Grilling Machine wrote: ↑29 Apr 2018, 00:02
If Wilder loses it leaves Joshua a clear path to Fury, and I'm sure Hearn'd be delighted with that. Likewise, Fury'd love them to knock each other out in turns before he has to face either.
5'11" Frazier would've fought them all at the drop of a hat, especially his own! This is so frustrating as a fan, but I understand why nobody's in a rush to see their career ruined, and that's something that we are a part of the blame for. Well, not us here, but most of AJ's fans are fair-weather.
Still, fingers crossed for summer/autumn.
Ideal situation for Joshua v Fury is all the belts on the line at once but the fight can't realistically take place for a year given it'll take Fury a few fights to get back up to speed.
It's a question worth repeating. Wilder made barely more than 2m last time. Why is 12.5m a joke?
If it went ahead at that, how many others could Joshua make as much profit from? Haye if he stops Bellew and Fury if he returns in reasonable form, but after that?
They represent the best payday for each other right now, it's all about compromise.
Grilling Machine wrote: ↑29 Apr 2018, 00:46
If it went ahead at that, how many others could Joshua make as much profit from? Haye if he stops Bellew and Fury if he returns in reasonable form, but after that?
They represent the best payday for each other right now, it's all about compromise.
I don't think Wilder does represent Joshua's biggest payday. I think that is genuinely Fury.
Also, Joshua makes massive money against anyway. The 12.5m offer for Wilder is around six times as much as Wilder has ever made. Six times Joshua's top payday is knocking on 100m. They're just not comparable.
jamamb wrote: ↑29 Apr 2018, 01:01
wilders top payday was 2.1m us dollars (£1.5m) yet apparently he brings 50m-60m extra to the pot on top of what far bigger earning wlad did
and apparently its only 'idiots' who believe otherwise
As a comparison Joshua's record payday in dollars is 20.6m.
It's only people in the UK who are really that bothered about this fight. Wilder is probably better known here than he is the States purely because of the links with Joshua.
I don't think either are scared to be fair. I do however think a guy who's team presents a contract saying '24 hours to sign, no further details' isn't really being serious.
Joshua said live on TV, in the ring after the Parker fight he wouldn't fight Wilder in the States. Is he being serious?
dirk2686 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018, 20:16
The fact no contract seems to have been prepared, (and surely if Wilder's team were genuine this would be presented by them)
Hearn didn't present a contract with his offer. Why do you take his seriously and not the other?
dirk2686 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018, 20:16
The fact no contract seems to have been prepared, (and surely if Wilder's team were genuine this would be presented by them)
Hearn didn't present a contract with his offer. Why do you take his seriously and not the other?
Quite correct and something some don't seem to want to acknowledge.
whats also correct is that wilders side bizarrely cancelled a face to face meeting and imposed a strange 24 hour timeline on the deal. so its basically a mystery deal that they want ajs side to agree to before they know what exactly there agreeing to, and they needed to agree within 24 hours, and wilders side refused to discuss it unless that was done
aside from the 50m offer, which is way out of line with the numbers these guys have generated before, the other stuff is strange and certainly raises doubts
Last edited by jamamb on 29 Apr 2018, 03:57, edited 1 time in total.
If every heavyweight refused to fight Joshua for the next year AJ wouldn't make a penny. It takes 2 to tango. Treating the WBC chsnpion as just another hw shows Hearns and joshuas arrogance...
wesshaw1985 wrote: ↑29 Apr 2018, 03:57
If every heavyweight refused to fight Joshua for the next year AJ wouldn't make a penny. It takes 2 to tango. Treating the WBC chsnpion as just another hw shows Hearns and joshuas arrogance...
ya like thats going to happen, they can make big money vs aj. even a lowish profile takam made over twice what ortiz did vs wilder.
and how did they treat him like just another hw? who else did they offer 12.5m too? how much do wilder or other hws usually make?
wesshaw1985 wrote: ↑29 Apr 2018, 03:57
If every heavyweight refused to fight Joshua for the next year AJ wouldn't make a penny. It takes 2 to tango. Treating the WBC chsnpion as just another hw shows Hearns and joshuas arrogance...
they cant continue to sell out football stadiums i cant imagine a person going in the upper tier more than once they must struggle to see the ring from up there never mind the fight.
wesshaw1985 wrote: ↑29 Apr 2018, 03:57
If every heavyweight refused to fight Joshua for the next year AJ wouldn't make a penny. It takes 2 to tango. Treating the WBC chsnpion as just another hw shows Hearns and joshuas arrogance...
ya like thats going to happen, they can make big money vs aj. even a lowish profile takam made over twice what ortiz did vs wilder.
and how did they treat him like just another hw? who else did they offer 12.5m too?
Wilder is a talker and a self promoter he is never going to take a flat fee. He wants to build the fight and try to make more money
Although as I've said before he could accept the flat fee and do zero talking moving forward...
dirk2686 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018, 20:16
The fact no contract seems to have been prepared, (and surely if Wilder's team were genuine this would be presented by them)
Hearn didn't present a contract with his offer. Why do you take his seriously and not the other?
Well he wouldn't would he. He came out with the offer and the other side said nothing. Then they made a counter offer. He said 'ok then, let's see the contract.' Then they said 'no, sign now, 24 hours.'
Why is 12.5m a poor offer to a guy making a career high 2.1m?
wesshaw1985 wrote: ↑29 Apr 2018, 03:57
If every heavyweight refused to fight Joshua for the next year AJ wouldn't make a penny. It takes 2 to tango. Treating the WBC chsnpion as just another hw shows Hearns and joshuas arrogance...
ya like thats going to happen, they can make big money vs aj. even a lowish profile takam made over twice what ortiz did vs wilder.
and how did they treat him like just another hw? who else did they offer 12.5m too?
