Anthony Joshua (WBA, IBF, WBO, IBO) vs. Deontay Wilder (WBC)

[Grilling Machine]

Wlad-AJ's an okay barometer for sales predictions, I think. I can only see this selling better than that, but no-one knows until it happens. Both men need to accept that they'll lose tons of money if it doesn't happen soon, regardless of who's the biggest individual draw.

For me it's neither of 'em, really. I think they're each as entertaining as their opposition is good, and they're likely to complement each other.

[TheLeprechaun]

Wlad-AJ's an okay barometer for sales predictions, I think. I can only see this selling better than that, but no-one knows until it happens. Both men need to accept that they'll lose tons of money if it doesn't happen soon, regardless of who's the biggest individual draw.

For me it's neither of 'em, really. I think they're each as entertaining as their opposition is good, and they're likely to complement each other.

Joshua should get 60% at the least, even on US soil. He is the a side in an overall sense but he isn't the a side in america. Wilder does bigger numbers there and is the american draw. The yanks will be tuning in to see an american undisputed champ and the firepower of both men is a big draw with the right hype and marketing. Joshua will be bringing his media trained worst interview in boxing personality over, wilder will be bringing the entertainment pre fight.

[Grilling Machine]

the firepower of both men is a big draw

wilder will be bringing the entertainment pre fight.

This and that, yeah. Joshua's definitely the brightest star right now, and for that I agree on 60:40, which makes $12.5m a worse deal for Wilder if it does more than 31.25. But like I say, who knows.

[dirk2686]

Wlad-AJ's an okay barometer for sales predictions, I think. I can only see this selling better than that, but no-one knows until it happens. Both men need to accept that they'll lose tons of money if it doesn't happen soon, regardless of who's the biggest individual draw.

For me it's neither of 'em, really. I think they're each as entertaining as their opposition is good, and they're likely to complement each other.

Joshua should get 60% at the least, even on US soil. He is the a side in an overall sense but he isn't the a side in america. Wilder does bigger numbers there and is the american draw. The yanks will be tuning in to see an american undisputed champ and the firepower of both men is a big draw with the right hype and marketing. Joshua will be bringing his media trained worst interview in boxing personality over, wilder will be bringing the entertainment pre fight.

If Wilder brings so much entertainment why does nobody watch his fights and nobody knows who he is in his own country?

This fight will be bigger than anything Wilder has done before. It'll still not be a big fight in the States.

[BigDoofus]

It'll still not be a big fight in the States.

You're just being silly now.

[jamamb]

Does it need to?

It'll be Wilder's biggest payday by a country mile either way, but supposing it did $50m and Joshua ended up with $37.5... The only precedent that feels likely to be comparable is AJ-Wlad, so how did that do?

I'm not expecting Mayweather-McGregor numbers, but I still expect this to sell really well. We'll see.

Wilder is doing the biggest numbers of the showtime crew at the moment. Wlad was hated in america for his absolutely shocking and embarrassing performances and tactics. He deserved to be stripped for the povetkin fight tactics and banned from the sport for the ibragimov insomnia curer, a fight that would be used to extract confessions from prisoners in Guantanamo bay if it wasn't classified as torture under the Geneva convention, as many wlad fights have. Using wlad aj as a barometer for this fight is downright stupid.

ya the showtime crew of non-ppv fighters. do you understand those guys fighting on regular showtime arent ppv stars in the us and arent coming close to massive massive millions? do you get that? do you know genuine big time usa draws of recent years actually fought on ppv regularly, and that wilder has NEVER done that? btw just last year broner had the biggest showtime number, thats the type of guy who is near the very top of the non-ppv usa list

and wlad did very good us tv numbers and even could sell almost 20k in attendence in the usa.. his usa numbers EASILY stack up to wilders. and you can say what you want about his style but in terms of the actual figures he was clearly a good draw in the usa, not to mention far bigger in europe then wilder. not to mention making WAY more money then wilder has.

whats stupid is blathering on about stuff like 'big punchers!' 'personality!' 'wlads boring!' without giving much of a damn about what the actual figures have been. they dont at all support that wilder vs aj is any time soon vastly outperforming wlad-aj

wilder has all these marketable qualitieis yet look at how thats actually translated to money. his biggest money fight was ortiz for a total pot of 2.6m between them, which is f@ck all for a wlad or aj fight. thats like pocket money to them.

[Terminator666]

What happened regarding the 50 million widers team offered?

