Iron Mike Towell Brain Scanners

[JamieM]

As some may know Mikes partner Chloe raised alot of money to invest in brain scanners for Scottish boxing to try and prevent similar events.

Anyways just seen all over social media boxing Scotland have refused to allow their doctor's to be trained on these. I understand some of the Dundee clubs sending reps alot but surely the governing body in this country should be getting behind this.

Heart sorry for Chloe who has put in alot of work to be treated that way. Nothing shocks me though.

[Boxerbeetle]

That’s terrible news - what’s the reasoning they’re giving?

[Avitar]

As some may know Mikes partner Chloe raised alot of money to invest in brain scanners for Scottish boxing to try and prevent similar events.

Anyways just seen all over social media boxing Scotland have refused to allow their doctor's to be trained on these. I understand some of the Dundee clubs sending reps alot but surely the governing body in this country should be getting behind this.

Heart sorry for Chloe who has put in alot of work to be treated that way. Nothing shocks me though.

Absolutely mental what possible reason can they have for this.

[Coco]

Doesn't the MBC have these hand held scanners?

[JamieM]

Don't think Chloe got an answer just refusing to allow their doctor's to attend the training. Chloe has fundraised to fly specialist over from Ireland to deliver the training they just had to be there. To be fair it's mad that a sport such as boxing to be given brain scanners have to donated. I amnt positive but I think Barry mcguigan has one for his fighters. Boxing Scotland need to answer what's going on

[chinarich]

I can only think that the British Board doesn’t support their use, for whatever reason. Still, it seems like a fairly callous stance to take...

[Greg Houston]

I've spoken to a doctor about these before. He told me that basically they only pick up major bleeds and wouldn't catch the smaller issues that aren't immediately obvious. The impression I get is that if a boxer has the kind of injury they pick up, then there would be signs and a doctor would be sending them in the ambulance anyway.

[Alba]

As some may know Mikes partner Chloe raised alot of money to invest in brain scanners for Scottish boxing to try and prevent similar events.

Anyways just seen all over social media boxing Scotland have refused to allow their doctor's to be trained on these. I understand some of the Dundee clubs sending reps alot but surely the governing body in this country should be getting behind this.

Heart sorry for Chloe who has put in alot of work to be treated that way. Nothing shocks me though.

When you say Boxing Scotland do you mean the Amatuer body?or do you mean the Scottish area of the BBBOC

[Mimmy]

Doesn't the MBC have these hand held scanners?

Ive made it known in the past that I have never slagged off BIBA and really dont get involved these days over arguments regarding their situation on who fights who.

It is infact BIBA who initially introduced brain scanners to the fore front and use them on their shows. BIBA do provide training and have offered the BBBoC in the past to use their scanners on their shows and introduce training on how to use brain scanners.

The BBBoC have been reluctant to buy brain scanners and use them, but they are not alone so this reply is NOT a BBBoC slagfest.

As it currently stands I think still only BIBA use scanners on their shows and to date they have had no serious injuries so the scanners have NOT detected any bleeds on the brain thus saved any boxer from very serious injuries.

There have been a few people who have now got onboard and started petitions to get the BBBoC in this country to use scanners on their shows to, notably after the Scott Westgarth tragedy too.

As BIBA have not detected any injuries at present (due to no injuries occurred) Its still not fully 100% a 'prevention' that a serious injury can be prevented. I hope they never detect a bleed, and a bleed never occurs to any boxer but its a fact of life within the sport.

In my opinion any prevention is better than none. Having something at hand is better than nothing when incidents occur. The proof will be in the pudding if an incident occurs and a bleed has been detected and a boxer receives quicker treatment and his life is saved due to a quicker response after fights.

At the end of the day, whether its BIBA or BBBoC who use them its a early diagnosis of bleeds which could save a life.

Here is the link to the petition if you wish to sign it.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/216069

[semtexreilly]

Boxing scotland amateurs doctors are refusing to use them,for what reason I have no clue I can't understand this tbh,Michael towells mum and partner Chloe went to a lot of trouble fundraising to get this equipment to help boxers,crazy times

[dw01]

Ludicrous. You'd think that any additional measures would be positive.