Wilder is a talker and a self promoter he is never going to take a flat fee. He wants to build the fight and try to make more money
Although as I've said before he could accept the flat fee and do zero talking moving forward...
A talker and a self promoter who builds fights all the way to earning around 10% of what Joshua does.
dirk2686 wrote: ↑28 Apr 2018, 20:16
The fact no contract seems to have been prepared, (and surely if Wilder's team were genuine this would be presented by them)
Hearn didn't present a contract with his offer. Why do you take his seriously and not the other?
Well he wouldn't would he. He came out with the offer and the other side said nothing. Then they made a counter offer. He said 'ok then, let's see the contract.' Then they said 'no, sign now, 24 hours.'
Why is 12.5m a poor offer to a guy making a career high 2.1m?
Hearn answers your question when he says on IFL he will probably up his offer. Joshua doesn't want to fight in the States so they're going to have to pay Wilder big money to fight in UK.
(Wilder sued to get his purse of 4.5m for Povetkin fight)
Hearn didn't present a contract with his offer. Why do you take his seriously and not the other?
Well he wouldn't would he. He came out with the offer and the other side said nothing. Then they made a counter offer. He said 'ok then, let's see the contract.' Then they said 'no, sign now, 24 hours.'
Why is 12.5m a poor offer to a guy making a career high 2.1m?
Hearn answers your question when he says on IFL he will probably up his offer. Joshua doesn't want to fight in the States so they're going to have to pay Wilder big money to fight in UK.
(Wilder sued to get his purse of 4.5m for Povetkin fight)
But why is it a joke offer? If they come back with something different then that's called negotiating. As long as it's realistic.
If you were selling your car for 10k and someone came back with an offer of 9.5k you'd take. If he came back with a grand cash, take it now, offer gone in 24 hours, you'd laugh.
dirk2686 wrote: ↑29 Apr 2018, 05:11
If you were selling your car for 10k and someone came back with an offer of 9.5k you'd take. If he came back with a grand cash, take it now, offer gone in 24 hours, you'd laugh.
Wilder hasn't offered a tenth of what he wants. Joshua said he'd fight for 50m tomorrow. Wilder made the offer and now Hearn is saying he will have to up his offer.
He points out exactly why this is ludicrous. It's surely pretty standard to ask about the details of a fight. Where, when, on which channel. The fact no contract seems to have been prepared, (and surely if Wilder's team were genuine this would be presented by them), means all we have is 'fifty million, sign now, we'll talk details later.'
its the first time I've seen anyone put it on Hearn, its usually the Kugan Cassius softball questions. I thought it was fun to see...
dirk2686 wrote: ↑29 Apr 2018, 05:11
If you were selling your car for 10k and someone came back with an offer of 9.5k you'd take. If he came back with a grand cash, take it now, offer gone in 24 hours, you'd laugh.
Wilder hasn't offered a tenth of what he wants. Joshua said he'd fight for 50m tomorrow. Wilder made the offer and now Hearn is saying he will have to up his offer.
I don't understand your point and I'll keep asking the same question. Why is 12.5m for a guy who has made a career high 2.1m a joke offer?
The 50m counter seems ridiculous in itself. To then present it as a 24 hour take or leave no questions asked we'll sort the details out later job simply makes it look like a joke.
dirk2686 wrote: ↑29 Apr 2018, 19:39Why is 12.5m for a guy who has made a career high 2.1m a joke offer?
Remains to be seen if it is.
Just because Wilder hasn't made a fortune from previous fights doesn't mean that he won't benefit hugely from the guaranteed hype, and it looks like he fancies himself to further bump his earnings with his talk. He could well be wrong and end up wishing that he'd taken one of these flat offers, but he'll take home considerably more if he's right.
dirk2686 wrote: ↑29 Apr 2018, 19:39Why is 12.5m for a guy who has made a career high 2.1m a joke offer?
Remains to be seen if it is.
Just because Wilder hasn't made a fortune from previous fights doesn't mean that he won't benefit hugely from the guaranteed hype, and it looks like he fancies himself to further bump his earnings with his talk. He could well be wrong and end up wishing that he'd taken one of these flat offers, but he'll take home considerably more if he's right.
I think he will benefit from the hype, but the fact remains that if this fight is six times bigger than what Wilder has ever done before, six times his highest pay is very close to 12.5m.
Will it be six times bigger? It'll certainly be big in the UK regardless because Joshua is massive over here. It'll be Wilder's biggest fight in the States, but it clearly won't be that massive. As has been said, where is the evidence that this can do a million buys in the US?
It'll be Wilder's biggest payday by a country mile either way, but supposing it did $50m and Joshua ended up with $37.5... The only precedent that feels likely to be comparable is AJ-Wlad, so how did that do?
I'm not expecting Mayweather-McGregor numbers, but I still expect this to sell really well. I imagine Eubank earnt as much against Benn as all of his previous fights combined, and that's one of many examples. We'll see.
Last edited by Grilling Machine on 30 Apr 2018, 22:01, edited 1 time in total.
It'll be Wilder's biggest payday by a country mile either way, but supposing it did $50m and Joshua ended up with $37.5... The only precedent that feels likely to be comparable is AJ-Wlad, so how did that do?
I'm not expecting Mayweather-McGregor numbers, but I still expect this to sell really well. We'll see.
Wilder is doing the biggest numbers of the showtime crew at the moment. Wlad was hated in america for his absolutely shocking and embarrassing performances and tactics. He deserved to be stripped for the povetkin fight tactics and banned from the sport for the ibragimov insomnia curer, a fight that would be used to extract confessions from prisoners in Guantanamo bay if it wasn't classified as torture under the Geneva convention, as many wlad fights have. Using wlad aj as a barometer for this fight is downright stupid.