[jamamb]

btw, just quick figure i found, vs bryant fricking jennings wlad did 1.6m average (over 1.7m peak) on usa tv and over 17,000 attendence in madison square garden in new york. this happened after the povetkin fight that was brought up.and keep in mind wlads also really big in europe, way bigger then wilder.

some ppl just seem utterly incapable of realizing that 'omg american + big punching + brash + looks the part' doesnt itself equal money. to know the money, you look at the money. thats the most important thing.

wilder has all these attributes ppl go on about making this a huge money fight, but where is his huge money? he already has those attributes doesnt he? yet the biggest money fight hes ever had was for like £1.7m split between him and his opponent. do ppl here think he should be making far more then this, and is simply a victim of truly horrific and theiving managment that is swindling him out of money he deserves?

in the usa small to medium sized latinos, pac, and floyd have been way bigger deals then wilder, even if hes koing everyone

[Terminator666]

Wilder should be grateful of his biggest purse by far here- he’s not getting it anywhere else— AJ can though

[BigDoofus]

ya the showtime crew of non-ppv fighters. do you understand those guys fighting on regular showtime arent ppv stars in the us and arent coming close to massive massive millions? do you get that? do you know genuine big time usa draws of recent years actually fought on ppv regularly, and that wilder has NEVER done that? btw just last year broner had the biggest showtime number, thats the type of guy who is near the very top of the non-ppv usa list

and wlad did very good us tv numbers and even could sell almost 20k in attendence in the usa.. his usa numbers EASILY stack up to wilders. and you can say what you want about his style but in terms of the actual figures he was clearly a good draw in the usa, not to mention far bigger in europe then wilder. not to mention making WAY more money then wilder has.

whats stupid is blathering on about stuff like 'big punchers!' 'personality!' 'wlads boring!' without giving much of a damn about what the actual figures have been. they dont at all support that wilder vs aj is any time soon vastly outperforming wlad-aj

wilder has all these marketable qualitieis yet look at how thats actually translated to money. his biggest money fight was ortiz for a total pot of 2.6m between them, which is f@ck all for a wlad or aj fight. thats like pocket money to them.

Yet Eddie Hearn admits there's more money for this fight in the States.

[jamamb]

eddie hearn also says this fight does like 40m

i just have to lol at guys who yell 'idiot!' and 'stupid!' and 'brain washed by eddie!' when ppl wont buy into the idea that wilder--a guy with a career high 2.1m usd/£1.5m purse, a guy whose never been on ppv--adds tens and tens and tens of millions more on top of what wlad vs aj split.

not right now he doesnt. maybe by some chance hell become this massive money generating star some ppl want to think he is. but he isnt right now, and this fight isnt going to absolutely blast away the wlad-aj numbers if it happens soon.

[TheLeprechaun]

Bringing up Wlad vs Jennings doing the best numbers for Wlad is making my point but I don't expect common sense to prevail. People tuned in to see an American heavyweight champ. People didn't tune in to see Wlad Povetkin, that did shitty ratings. 1.6 million for wlad vs jennings and 500k for wlad vs povetkin.

As an aside, consider using easier to read style jam. I try not to read your posts because your grammar is offputting. I do skim through them the odd time.

[jamamb]

wlad-fury, on in the afternoon in the usa (afternoon numbers are usually lower then evening), happening in germany, still averaged over 1m viewers in the us. thats an excellent number for an afternoon fight.

wlad in his previous usa fight before jennings , vs a non american, sold about 15k attendence in madison square garden. very few american fighters, even top ones, do that. you wont do that if your not a solid draw.

there had been other usa fighters fighting for titles, coming nowhere near consistently putting up the same figures regularly. wilder is an american who has been fighting for titles vs a number of american opponents btw, and yet we dont see him getting any sort of superstar level paydays or numbers. and of course the numbers wlad did vs jennings went well above and beyond most numbers for title fights with us heavies. it wasnt just an american thing.

wlad was doing good usa numbers consistently with or without american opponents. theres a reason he had american tv deals for so long. add to it that he was vastly bigger in europe then wilder. his tv numbers there were massive.

the biggest money pot for any wilder fight is 2.5m us dollars vs ortiz. that is wlad's kids allowance. that is nothing for aj. that is not what someone generates if they truly can add on tens and tens and tens of millions to what wlad and aj split.

[dirk2686]

It'll still not be a big fight in the States.