[leejonesjnr]

As I understand it the reason that they haven’t been widely rolled out in sports (boxing and American football in particular) is that the technology isn’t yet up to speed.
People seem to think that they are simply a faster, mobile MRI machine. They are not.
An MRI scan gives a 100% accurate and reliable image of what’s going on in there. These hand held scanners ‘may be upto 90% accurate’ when detecting bleeds.
At this stage a positive result on a scanner would still mean that a boxer would go to hospital for a traditional MRI, however a boxer suffering ill effects may get a clear result from the handheld scanner and believe all was okay when in reality their headache was far more serious and they weren’t seeking help.

[Mimmy]

As I understand it the reason that they haven’t been widely rolled out in sports (boxing and American football in particular) is that the technology isn’t yet up to speed.
People seem to think that they are simply a faster, mobile MRI machine. They are not.
An MRI scan gives a 100% accurate and reliable image of what’s going on in there. These hand held scanners ‘may be upto 90% accurate’ when detecting bleeds.
At this stage a positive result on a scanner would still mean that a boxer would go to hospital for a traditional MRI, however a boxer suffering ill effects may get a clear result from the handheld scanner and believe all was okay when in reality their headache was far more serious and they weren’t seeking help.

The proof will be in the pudding when one is used on a boxer and gives a result that alerts something is amiss and the boxer, or whoever the sports person is then recieves faster help in terms of getting them to hospital rather than sat around somewhere with some side effects that they are unaware of.

Personally i would like to see every boxer has to have a scan via hospital professionals after each fight but i dont think that would ever happen unless this exercise was paid for rather than receiving one for free on the nhs.

A scan costs around £500 so if there are 8 fights on the card the bill would be £4000.

As for the hand held scanner they cost about £5000 i think but as they have not detected any injury as of yet due to the fact that only 1 boxing unit uses them its hard to discuss whether they work or not. The theory of them suggests they do but we will have to wait and see.

[spudder56]

As I understand it the reason that they haven’t been widely rolled out in sports (boxing and American football in particular) is that the technology isn’t yet up to speed.
People seem to think that they are simply a faster, mobile MRI machine. They are not.
An MRI scan gives a 100% accurate and reliable image of what’s going on in there. These hand held scanners ‘may be upto 90% accurate’ when detecting bleeds.
At this stage a positive result on a scanner would still mean that a boxer would go to hospital for a traditional MRI, however a boxer suffering ill effects may get a clear result from the handheld scanner and believe all was okay when in reality their headache was far more serious and they weren’t seeking help.

The proof will be in the pudding when one is used on a boxer and gives a result that alerts something is amiss and the boxer, or whoever the sports person is then recieves faster help in terms of getting them to hospital rather than sat around somewhere with some side effects that they are unaware of.

Personally i would like to see every boxer has to have a scan via hospital professionals after each fight but i dont think that would ever happen unless this exercise was paid for rather than receiving one for free on the nhs.

A scan costs around £500 so if there are 8 fights on the card the bill would be £4000.

As for the hand held scanner they cost about £5000 i think but as they have not detected any injury as of yet due to the fact that only 1 boxing unit uses them its hard to discuss whether they work or not. The theory of them suggests they do but we will have to wait and see.

If there were 8 fights on the card bill would be 8k so it’s never going to happen definitely not on small hall shows anyway

[leejonesjnr]

As I understand it the reason that they haven’t been widely rolled out in sports (boxing and American football in particular) is that the technology isn’t yet up to speed.
People seem to think that they are simply a faster, mobile MRI machine. They are not.
An MRI scan gives a 100% accurate and reliable image of what’s going on in there. These hand held scanners ‘may be upto 90% accurate’ when detecting bleeds.
At this stage a positive result on a scanner would still mean that a boxer would go to hospital for a traditional MRI, however a boxer suffering ill effects may get a clear result from the handheld scanner and believe all was okay when in reality their headache was far more serious and they weren’t seeking help.

The proof will be in the pudding when one is used on a boxer and gives a result that alerts something is amiss and the boxer, or whoever the sports person is then recieves faster help in terms of getting them to hospital rather than sat around somewhere with some side effects that they are unaware of.

Personally i would like to see every boxer has to have a scan via hospital professionals after each fight but i dont think that would ever happen unless this exercise was paid for rather than receiving one for free on the nhs.

A scan costs around £500 so if there are 8 fights on the card the bill would be £4000.

As for the hand held scanner they cost about £5000 i think but as they have not detected any injury as of yet due to the fact that only 1 boxing unit uses them its hard to discuss whether they work or not. The theory of them suggests they do but we will have to wait and see.

