hagler/hearns/leonard/duran: who was truly the best?

[Elton John]

Good bye Alp you poor sap.

[Collins2000]

Good bye Alp you poor sap.

I think you bored him to death, Reggie.

[Elton John]

Good bye Alp you poor sap.

I think you bored him to death, Reggie.

Well he bored me with all his lame shit ie; "Norris never beat anyone close to what Leonard beat". "You're crazy to think Norris would beat prime Ray". "WOW even Norris doesn't think he could blah blah..."

Does he think I actually give a shit? Terry whipped Ray, beat on him, humbled him, retired him for another six years and he's calling me crazy for calling Norris the better man.

I asked him which of his two performances would cause Terry to doubt himself and Alp the liar pulled out of this conversation because he has no reference to point to.... because Leonard has all of two fights at 154 pounds.

[Elton John]

As for Leonard being able to beat Norris when he was in his prime-You don't think so? Wow. It's doubtful that Terry Norris himself believes that.

Get a brain!

[kidbazooka1]

P4P Duran takes it.

[chiricahua]

I think leonard was the best but p4p i have to give my vote to duran.
Hagler was someone who could beat anyone in his prime.

[elmersalsa]

In Order pound for pound:
1. Roberto Duran (lightweight)
2. Sugar Ray Leonard (welterweight)
3. Marvin Hagler (middleweight)
4. Thomas Hearns (welterweight)

Styles make fights. Duran beat Leonard up in the first fight on the inside. Leonard boxed his ears off at his game in the other two. Thomas Hearns was beating Leonard but lacked the physical strength over the long haul to hold on to it. In a twelve round fight history would have been different in their first fight. Ray also did not want to grant rematches when he won. When he thought Hearns had declined enough to give him a rematch he got his butt kicked again. He lost that second fight. He waited for Hagler to age and then agreed to fight. If you look at Hagler' earlier fights and how much quicker he was with hands and feet as opposed to the end of his career, Leonard would have lost to this earlier version of Hagler. The punch Thomas Hearns landed on Roberto Duran to knock him out may have knocked out anyone it hit. That ranks up there with the Bob Foster ko of Dick Tiger and Mike Quarry. However Hearns was able to bully Duran at will at that weight. I was a huge Hagler fan but in review he did freeze up and was very cautious in major fights IE: Leonard & Duran super fights. Of course the Hearns fight was different because of the style of fight they fought. All in all these guys are some of the greatest fighters of all time with Duran ranking number 4 of my greatest fighters of all time and number one as lightweight.

I agree with you 100%.

[DrDuke]

Duran, considering his lightweight resume, a victory over Leonard, what was too much for Hagler and Hearns. Furthermore, Duran had a very close fight against Hagler. And what's interesting with Hearns, he was outboxing Leonard, but got caught. And maybe if he had a better chin, a fight against Hagler could have gone in the other way. But it is what it is. So, I pick Duran, closing eyes on him being destroyed by Hearns. Anyway the fights against all those three were in the upper category for Duran and in addition to this he faced Hearns, when he was undoubtedly past prime.

[elmersalsa]

Leonard KNEW that he was not in proper prime to fight the monsters in Hagler and Hearns in 1982 and 1984 respectively. He fought them because he saw they were slipping their fighting qualities.

I imagine Hagler vs Leonard in 1982 and Hearns vs Leonard in 1984 at 154lbs...What a massacre!!! different stories.

Do you seriously believe that Leonard would have been 'massacred' had the above fights occurred?

Why do you think that Tommy Hearns could have massacred him in 1984, yet he couldn't do it in 1981?

What could Hagler have done to massacre a still peak Leonard in 1982, a man blessed with brilliant speed, footwork & a titanium chin (at that time) to boot?

It's not as if Leonard was old or anything, he would still in his prime (a considerable prime btw).

OK, I can accept that he might have lost, but not massacred.

Leonard was too good a fighter to be massacred by anybody in 1982 or 1984.

It's obvious Leonard was having trouble with Kevin Howard as he struggled to put away the much smaller man. Kevin was large on the bottom small on top which is why he was chosen as an opponent. I felt leonard could have done better than taking a fight with some owning 4 losses, all of them recent.

having said that, I find it difficult to believe that Leonard would survive Tommy whom I saw the following month considering the way he was dropped by Kevin. Leonard just has trouble with live opposition, even if it's someone like Kevin Howard.

Thomas was at his peak no doubt about that and his form had filled out very impressively. Much more impressive as he now filled out his frame and very fit and muscular. Not that sick, skeletal version we all saw from September 1981. Indeed, Tommy was shaking off the inactivity over the last two years because of the recurring hand problems but once the rust came off, look out!