You're just being silly now.

Big is a relative term but I don't see it. Floyd (absolutely clearly the PPV number 1 over the last decade and a half) v Hatton (clearly biggest British name pre-Joshua post-Lewis, who had already fought three back to back fights in the States) did under 1m buys in America.

For this to be the sort of fight with 50m paid to one guy there needs to be some clear indication that it'll sell - and sell more than Mayweather Hatton. But all you or anyone else can say on the matter is 'heavyweights! Knock outs! Drama! Big punchers!'

You can't point to Wilder picking up plenty of buys because he doesn't have any. You can't point to his massive purses because they've been the opposite. You can't even point to big crowds given fewer people watched him against Ortiz than Wlad v Ibragimov.

And whilst Joshua is massive he's barely been to America let alone fought there.

[dirk2686]

Bringing up Wlad vs Jennings doing the best numbers for Wlad is making my point but I don't expect common sense to prevail. People tuned in to see an American heavyweight champ. People didn't tune in to see Wlad Povetkin, that did shitty ratings. 1.6 million for wlad vs jennings and 500k for wlad vs povetkin.

How many watched Wlad Ibragimov (US based fight, in New York) compared to Wilder Ortiz?

Also - nobody is saying that Joshua Wilder won't be Wilder's biggest fight in the States. It almost certainly will be. The question is will it be big enough to justify 50m paydays. I don't see any evidence of that whatsoever.

[BigDoofus]

It'll still not be a big fight in the States.

You're just being silly now.

Big is a relative term but I don't see it. Floyd (absolutely clearly the PPV number 1 over the last decade and a half) v Hatton (clearly biggest British name pre-Joshua post-Lewis, who had already fought three back to back fights in the States) did under 1m buys in America.

For this to be the sort of fight with 50m paid to one guy there needs to be some clear indication that it'll sell - and sell more than Mayweather Hatton. But all you or anyone else can say on the matter is 'heavyweights! Knock outs! Drama! Big punchers!'

You can't point to Wilder picking up plenty of buys because he doesn't have any. You can't point to his massive purses because they've been the opposite. You can't even point to big crowds given fewer people watched him against Ortiz than Wlad v Ibragimov.

And whilst Joshua is massive he's barely been to America let alone fought there.

You're talking in riddles. "It's not a big fight in USA" but "Joshua is massive"!
Joshua's own promoter says it makes more money in the States.

[tiny_acres]

You're just being silly now.

Big is a relative term but I don't see it. Floyd (absolutely clearly the PPV number 1 over the last decade and a half) v Hatton (clearly biggest British name pre-Joshua post-Lewis, who had already fought three back to back fights in the States) did under 1m buys in America.

For this to be the sort of fight with 50m paid to one guy there needs to be some clear indication that it'll sell - and sell more than Mayweather Hatton. But all you or anyone else can say on the matter is 'heavyweights! Knock outs! Drama! Big punchers!'

You can't point to Wilder picking up plenty of buys because he doesn't have any. You can't point to his massive purses because they've been the opposite. You can't even point to big crowds given fewer people watched him against Ortiz than Wlad v Ibragimov.

And whilst Joshua is massive he's barely been to America let alone fought there.

You're talking in riddles. "It's not a big fight in USA" but "Joshua is massive"!
Joshua's own promoter says it makes more money in the States.

I've already learned never use Hearns own words to justify anything on this forum.
You will just be told it's misconstrued or hyperbole.

[jamamb]

tiny you post over and over about how hearn is a dishonest snake but of course if he says anything that could remotely be construed as supporting what you want to be true then suddenly your all for what he has to say and of course hes being right

and hearn also says the fight does like 40m to split, so take that for what its worth. ppl keep missing the point a lot, its not that this wouldnt still do well or that no one would be interested in the us or whatever, but that its not a fight that is gonna get the type of attention that makes it generate so much money that 50m to aj and presumably more then 12.5m to wilder is in line with what the fight actually makes. nah, its not that big now at all

ppl are right to think about the numbers and be skeptical, especially when the 50m comes with all these mystery stipulations only to be revealed after

[TheLeprechaun]

Bringing up Wlad vs Jennings doing the best numbers for Wlad is making my point but I don't expect common sense to prevail. People tuned in to see an American heavyweight champ. People didn't tune in to see Wlad Povetkin, that did shitty ratings. 1.6 million for wlad vs jennings and 500k for wlad vs povetkin.

