Joe Frazier: Best win?

[DrDuke]

Joe was done by the Ali fight.... He won that one through sheer force of will.

That sounds ridiculous.

[hhaehre]

Joe was done by the Ali fight.... He won that one through sheer force of will.

That sounds ridiculous.

I think Frazier was at his best around 69-70. He never looked the same after FOTC, he looked great in the fight but it took something out of him that he never got back.

[Kalan]

Joe was done by the Ali fight.... He won that one through sheer force of will.

That sounds ridiculous.

I think Frazier was at his best around 69-70. He never looked the same after FOTC, he looked great in the fight but it took something out of him that he never got back.

True... Frazier had high blood pressure and an enlarged heart GOING INTO the 1st Ali fight... His health problems are well documented as are Ali's... You can box if you're suffering major health problems... Look at James Toney --, a fomer outstanding Middleweight Champion (160) -- in some of his Heavyweight Fights where he weighed 230 to over 250...

[DrDuke]

Frazier had some health problems indeed. Almost blind on left eye since the beginning of his career. Blood pressure problems also. And I remember, I've read something about the troubles with a one of his hands, it couldn't unbend fully or something like that. All that stuff actually proves, how great Frazier was, he competed on the elite level and was literally destroying his opponents.

[Kalan]

And he was fighting extremely weak opponents... Physically weak little dudes who had no strength.

When Joe fought a big, tall, strong, powerful stallion like Foreman??? .... He got blasted into the ring lights.

[DrDuke]

And he was fighting extremely weak opponents... Physically weak little dudes who had no strength.

When Joe fought a big, tall, strong, powerful stallion like Foreman??? .... He got blasted into the ring lights.

Actually almost everyone he fought was bigger than him. Who except Foreman won?

[Kalan]

And he was fighting extremely weak opponents... Physically weak little dudes who had no strength.

When Joe fought a big, tall, strong, powerful stallion like Foreman??? .... He got blasted into the ring lights.

Actually almost everyone he fought was bigger than him. Who except Foreman won?

Everyone he fought bigger??? WTF??? Were the following opponents bigger than Joe?

Quarry? No.... Ellis? Nah... Bob Foster? Nope.... Zyglewitz? HELL no.... Conner? negative.... Bonavena? A similar size. Distributed differently.... Manuel Ramos? A month before he fought Joe Frazier Ramos weighed 196 for another fight... Let's just say Ramos was soft like Don Cockell... Terry Daniels??? Daniels was even smaller than Quarry... Doug Jones? Eddie Machen??? Machen weighed 192... Bonavena weighed 205 for their 1st fight and the 3 guys who Frazier fought before Bonavena weighed 190, 180, and 177.... So Frazier specialized in fighting teeny little guys he could run over.

Frazier fought some big marshmallows like Buster Mathis... He didn't fight big strong guys other than Foreman.

[gilgamesh]

Which was his best and/or defining win?

Over Muhammad Ali for sure. With that victory Smokin' Joe proved once and for all, that he had been a true champion. Furthermore, the fight itself was exciting.

What was his best KO win?

Here it's not easy to pick something, because Joe had a lot of spectacular KO victories. Jimmy Ellis knock out in their 1st fight is probably the best.

Regardless of win/loss.. Who was his best opponent?

Muhammad Ali again, what is obvious, of course, as Ali was the best fighter of that era.

I agree with the Doc's answers here.

[Kalan]

Foreman was Frazier's best opponent.... He turned Frazier every way but lose.

George wasn't everybody's best opponent -- but for guys like Frazier and Norton he was... Foreman also had a better career than Ali and came out in better shape... As a sly old warrior Foreman proved he wasn't all brute force and power.

Frazier's best KO was Doug Jones... That was too much... It was brutal.

His best win was Ali.... The Rope-A-Dope tactic backfired on Ali.

[DrDuke]

And he was fighting extremely weak opponents... Physically weak little dudes who had no strength.

When Joe fought a big, tall, strong, powerful stallion like Foreman??? .... He got blasted into the ring lights.

Actually almost everyone he fought was bigger than him. Who except Foreman won?

Everyone he fought bigger??? WTF??? Were the following opponents bigger than Joe?

Quarry? No.... Ellis? Nah... Bob Foster? Nope.... Zyglewitz? HELL no.... Conner? negative.... Bonavena? A similar size. Distributed differently.... Manuel Ramos? A month before he fought Joe Frazier Ramos weighed 196 for another fight... Let's just say Ramos was soft like Don Cockell... Terry Daniels??? Daniels was even smaller than Quarry... Doug Jones? Eddie Machen??? Machen weighed 192... Bonavena weighed 205 for their 1st fight and the 3 guys who Frazier fought before Bonavena weighed 190, 180, and 177.... So Frazier specialized in fighting teeny little guys he could run over.

