SenorPipino wrote: ↑18 Apr 2018, 15:45
Fighters didn't usually get close enough to the dancing Ali during the 60s to necessitate any holding or leaning.
BULLCRAP!!! .... Ali held George Chuvalo all night long in the mid-60's - with acquiescence from the paid off referee... He also took a lot of body shots in that fight that certainly didn’t do his left kidney any good… Part of the reason Ali tailed off so early in his career was he had a poor defense and took too much punishment...
Great defenders like Mayweather, Holmes, the Klitschkos, Jofre, and Jack Johnson fought into their 40’s with no ill effects whatever.. Ali never closed the holes in his game so he got punished very badly.
SenorPipino wrote: ↑18 Apr 2018, 15:45
Fighters didn't usually get close enough to the dancing Ali during the 60s to necessitate any holding or leaning.
BULLCRAP!!! .... Ali held George Chuvalo all night long in the mid-60's - with acquiescence from the paid off referee... He also took a lot of body shots in that fight that certainly didn’t do his left kidney any good… Part of the reason Ali tailed off so early in his career was he had a poor defense and took too much punishment...
Great defenders like Mayweather, Holmes, the Klitschkos, Jofre, and Jack Johnson, fought into their 40’s with no ill effects whatever.. Ali never closed the holes in his game so he got punished very badly.
Ali held Chuvalo in round one and dared him to hit him in the body, which Chuvalo obliged. He didn't go ahead and continue that strategy.
If you throw out the Uriah Grant fight in 2000, Tommy Hearns becomes one of those paradoxical fighters who's greatness is best displayed by his defeats. Only four loses over a long career, two to his personal nemesis Iran Barkley*** and then one each to Leonard and Hagler. That's a pretty good boxing pedigree.
*** Boy if any match-up can best argue that 'styles make fights' Hearns-Barkley is the quintessential case. Everyone could beat Barkley except Hearns, who in turn could beat almost everyone who could beat Barkley.
APerno wrote: ↑18 Apr 2018, 16:34
If you throw out the Uriah Grant fight in 2000, Tommy Hearns becomes one of those paradoxical fighters who's greatness is best displayed by his defeats. Only four loses over a long career, two to his personal nemesis Iran Barkley*** and then one each to Leonard and Hagler. That's a pretty good boxing pedigree.
*** Boy if any match-up can best argue that 'styles make fights' Hearns-Barkley is the quintessential case. Everyone could beat Barkley except Hearns, who in turn could beat almost everyone who could beat Barkley.
Great point. Those fights were literally wars. I thought Hearns would walk through Barkley, boy was I wrong!
SenorPipino wrote: ↑18 Apr 2018, 15:45
Fighters didn't usually get close enough to the dancing Ali during the 60s to necessitate any holding or leaning.
BULLCRAP!!! .... Ali held George Chuvalo all night long in the mid-60's - with acquiescence from the paid off referee... He also took a lot of body shots in that fight that certainly didn’t do his left kidney any good… Part of the reason Ali tailed off so early in his career was he had a poor defense and took too much punishment...
Great defenders like Mayweather, Holmes, the Klitschkos, Jofre, and Jack Johnson, fought into their 40’s with no ill effects whatever.. Ali never closed the holes in his game so he got punished very badly.
Ali held Chuvalo in round one and dared him to hit him in the body, which Chuvalo obliged. He didn't go ahead and continue that strategy.
That's not true at all... Ali got hit in the body all night.. and grabbed all night...
The referee is supposed to tell the fouler to let go... If he doesn't let go he's supposed to stop the action and take a point for holding... That's the only way you get a non-interrupted fight with continuous action... Otherwise the referee just continues to break the fighters all night ... and the holder (fouler, since Queensberry Rules don't allow holding) gets to reset from the outside all night.. That's not a fair way to conduct a fight and it penalizes the better infighter.
BULLCRAP!!! .... Ali held George Chuvalo all night long in the mid-60's - with acquiescence from the paid off referee... He also took a lot of body shots in that fight that certainly didn’t do his left kidney any good… Part of the reason Ali tailed off so early in his career was he had a poor defense and took too much punishment...
