Luis Ortiz vs. Dillian Whyte (WBC final eliminator)

[candyslim]

It is actually funny that so many here are surprised and upset that Dillon Whyte is not being treated fair by an ABC org? They do crap like this fairly often.

Surprised? No.

Upset? Yes.

You don't need to be upset for a boxer. They fight and earn for a living. They get what they get. Yes, may be mistreated by an org, but that's nothing new.

Corruption has been around forever that doesn't make it ok. If you just shrug your shoulders because something shitty has been around forever, we'd still be at the mercy of smallpox..

[dickbelden]

the KING KONG vs WHYTE fight is expected in what month ?

[bigman1968]

Two Top10 boxers in the ring - don’t happen often!
So I don’t care the politics around...I like it-)

[candyslim]

No it's a great match I can't deny that but I'm a fan of Dillian Whyte, I think I worry for him more than he does. Dillian is a good fighter not a great one, and his heart is enormous but his quality isn't. It's because of his willingness to fight anybody, anytime that he is a particular favourite of mine.

People underrate him for struggling against Chisora but Dereck was at his best that night and 100% motivated to rip Dillian's head off. He wasn't the same lacklustre, just pleased to be here. Chisora beaten by Pulev and by Kabayel.

Helenius was once the next big thing and still regarded as a potential banana skin for whyte, in fact he had Dill on stiff legs in the first or second round and I was quite alarmed. It turned out to be a clear win in a poor fight as Helenius went into survival mode having allegedly hurt his hand. Whyte got little credit for the win.

Next up Lucas Browne. Undefeated former WBA champion who came back from the brink to beat the local hero and champion in Chechniya. I saw Whyte/Browne as a 50/50 dangerous match for Dill, same as I'm looking at Ortiz. Of course now that Whyte poleaxed him, he's just a fat, old Aussie beach-bum and Whyte gets little credit.

If he stops Luis Ortiz people will be saying "What did you expect? He's officially 39 and possibly nearer 50 than 40. He suffered a devastating loss to Wilder, and he's not the same fighter". Whyte will get no credit and no probably no title shot either and people will still be saying "What has Whyte done to deserve a title-shot?"

Of course he could lose to Ortiz and Sulaiman and Haymon can breathe a collective sigh of relief, slap each other on the back for getting another potentially dangerous opponent for Deontay removed from the immediate picture. Job done.

[Deleted_Scenes]

Two Top10 boxers in the ring - don’t happen often!
So I don’t care the politics around...I like it-)

It won't happen. If the winner was guaranteed a shot at Wilder next, then ok, but Hearn isn't going to bend over for the WBC just for Whyte to become 'second mandatory' (meaning the earliest he'll get a title shot is late 2019).

Whyte will fight Pulev instead, to be the immediate IBF mandatory.

[jamesmcdonnell]

id be surprised if whyte beats ortiz. i think hes getting ironed out.

[candyslim]

Ortiz will (would) be very dangerous in the first half of the fight. He could stop Whyte early on. I thought Dillian looked very vulnerable in the first (or was it the second) round against Helenius. I expected a stoppage was seconds away, and I thought then he would be easy meat for Deontay Wilder. He deserves his chance though, and shouldn't have to go through the man who only fought Wilder last month !!!?

If Dill is still around by the halfway point I would expect his youth and vigour to begin to replace Ortiz's advantages in technique and experience as the main factors dictating the fight. Ortiz hasn't looked too scary a proposition since the Jennings fight, and I can see this going either way - Ortiz early or Whyte late.

[candyslim]

I think it's clear Ortiz is not what he was, but Pulev is 37 and it's been a while since he fought anyone good enough to test whether he still justifies his lofty ranking. And while i'm not saying his injury wasn't genuine, he didn't seem exactly gutted to have to pull out of the Joshua fight did he? I think Ortiz is at this stage retaining more ambition than Pulev.