Frazier fought some big marshmallows like Buster Mathis... He didn't fight big strong guys other than Foreman.

Can you read? I've never said, that everyone.

Ramos actually was bigger in their fight. In addition to him and Mathis there were Chuvalo, Bugner, Ali. And Quarry was approximately the same size. Just as Bonavena.

And who was there as big and strong as Foreman? Lyle? Yes, however, he didn't posses such exeptional power. Who else? Foreman was exceptional with his power, only Shavers, Lyle and Frazier himself can be compared.

[Kalan]

Actually almost everyone he fought was bigger than him. Who except Foreman won?

Everyone he fought bigger??? WTF??? Were the following opponents bigger than Joe?

Quarry? No.... Ellis? Nah... Bob Foster? Nope.... Zyglewitz? HELL no.... Conner? negative.... Bonavena? A similar size. Distributed differently.... Manuel Ramos? A month before he fought Joe Frazier Ramos weighed 196 for another fight... Let's just say Ramos was soft like Don Cockell... Terry Daniels??? Daniels was even smaller than Quarry... Doug Jones? Eddie Machen??? Machen weighed 192... Bonavena weighed 205 for their 1st fight and the 3 guys who Frazier fought before Bonavena weighed 190, 180, and 177.... So Frazier specialized in fighting teeny little guys he could run over.

Frazier fought some big marshmallows like Buster Mathis... He didn't fight big strong guys other than Foreman.

Can you read? I've never said, that everyone.

Ramos actually was bigger in their fight. In addition to him and Mathis there were Chuvalo, Bugner, Ali. And Quarry was approximately the same size. Just as Bonavena.

And who was there as big and strong as Foreman? Lyle? Yes, however, he didn't posses such exeptional power. Who else? Foreman was exceptional with his power, only Shavers, Lyle and Frazier himself can be compared.

Quarry was the same size as Ellis... He was overpowered by Frazier... Bonavena was the same size and stayed with him... Ramos was so weak he was not even a Cruiserweight in strength.

Size without strength is useless... Bugner, Mathis, and Chuvalo didn't have the strength to plow Frazier... Lyle, Blue Lewis and Mac Foster did, but you also need sharp reflexes and a tight swing... When Frazier loads his hook up you need to get your shot on him and they might not... Foreman had the confidence to rip his shot in there with the hook coming. He was trained to perfection for that fight.. A few pounds excess fat will make a big difference... You can't afford to be fat.

[elmersalsa]

Joe Frazier's highlights

Most defining win: W15 Muhammad Ali (I)...March 8, 1971..."He was the absolute winner of the Fight of the Century"

Other Defining fights: W10 Oscar Bonavena, WTKO11 Buster Mathis, WTKO5 Jimmy Ellis (I), WTKO9 Jerry Quarry (I), WTKO2 Bob Foster, LTKO2 George Foreman (I), and LTKO14 Muhammad Ali (III)

He beat also Doug Jones, Eddie Machen, and Manuel Ramos

Was the Ring Fighter of the Year in 1967, 1970 and 1971.

NY and World Heavyweight Champion (1968-73)
Made 10 title defenses.

Best knockout win in my view: WTKO5 Jimmy Ellis in fight #1. The KO was so devastating that I thought Ellis was not going to be alive.

[Ambling Alp II]

Weren't you about two years old at the time of the fight?

[elmersalsa]

Weren't you about two years old at the time of the fight?

Yes! But, I saw the replay of the fight on ESPNClassic. It was a nasty KO! The KO that he gave the great Bob Foster was also brutal. Smokin'Joe decapitated both of them!

[Ambling Alp II]

So when you saw the fight on ESPN Classic many years after the fight, you thought that "Ellis was not going to be alive"?

[oogiebe]

So when you saw the fight on ESPN Classic many years after the fight, you thought that "Ellis was not going to be alive"?

Good point Alp. I remember thinking, OMG he killed him! It was brutal and the first time I saw such a vicious one shot KO.

[oogiebe]

So when you saw the fight on ESPN Classic many years after the fight, you thought that "Ellis was not going to be alive"?

Good point Alp. I remember thinking, OMG he killed him! It was brutal and the first time I saw such a vicious one shot KO.

Watching on ESPN Classic is not the same as having seen it first hand.

[Ambling Alp II]

All kidding aside, it was a vicious shot and it was amazing that Ellis somehow got up. Showed a lot of heart.

[elmersalsa]

Smokin'Joe was just too much for the likes of Jimmy Ellis, Jerry Quarry and the great Bob Foster. Everytime I see him throw that left hook, I cringed. Man, he had a hell of a left hook!