competed in!
He only earned $900K when he defended his world title against Gerald Washington.
His average payday is less than $1.4m per fight and Eddie Hearn's offer is actually NINE times that amount, yet many imbeciles are suggesting that this sum is fûckîng "derisory"!
for some reason so many people are working off the assumption that there will be a 100m pot for them to split, so 12.5 is only like 10 percent. you have knowledgable, good posters buying into this, and hence saying that deontay needs to be started at 25m MINIMUM! insane man, insane!
12.5m is not a terrible offer and id bet given that it was a first offer it will probably go up
Nightmare Roy wrote: ↑12 Apr 2018, 16:00
He's a bigger draw than Parker and holds the most prestigious of the belts, he should get a bigger percentage than Parker did IMO.
Is he? If so, by how much?
Are you aware of the paydays Parker was receiving prior to facing Joshua, in comparison to Wilder's?
You'll surely be surprised how similar they are.
It will do more PPV's in the uk and I imagine it will do pretty well in the states too. Parker is big in NZ sure but only 56 people live there
Nightmare Roy wrote: ↑12 Apr 2018, 16:00
He's a bigger draw than Parker and holds the most prestigious of the belts, he should get a bigger percentage than Parker did IMO.
Is he? If so, by how much?
Are you aware of the paydays Parker was receiving prior to facing Joshua, in comparison to Wilder's?
You'll surely be surprised how similar they are.
It will do more PPV's in the uk and I imagine it will do pretty well in the states too. Parker is big in NZ sure but only 56 people live there
More people in the UK know Parker than Wilder. He's engaged in two world title fights on UK soil.
Wilder hasn't competed in the UK for about five years and hardly any casuals would have been willing to stay up through the night until 5am to see Deontay stopping poor quality, unranked, title challengers.
Deontay isn't even a big name in the US.
Last edited by Enlightened-One on 12 Apr 2018, 20:36, edited 1 time in total.
his career biggest purse was 2.1m wasnt it? so like 6x
i guess even if you count the povetkin money its still like 3x
it's not insulting at all, some ppl just have a totally inflated sense of how much money there will be to split. gtfo out of here with this 25m minimum offer crap.
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑12 Apr 2018, 20:13
Is he? If so, by how much?
Are you aware of the paydays Parker was receiving prior to facing Joshua, in comparison to Wilder's?
You'll surely be surprised how similar they are.
It will do more PPV's in the uk and I imagine it will do pretty well in the states too. Parker is big in NZ sure but only 56 people live there
More people in the UK know Parker than Wilder. He's engaged in two world title fights on UK soil.
Wilder hasn't competed in the UK for about five years and hardly any casuals would have been willing to stay up through the night until 5am to see Deontay stopping poor quality, unranked, title challengers.
Deontay isn't even a big name in the US.
Don’t think many watched his fight with Fury aired on YouTube at a cost of £14.99.
Don’t think it really matters how many know Parker / Wilder in the U.K. now
If the fight is made the media hype train will go into overdrive to reach out to those that live under a rock and don’t know of the importance of Wilder against AJ.
One thing is for sure, Deyontay Wilder against AJ is a dream for any TV company to build up and sell on PPV
I reckon Wilder AJ will do more ppv than AJ Parker
It really doesn't matter what the offer is at this point if Joshua and Hearn have their mind made up about who they are fighting next.
Joshua already said he doubted if Wilder or Povetkin are serious about wanting to fight, but Miller is. That need should either be hilarious or sickening to fans. If you are an idiot, you probably believe the BS. Miller it is then. Keep the guys that are more of a threat on ice.
“Deontay Wilder's team will make a counter offer to Anthony Joshua within the next 48 hours and have raised doubts about the fight if the unified champion does not accept the revised deal.”
punchoutsb wrote: ↑12 Apr 2018, 10:28
I I can't see any way this fight makes close to 80 million. 60 sounds about right. 12.5 is a really good offer unless the fight sells a lot more than 60...which again I don't see happening.
Really, if Wilder accepts a 35% split (an amount that isn't unrealistic) instead of the $12.5m flat fee being offered now, he could actually end up taking home LESS money after TV networks and promoters etc have taken their cut.
$12.5m is a very good offer for a guy who can't draw flies to shít.
True, but remember that Hearn's flat fee offer is based on HIS estimation of the fight bringing in $40 million. If promoted right, and in September, going much higher than that is not out of the realm of possibility. If the 40 mil is correct, Wilder will get about 30%. If he gets a flat fee, there is no incentive whatsoever for him to want to promote the fight.
Remember that Floyd's $40 million flat offer to Pacquiao sounded good too, and was far and above any amount he earned before based on his earnings. Flat fee offers, especially in this case are BS.
punchoutsb wrote: ↑12 Apr 2018, 10:28
I I can't see any way this fight makes close to 80 million. 60 sounds about right. 12.5 is a really good offer unless the fight sells a lot more than 60...which again I don't see happening.