No, the data exists already. We know that they have ‘upto 90% accuracy’.
Until the technology is able to give better accuracy results, they will still be a possible danger as they may tell a boxer or other sportsman that they do not have a bleed when they do. This will lead to a boxer that may otherwise seek medical attention dismissing symptoms as ‘just a headache’ whilst their condition worsens.
I was under the impression that all BIBA shows used these scanners but I discovered at the weekend that they do not.
It will be good if they get the accuracy up and they become widely used but I believe we are still quite some time away from that happening.

[Mimmy]

As I understand it the reason that they haven’t been widely rolled out in sports (boxing and American football in particular) is that the technology isn’t yet up to speed.
People seem to think that they are simply a faster, mobile MRI machine. They are not.
An MRI scan gives a 100% accurate and reliable image of what’s going on in there. These hand held scanners ‘may be upto 90% accurate’ when detecting bleeds.
At this stage a positive result on a scanner would still mean that a boxer would go to hospital for a traditional MRI, however a boxer suffering ill effects may get a clear result from the handheld scanner and believe all was okay when in reality their headache was far more serious and they weren’t seeking help.

The proof will be in the pudding when one is used on a boxer and gives a result that alerts something is amiss and the boxer, or whoever the sports person is then recieves faster help in terms of getting them to hospital rather than sat around somewhere with some side effects that they are unaware of.

Personally i would like to see every boxer has to have a scan via hospital professionals after each fight but i dont think that would ever happen unless this exercise was paid for rather than receiving one for free on the nhs.

A scan costs around £500 so if there are 8 fights on the card the bill would be £4000.

As for the hand held scanner they cost about £5000 i think but as they have not detected any injury as of yet due to the fact that only 1 boxing unit uses them its hard to discuss whether they work or not. The theory of them suggests they do but we will have to wait and see.

No, the data exists already. We know that they have ‘upto 90% accuracy’.
Until the technology is able to give better accuracy results, they will still be a possible danger as they may tell a boxer or other sportsman that they do not have a bleed when they do. This will lead to a boxer that may otherwise seek medical attention dismissing symptoms as ‘just a headache’ whilst their condition worsens.
I was under the impression that all BIBA shows used these scanners but I discovered at the weekend that they do not.
It will be good if they get the accuracy up and they become widely used but I believe we are still quite some time away from that happening.

Im also under the impression all BIBA shows use scanners. I cant confirm this as ive no way of finding out unless i personally email their boss.

Im sure no bleed has ever been detected as of yet as no boxer as far as im aware as suffered a bleed on a BIBA show.

As no other organisation uses them its hard to assess if they actually do as they say. This is the part that has to be proven. Now, if the case comes along where a boxer has had a scan, using a hand held device on a show after a bout, and has felt perfectly fine, but a device has indicated a bleed and a boxer has then recieved such treatment that has prevented death or perminant injury then this should be a case that says they work and do need to be available paramount.

Anything that can cease death or perminant damage should be available, regardless of the cost if they have been proven so.

[leejonesjnr]

The proof will be in the pudding when one is used on a boxer and gives a result that alerts something is amiss and the boxer, or whoever the sports person is then recieves faster help in terms of getting them to hospital rather than sat around somewhere with some side effects that they are unaware of.

Personally i would like to see every boxer has to have a scan via hospital professionals after each fight but i dont think that would ever happen unless this exercise was paid for rather than receiving one for free on the nhs.

A scan costs around £500 so if there are 8 fights on the card the bill would be £4000.

As for the hand held scanner they cost about £5000 i think but as they have not detected any injury as of yet due to the fact that only 1 boxing unit uses them its hard to discuss whether they work or not. The theory of them suggests they do but we will have to wait and see.

No, the data exists already. We know that they have ‘upto 90% accuracy’.
Until the technology is able to give better accuracy results, they will still be a possible danger as they may tell a boxer or other sportsman that they do not have a bleed when they do. This will lead to a boxer that may otherwise seek medical attention dismissing symptoms as ‘just a headache’ whilst their condition worsens.
I was under the impression that all BIBA shows used these scanners but I discovered at the weekend that they do not.
It will be good if they get the accuracy up and they become widely used but I believe we are still quite some time away from that happening.

Im also under the impression all BIBA shows use scanners. I cant confirm this as ive no way of finding out unless i personally email their boss.