Great defenders like Mayweather, Holmes, the Klitschkos, Jofre, and Jack Johnson, fought into their 40’s with no ill effects whatever.. Ali never closed the holes in his game so he got punished very badly.
Ali held Chuvalo in round one and dared him to hit him in the body, which Chuvalo obliged. He didn't go ahead and continue that strategy.
That's not true at all... Ali got hit in the body all night.. and grabbed all night...
The referee is supposed to tell the fouler to let go... If he doesn't let go he's supposed to stop the action and take a point for holding... That's the only way you get a non-interrupted fight with continuous action... Otherwise the referee just continues to break the fighters all night ... and the holder (fouler, since Queensberry Rules don't allow holding) gets to reset from the outside all night.. That's not a fair way to conduct a fight and it penalizes the better infighter.
Thus the referee is at fault for not penalizing. End of story.
APerno wrote: ↑18 Apr 2018, 16:34
If you throw out the Uriah Grant fight in 2000, Tommy Hearns becomes one of those paradoxical fighters who's greatness is best displayed by his defeats. Only four loses over a long career, two to his personal nemesis Iran Barkley*** and then one each to Leonard and Hagler. That's a pretty good boxing pedigree.
*** Boy if any match-up can best argue that 'styles make fights' Hearns-Barkley is the quintessential case. Everyone could beat Barkley except Hearns, who in turn could beat almost everyone who could beat Barkley.
Look what James Toney did for Iran Barkley... Hearns didn't fight Toney... Hearns didn't fight Michael Nunn... Hearns didn't fight Mike McCallum... There's a lot of fighters Hearns didn't fight who would have knocked his fragile ass out cold.
APerno wrote: ↑18 Apr 2018, 16:34
If you throw out the Uriah Grant fight in 2000, Tommy Hearns becomes one of those paradoxical fighters who's greatness is best displayed by his defeats. Only four loses over a long career, two to his personal nemesis Iran Barkley*** and then one each to Leonard and Hagler. That's a pretty good boxing pedigree.
*** Boy if any match-up can best argue that 'styles make fights' Hearns-Barkley is the quintessential case. Everyone could beat Barkley except Hearns, who in turn could beat almost everyone who could beat Barkley.
Look what James Toney did for Iran Barkley... Hearns didn't fight Toney... Hearns didn't fight Michael Nunn... Hearns didn't fight Mike McCallum... There's a lot of fighters Hearns didn't fight who would have knocked his fragile ass out cold.
Disagree. Toney didn't fight Hagler, Nunn didn't fight Hagler....etc. etc. etc. (nor Leanard_)...this tit for tat is useless.
Hagler retired when he was 32... No wonder he didn't fight anyone super good who was a natural Middleweight...
Hagler wasn't around long enough to face Toney, Nunn, or McCallum... He was offered Nunn and McCallum when he couldn't get the Leonard rematch... He didn't want to fight them... They were damned great Middleweights.
Leonard abandoned the Middleweight Title rather than fight Nunn or McCallum... I can certainly see why the weak chinned Hearns didn't want to fight them... Leonard got another Title (168) against the then unknown Lalonde (boiling him down from 175) and was allowed to defend it at 160 against whomever he wanted... Clever businessman I have to say.
Kalan wrote: ↑18 Apr 2018, 17:52
Hagler retired when he was 32... No wonder he didn't fight anyone super good who was a natural Middleweight...
Hagler wasn't around long enough to face Toney, Nunn, or McCallum... He was offered Nunn and McCallum when he couldn't get the Leonard rematch... He didn't want to fight them... They were damned great Middleweights.
Leonard abandoned the Middleweight Title rather than fight Nunn or McCallum... I can certainly see why the weak chinned Hearns didn't want to fight them... Leonard got another Title (168) against the then unknown Lalonde (boiling him down from 175) and was allowed to defend it at 160 against whomever he wanted... Clever businessman I have to say.