Really, if Wilder accepts a 35% split (an amount that isn't unrealistic) instead of the $12.5m flat fee being offered now, he could actually end up taking home LESS money after TV networks and promoters etc have taken their cut.
$12.5m is a very good offer for a guy who can't draw flies to shít.
True, but remember that Hearn's flat fee offer is based on HIS estimation of the fight bringing in $40 million. If promoted right, and in September, going much higher than that is not out of the realm of possibility. If the 40 mil is correct, Wilder will get about 30%. If he gets a flat fee, there is no incentive whatsoever for him to want to promote the fight.
Remember that Floyd's $40 million flat offer to Pacquiao sounded good too, and was far and above any amount he earned before based on his earnings. Flat fee offers, especially in this case are BS.
I agree with what you're saying. I'm just making the point that as a first offer (which would nearly always be refused under any circumstances) it's not nearly as bad as some are claiming it is.
Eddie Hearn has confirmed that the most accurate conservative estimate for the revenue generated by a potential Joshua-Wilder bout would likely be in the region of £30 ($43m), which is nowhere near the figures being quoted by the likes of Lou DiBella. This figure is close to the estimates of both The RING and also the British media.
He reiterated AJ’s words when he said that Anthony Joshua would be willing to accept a 50-50 split and sign the contract immediately if Team Wilder promote the event and also guarantee that it’ll generate $100m.
punchoutsb wrote: ↑12 Apr 2018, 10:28
I I can't see any way this fight makes close to 80 million. 60 sounds about right. 12.5 is a really good offer unless the fight sells a lot more than 60...which again I don't see happening.
Really, if Wilder accepts a 35% split (an amount that isn't unrealistic) instead of the $12.5m flat fee being offered now, he could actually end up taking home LESS money after TV networks and promoters etc have taken their cut.
$12.5m is a very good offer for a guy who can't draw flies to shít.
True, but remember that Hearn's flat fee offer is based on HIS estimation of the fight bringing in $40 million. If promoted right, and in September, going much higher than that is not out of the realm of possibility. If the 40 mil is correct, Wilder will get about 30%. If he gets a flat fee, there is no incentive whatsoever for him to want to promote the fight.
Remember that Floyd's $40 million flat offer to Pacquiao sounded good too, and was far and above any amount he earned before based on his earnings. Flat fee offers, especially in this case are BS.
Pavquiao, however, has earned $25m for the fight when Floyd offered him $40m flat free. So, he already had purse that was equal 62.5% of what Floyd offered to him. Wilder's highest purse was $2.1m which equals 16.8% of AJ's offer. Huge diefference here.
Saying that, I think that flat free offer is a wrong idea for this fight. Wilder and his team will lose interest in promoting the fight if the money that they will get won't depend on promotion. If Hearn offers them $10m guaranteed and additional % from the revenue, it might be actually better for both Wilder and AJ.
I can understand the logic for those that support a percentage proposal, but most fights also include a guaranteed minimum purse. I’d be surprised if Team Wilder doesn’t request one also.
The American has already received an offer that is 39% more than Joseph Parker’s purse for the AJ fight. Wilder’s average purse per bout is less than $1.4m, but yet his people think that an offer for $12.5m is somehow “insulting”?
The problem I currently have relates to those that believe that Wilder deserves to earn a 40% split of the purse pot to face Anthony Joshua, but the very same set of people would probably also claim that Billy Joe Saunders should take the GGG bout for a much smaller percentage, when the circumstances are almost identical.
From a commercial and mainstream casual fight fan perspective, Deontay Wilder isn’t considered a big name and doesn’t generate much revenue, so I don’t anticipate the bout achieving the sort of numbers being estimated by the American’s team.
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑16 Apr 2018, 05:26
Eddie Hearn has confirmed that the most accurate conservative estimate for the revenue generated by a potential Joshua-Wilder bout would likely be in the region of £30 ($43m), which is nowhere near the figures being quoted by the likes of Lou DiBella. This figure is close to the estimates of both The RING and also the British media.
He reiterated AJ’s words when he said that Anthony Joshua would be willing to accept a 50-50 split and sign the contract immediately if Team Wilder promote the event and also guarantee that it’ll generate $100m.
the idea that these guys would have even close to 100 million is crazy, i cant believe some ppl here believe it
ppl here have actually suggested based on that crazy view that the opening offer to wilder should be 25 million!!!! f@cking insane man!
If Hearn increases the flat fee to $20m and Wilder doesn't accept it then I'd say the fault lies with the American. AJ deserves the lion's share of the proceeds because he's earned that. He IS the A-side and Wilder needs to realize that.