How many watched Wlad Ibragimov (US based fight, in New York) compared to Wilder Ortiz?

Also - nobody is saying that Joshua Wilder won't be Wilder's biggest fight in the States. It almost certainly will be. The question is will it be big enough to justify 50m paydays. I don't see any evidence of that whatsoever.

Why don't you do the research yourself on how many watched wlad ibragimov? hint, it didn't do half of what wilder ortiz did on showtime. You don't see any evidence that the fight justifies 50m paydays but haymon and finkel do. You and other forum accountants seem to know more about this side of the business than Al Haymon? Respect.

[jamamb]

why does wilder make so comparatively little if he can push this to be like 30m greater of a split then wlad and aj had? i mean hes american, ktfo puncher etc, but hes never had a fight do a total pot of 2.6m usd

genuinely curious about it , a question for the ppl who think hes got some massive money generating power here. is he being swindled or what?

btw i was looking at tv and attendence numbers and it seems maybe wilder is comparable to golovkin, although ggg even prior to canelo made bigger purses then wilder has.

[dirk2686]

Bringing up Wlad vs Jennings doing the best numbers for Wlad is making my point but I don't expect common sense to prevail. People tuned in to see an American heavyweight champ. People didn't tune in to see Wlad Povetkin, that did shitty ratings. 1.6 million for wlad vs jennings and 500k for wlad vs povetkin.

How many watched Wlad Ibragimov (US based fight, in New York) compared to Wilder Ortiz?

Also - nobody is saying that Joshua Wilder won't be Wilder's biggest fight in the States. It almost certainly will be. The question is will it be big enough to justify 50m paydays. I don't see any evidence of that whatsoever.

Why don't you do the research yourself on how many watched wlad ibragimov? hint, it didn't do half of what wilder ortiz did on showtime. You don't see any evidence that the fight justifies 50m paydays but haymon and finkel do. You and other forum accountants seem to know more about this side of the business than Al Haymon? Respect.

Why do you think this fight justifies 50m paydays? And why do you think 12.5m (six times Wilder's pay day high) is a joke?

[jamamb]

ya thats the thing, i mean you can say its bigger then wlad-aj, but you got a hell of a ways to go to reach 50m purse level. how exactly does it get there?

if the 50m is legit i cant see it being anything other then an overpayment, although wouldnt be the first time haymons side has done that. though not on that level!

[TheLeprechaun]

How many watched Wlad Ibragimov (US based fight, in New York) compared to Wilder Ortiz?

Also - nobody is saying that Joshua Wilder won't be Wilder's biggest fight in the States. It almost certainly will be. The question is will it be big enough to justify 50m paydays. I don't see any evidence of that whatsoever.

Why don't you do the research yourself on how many watched wlad ibragimov? hint, it didn't do half of what wilder ortiz did on showtime. You don't see any evidence that the fight justifies 50m paydays but haymon and finkel do. You and other forum accountants seem to know more about this side of the business than Al Haymon? Respect.

Why do you think this fight justifies 50m paydays? And why do you think 12.5m (six times Wilder's pay day high) is a joke?

The answer to both is because I have the common sense to be able to holistically look at what the fight can generate and my head isn't up Joshua and Hearns ass.

[dirk2686]

Ok. So for the fight to generate 50m paydays it'll need to do very big business. Bearing in mind Mayweather Hatton generated take home 25m and 10m of which 11m and 6m was a guarantee.

So you're saying Joshua alone would be getting a guarantee of almost three times the guarantee combined for Mayweather Hatton, and the fight would generate so much additional interest that Wilder would be able to look at the 12.5m offer as 'ridiculous?'

I mean, Joshua's guarantee would be only just under the combined guarantee for Mayweather Canelo. It would have to be absolute massive. Where is the evidence that it would be ffs.

[TheLeprechaun]

Ok. So for the fight to generate 50m paydays it'll need to do very big business. Bearing in mind Mayweather Hatton generated take home 25m and 10m of which 11m and 6m was a guarantee.

So you're saying Joshua alone would be getting a guarantee of almost three times the guarantee combined for Mayweather Hatton, and the fight would generate so much additional interest that Wilder would be able to look at the 12.5m offer as 'ridiculous?'

I mean, Joshua's guarantee would be only just under the combined guarantee for Mayweather Canelo. It would have to be absolute massive. Where is the evidence that it would be ffs.

Do you think I think there is any point in giving you a serious reply?