Indeed, it was look out Duran, the man with the chin of stone. Look out Fred Hutchins. Look out James Shuler, the new #1 middleweight contender. Ray was smart for waiting until after the results of Hearns-Kinchen when it was obvious to all that Tommy was as described in that bout "A four round fighter" by Al Bernstein.

And a fight with Hagler at this point (as late as 1985) was out of the question. The Hagler who levelled Tommy, facing Leonard is a frightening thought to me as I'm sure it was to everyone else (I don't recall any leonard fans crying for one) and leonard himself knew it was legalized murder.

Had this fight taken place, why Leonard wouldn't have a head left atop his shoulders. The poor boy would already be petrified upon looking across the ring and there's no doubt the boy would have to be pushed out of the corner for the first round.

A few good knocks and socks and leonard would go into his customary shell as we watched in the Norris fight but he wouldn't stay around. No, Hagler would mercifully put him out of his misery. Right jab-right hook- left hook-right hook and it's over in the first with leonard's corner throwing in the towel as Leonard awaits the count of ten.

I had to agree with Elton John. By 1982-84, and at higher weight classes, Leonard would have not been a match for The Hitman or Marvelous. It would have been a different story.

[elmersalsa]

Duran, considering his lightweight resume, a victory over Leonard, what was too much for Hagler and Hearns. Furthermore, Duran had a very close fight against Hagler. And what's interesting with Hearns, he was outboxing Leonard, but got caught. And maybe if he had a better chin, a fight against Hagler could have gone in the other way. But it is what it is. So, I pick Duran, closing eyes on him being destroyed by Hearns. Anyway the fights against all those three were in the upper category for Duran and in addition to this he faced Hearns, when he was undoubtedly past prime.

[BoxBuzz]

Monzon would have beaten all of them soundly.

[elmersalsa]

Monzon would have beaten all of them soundly.

I got to agree with you, there. King Carlos looked kind of big besides those Fab 4.

[elmersalsa]

Monzon would have beaten all of them soundly.

I got to agree with you, there. King Carlos looked kind of big besides those Fab 4.

[jpspice]

In my mind, Hagler hands down. Look at his record! He avenged two of his losses and one draw with stoppages, which Leaves Leonard as the only opponent he ever "lost" to,. split/controversial decision which I personally think Hagler won.
Hagler wasn't the quickest but if you add it all up...ring savvy, power, jab, ability to take a punch, strong finisher, effective as a left or righty. Hagler comes in first for me. Duran would be next, Leonard, Hearns. But all these guys were the cream of the crop. What a great era in boxing!

[elmersalsa]

In my mind, Hagler hands down. Look at his record! He avenged two of his losses and one draw with stoppages, which Leaves Leonard as the only opponent he ever "lost" to,. split/controversial decision which I personally think Hagler won.
Hagler wasn't the quickest but if you add it all up...ring savvy, power, jab, ability to take a punch, strong finisher, effective as a left or righty. Hagler comes in first for me. Duran would be next, Leonard, Hearns. But all these guys were the cream of the crop. What a great era in boxing!

The knock on Marvelous was that he never challenged the light-heavyweights. Anything else, he was a great, great fighter!

[ElJefe]

Duran is the greatest of the 4, no doubt.

[man]

i cannot say. but hagler defeated
tommy in devastating fashion, so
it cannot be tommy. tommy killed
duran, so it cannot be roberto.

the only one who defeated each
of the others is ray. actually i do
think the argument is flawed, but
nevertheless it is sugar for me.

[elmersalsa]

Duran is the greatest of the 4, no doubt.

I agree. Top 5 in my view.

[oogiebe]

Head to head comes first for me, so while I'm not a big fan of his, Leonard the best of the four.

Leonard
Hagler
Hearns
Duran.

In that order.

[ewenhay]

All great fighters but at their best at different weights. P4p they all have different attributes that set them above or below each other. That's why their fights were so exciting and intriguing. Historically they all bring something different to the table too. It's extremely hard to place one above the rest with any degree of certainty.

9 times out of ten I'd fancy them at their best weight against the others.

Duran at lightweight
Leonard at welter
Hearns at light middle
Hagler at middle

[chrisjs1985]

Duran, surely overall is the best. He has the best career and the best accomplishments and pound for pound at his best is the best fighter.

Duran
Leonard
Hagler
Hearns

They are all incredible fighters who had unbelievable careers.

[Ambling Alp II]

I agree with most of this excpet for one tiny change. Here is how I would have it:

Leonard surely overall is the best. He has the best career and the best accomplishments and pound for pound at his best is the best fighter.


Leonard
Duran
Hagler
Hearns

[Onetimeonly]

Duran, Leonard, hearns, hagler

[Duran1970]

Duran Hagler Hearns Leonard

[Ambling Alp II]

Leonard is fourth? Really?