Now if Wilder takes the 20m and hops across the pond and defeats AJ, then the money for the rematch will be dispersed a lot differently,
asdfjkl wrote: ↑11 Apr 2018, 12:45
Especially if you keep in mind that the WBC is absolutely not an important belt any more and Wilder continually breaks all kind of WBC rules, or get special treatments from the WBC, you just know that AJ must be nuts to offer him a high payday.
As I said from the start, if Wilder doesn't accept this, it's even more obvious that Wilder doesn't want this fight.
Let's check the WBC rules: "3.1 Timing of Defenses.
The WBC’s policy is to offer opportunities to boxers to compete for
its titles, and thus the WBC seeks to prevent titles from being frozen due to inactivity by
champions. Therefore, a WBC champion should strive to defend the title in mandatory or
voluntary defenses at least three (3) times a year, unless a written exception or extension is
granted by the WBC in its sole discretion. Therefore, a WBC champion should strive to
defend his title at least every one hundred twenty (120) days unless otherwise permitted by
the WBC in its sole discretion. Upon winning a title, a WBC champion must defend the
title within 90 to 120 days or as otherwise ordered by the WBC, unless otherwise ordered or
permitted by the WBC in its sole discretion"
Well, this doesn't seem to apply for Wilder, he got the belts for well over 3 years now and only had 7 fights, an average of barely 2 a year.
"Qualified Challengers:
Champions shall defend their titles, either in a voluntary or
mandatory defense, against a challenger (each, a “Qualified Challenger”) in one of the
following categories:
(a) any of the top ten (10) rated contenders; or
(b) with the approval of or ratification by a majority of the Board of Governors,
i. any boxer rated 11 to 15;
ii. a champion or a highly-rated boxer of another weight division;
iii. another WBC champion, such as a WBC Diamond or Silver Champion,
Champion Emeritus, or Champion in Recess;
iv. a former world champion or other elite challenger;
v. a champion of another boxing organization recognized by the WBC; or
(c) under special circumstances and with the approval of or ratification by two-third
(2/3rd) of the Board of Governors, a contender not otherwise listed in one or more of
the above categories."
How many top 10 contenders has Wilder fought? Only Stiverne right?
"3.5 Mandatory Defense Obligations.
All WBC champions shall make at least one (1)
mandatory defense per year, unless an exception is granted by the WBC in its sole
discretion. A champion may be required to make more than one mandatory defense per
year, if the WBC has designated more than one mandatory challenger for any reason. No
bout shall be considered a mandatory defense unless expressly approved as mandatory by
the WBC, and made exclusively against an official mandatory challenger designated by the
WBC. A challenger who wins the title inherits the mandatory defense obligations of the
champion he defeated, unless the WBC in its sole discretion otherwise directs."
Except for Stiverne, who absolutely didn't earn it (he would most likely have lost against everyone in the entire top 40 at the moment he became mandatory), who has Wilder had a mandatory fight against in the past 3 years?
Even right now, Stiverne probably only got a chance against Lenroy Thomas (who recently drawed against David Allen, the boxrec rank 12 of the UK).
Long story short, it's ridiculous that Wilder still has this price, and I really don't think that all this ruining of the sport should be rewarded by a 10M+ payday.
caldo2025 wrote: ↑16 Apr 2018, 07:46
If Hearn increases the flat fee to $20m and Wilder doesn't accept it then I'd say the fault lies with the American...
Now if Wilder takes the 20m and hops across the pond and defeats AJ, then the money for the rematch will be dispersed a lot differently,
I don’t believe that Anthony Joshua has ever earned more than $20m (or if he has, it wouldn't be much more), so why do you feel that Wilder deserves to receive that sort of amount, considering the American’s average payday is less than $1.4m?
You don't earn based on importance, you earn based on your ability to sell. There's nothing flawed about approaching a business deal like a business deal.
It's more complex than you think it is. There are more factors to consider than a + b = c
No I'm afraid it's much more simple than you think. Successful business ventures are not built they way you seem to think they are. The fight in much more important than Mayweather vs McGregor was so why not pay both guys hundreds of millions? Because that wouldn't be smart business.
The last 2 megafights featuring Floyd Mayweather (Pacquiao/McGregor) were both damp squibs which did little to promote the sport - in fact did more damage than good. Now after the collapse of Canelo v GGG 2 boxing needs Joshua v Wilder more than ever. If handled and promoted well it could help everyone trying to earn a living from the sport.
Full credit to Deontay Wilder for trying to raise his profile in the sport, but obviously there's still a lot of work to be done. For Joshua the next step is obviously America. He said he wanted to be a billionaire so let's hope he still has the hunger. It's got to be hard when you're already a multimillionaire!
I'd like to see this as the megafight of 2019, I don't mind waiting, both men are comparatively young so why the rush? The Mayweather / McGregor promotion broke new ground and worked well despite the lacklustre fight. Can Joshua and especially Wilder work together in some similar fashion?