I think prime for prime they both beat Whyte as he is today, not forgetting that Whyte is an improving fighter learning as he goes. He may be a way short of his peak yet.

The thing is Joshua and Whyte might not like each other very much, but they are both with Eddie Hearn and they both want to fight each other again, only not now. Dillian would like to face AJ as a fellow champion but with Sulaiman doing Haymon's bidding, it doesn't appear he will get a chance at the only belt Joshua doesn't hold.

Sure he could fight Pulev and probably outwork him, but earning the IBF mandatory slot doesn't really advance his prospects. Joshua v Whyte II happens regardless and the mandatory earns him 25% guaranteed but against Joshua de'd probably be looking for 40/60 whether he's mandatory or not.

If I'm Whyte I think I fight Ortiz anyway. What he has got that's better?

I'd still sue the fukcers though.

[Tony1244]

Very tough fight to guess at. I guessed Whyte by decision, but I could have guessed anything on this one.

Unlike Wilder-Breazeale, which is easy. Wilder KO.

[Rob3_142]

I think Whyte would win by KO in the early rounds, Luis Ortiz is degrading fast.

I actually rate Pulev much higher then Luis Ortiz right now, I think Pulev might actually win against Whyte.

Somehow I still think Whyte will fight Pulev, since their fight for that belt isn't corrupt, like the WBC. Even if the WBC wouldn't lie this time (which they probably actually do all over again, they are known for that, but we would only find out by next year), Whyte would still need to wait 18 months before he can fight Wilder.

I think the world should ignore the WBC from now on, I can't take the belt serious any more in every case, too much corruption and cheating to protect whoever they like.

If I was the adviser of any boxer out there, I would advise to fight for other belts, unless you're part of the corrupt team ofcourse, like Stiverne and so forth.

I'm not really sure what you are referencing to that makes you believe that Pulev is ahead of Ortiz.

We do we know about both fighters in their current status? Well we know that Ortiz almost stopped a 40-0 Deontay Wilder, and demonstrated a good level of skill, footwork and movement, at least in the first 6 rounds.

What about Pulev? Well he beat Derek Chisora two years ago, but since then, 12 rounds with Kingpin Kevin Johnson which is less than awe inspiring. So what current form tells you that Pulev is in any condition to really rubbing shoulders with someone that went life and death with Deontay Wilder?

[Syntax Error]

I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for Whyte.

How many 'final eliminators' is he expected to have before he actually gets a shot at the title?

Luckily, Dillian is game & he'd fight the Devil if he had to, but it does seem unfair to expect him to have big fight like this when he is the supposed No 1 contender.

[Rob3_142]

I think Whyte would win by KO in the early rounds, Luis Ortiz is degrading fast.

I actually rate Pulev much higher then Luis Ortiz right now, I think Pulev might actually win against Whyte.

Somehow I still think Whyte will fight Pulev, since their fight for that belt isn't corrupt, like the WBC. Even if the WBC wouldn't lie this time (which they probably actually do all over again, they are known for that, but we would only find out by next year), Whyte would still need to wait 18 months before he can fight Wilder.

I think the world should ignore the WBC from now on, I can't take the belt serious any more in every case, too much corruption and cheating to protect whoever they like.

If I was the adviser of any boxer out there, I would advise to fight for other belts, unless you're part of the corrupt team ofcourse, like Stiverne and so forth.

I'm not really sure what you are referencing to that makes you believe that Pulev is ahead of Ortiz.

We do we know about both fighters in their current status? Well we know that Ortiz almost stopped a 40-0 Deontay Wilder, and demonstrated a good level of skill, footwork and movement, at least in the first 6 rounds.

What about Pulev? Well he beat Derek Chisora two years ago, but since then, 12 rounds with Kingpin Kevin Johnson which is less than awe inspiring. So what current form tells you that Pulev is in any condition to really rubbing shoulders with someone that went life and death with Deontay Wilder?