Im sure no bleed has ever been detected as of yet as no boxer as far as im aware as suffered a bleed on a BIBA show.

As no other organisation uses them its hard to assess if they actually do as they say. This is the part that has to be proven. Now, if the case comes along where a boxer has had a scan, using a hand held device on a show after a bout, and has felt perfectly fine, but a device has indicated a bleed and a boxer has then recieved such treatment that has prevented death or perminant injury then this should be a case that says they work and do need to be available paramount.

Anything that can cease death or perminant damage should be available, regardless of the cost if they have been proven so.

Whatever the party line, not all BIBA shows are using them.
It isn't hard to tell if they do as they say, there is plenty of data out there including the manufacturers website. They do not detect bleeds with enough accuracy to be implemented. As I have already said, they may give a false all clear and then a boxer could dismiss symptoms rather than seeking medical attention, thinking they will go away as he has already been scanned and cleared.

[daviddee]

No, the data exists already. We know that they have ‘upto 90% accuracy’.
Until the technology is able to give better accuracy results, they will still be a possible danger as they may tell a boxer or other sportsman that they do not have a bleed when they do. This will lead to a boxer that may otherwise seek medical attention dismissing symptoms as ‘just a headache’ whilst their condition worsens.
I was under the impression that all BIBA shows used these scanners but I discovered at the weekend that they do not.
It will be good if they get the accuracy up and they become widely used but I believe we are still quite some time away from that happening.

Im also under the impression all BIBA shows use scanners. I cant confirm this as ive no way of finding out unless i personally email their boss.

Im sure no bleed has ever been detected as of yet as no boxer as far as im aware as suffered a bleed on a BIBA show.

As no other organisation uses them its hard to assess if they actually do as they say. This is the part that has to be proven. Now, if the case comes along where a boxer has had a scan, using a hand held device on a show after a bout, and has felt perfectly fine, but a device has indicated a bleed and a boxer has then recieved such treatment that has prevented death or perminant injury then this should be a case that says they work and do need to be available paramount.

Anything that can cease death or perminant damage should be available, regardless of the cost if they have been proven so.

Whatever the party line, not all BIBA shows are using them.
It isn't hard to tell if they do as they say, there is plenty of data out there including the manufacturers website. They do not detect bleeds with enough accuracy to be implemented. As I have already said, they may give a false all clear and then a boxer could dismiss symptoms rather than seeking medical attention, thinking they will go away as he has already been scanned and cleared.

So your saying don’t use them because they are only 90% accurate?? Are you being serious?? If anyone is showing signs they should be sent to the hospital by the Dr on the night or their coaching management team. These scanners will save lives and both amateur and pro boxing should be using them.. 90% effective is huge and this should be implemented in the correct way.. Safety should be paramount in boxing and should come over promoters and managers profits

[JamieM]

Condoms aren't 100% so I amnt gonna use them. Neither are gender scans. Sometimes you just to look at the odds and if they save 1 life then use them.

[leejonesjnr]

If ten boxers with bleeds are scanned, at least one of them will get the all clear and go home happy that they have ‘just a headache’ - and then what?
Safety and the continual pursuit of improvement is important, however the reason that all American football teams and boxing commissions aren’t rolling these scanners out yet, is because they are not ready.
There have been a few deaths and severe injuries in recent years and to avoid the probable posts which would be upsetting to those men’s families please don’t continue this debate with examples, but think about how any of them could have been helped in any way by handheld scanners - they all received immediate medical attention.

[JamieM]

My city was shattered by it. If you are looking for medical perfection then it isn't gonna happen. It's a fact. If any boxer is suffering head aches then they should not be fighting. The scanners are there to scan everyone and the ones Who have no symptoms. It's better to be pro active and atleast try rather than do nothing which is happening now. Even when you get a routine operation you sign a waver. Boxers will know that these are still evolving and developing but what is there to lose ?

[Mimmy]

Personally i think 90% accurcy is better than 0%.

I think if 9 bleeds out of 10 are detected at an early stage then it has to be a good detection method. If anyone says that it isnt surely they are fools.

[leejonesjnr]

If you are looking for medical perfection then it isn't gonna happen.

MRIs and MRAs are 100% reliable

[leejonesjnr]

what is there to lose ?

The lives of boxers who get a false all clear and go home

[leejonesjnr]

If any boxer is suffering head aches then they should not be fighting.

Agree