Well oké, maybe I'm wrong. In my mind the Pulev vs Chisora fight was more recent then it actually was. It's a shame that the undefeated guys didn't fight the Pulev's back then, except for AJ who loves to fight all the top guys but often got ducked. Now they still walk around with only Klitschko as a loss and still less or more deserve another fight untill they lose.

For me, Ortiz is downgrading fast, just like Stiverne did. I think if Wilder vs Ortiz happened one year earlier that Ortiz would have won. Somehow if it happens again next year Wilder will win within 5 rounds. I haven't seen real downgrading with Pulev yet, somehow he hasn't really fought anyone since Chisora I'd have to admit.

But aren't you speculating pretty hard there? Ortiz to beat Wilder 12 months ago, because...? Listen, age catches up with everyone eventually, but to compare Ortiz to Stiverne is pretty insulting and unfair to Ortiz.

You can't see 'downgrading' in a fighter unless he fights someone (of course you can still get found out by fringe fighters, like Chisora was against Kabayel), so we will unfortunately have to wait until Pulev gets back in the ring, which when that will be is anyone's best guess. I guess we'll have to see if the IBF order Pulev and Whyte as a final eliminator or not.

[candyslim]

I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for Whyte.

How many 'final eliminators' is he expected to have before he actually gets a shot at the title?

Luckily, Dillian is game & he'd fight the Devil if he had to, but it does seem unfair to expect him to have big fight like this when he is the supposed No 1 contender.

Only another four and he'll be there !

Seriously, I couldn't agree with you more. Another stitch-up by Al Haymon and his poodle, Mauricio Sulemain.

[Ruthless-RKO]

I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for Whyte.

How many 'final eliminators' is he expected to have before he actually gets a shot at the title?

Luckily, Dillian is game & he'd fight the Devil if he had to, but it does seem unfair to expect him to have big fight like this when he is the supposed No 1 contender.

Only another four and he'll be there !

Seriously, I couldn't agree with you more. Another stitch-up by Al Haymon and his poodle, Mauricio Sulemain.

He's only going to lose anyway..

[Rob3_142]

I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for Whyte.

How many 'final eliminators' is he expected to have before he actually gets a shot at the title?

Luckily, Dillian is game & he'd fight the Devil if he had to, but it does seem unfair to expect him to have big fight like this when he is the supposed No 1 contender.

Only another four and he'll be there !

Seriously, I couldn't agree with you more. Another stitch-up by Al Haymon and his poodle, Mauricio Sulemain.

He's only going to lose anyway..

Can I have next week's lottery numbers please?

[Ruthless-RKO]

Only another four and he'll be there !

Seriously, I couldn't agree with you more. Another stitch-up by Al Haymon and his poodle, Mauricio Sulemain.

He's only going to lose anyway..

Can I have next week's lottery numbers please?

Would you give away winning numbers?

[Rob3_142]

He's only going to lose anyway..

Can I have next week's lottery numbers please?

Would you give away winning numbers?

Can I have 4 of them?

[candyslim]

I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for Whyte.

How many 'final eliminators' is he expected to have before he actually gets a shot at the title?

Luckily, Dillian is game & he'd fight the Devil if he had to, but it does seem unfair to expect him to have big fight like this when he is the supposed No 1 contender.

Only another four and he'll be there !

Seriously, I couldn't agree with you more. Another stitch-up by Al Haymon and his poodle, Mauricio Sulemain.

He's only going to lose anyway..

You may well be right Ruthless, but he's more than earned his chance to make you eat those words wouldn't you say?

[Evander]

This fight is hot if they can make it.

[Evander]

A win for either would vault themselves into a Heavyweight Title shot.

[Rob3_142]

Well oké, maybe I'm wrong. In my mind the Pulev vs Chisora fight was more recent then it actually was. It's a shame that the undefeated guys didn't fight the Pulev's back then, except for AJ who loves to fight all the top guys but often got ducked. Now they still walk around with only Klitschko as a loss and still less or more deserve another fight untill they lose.

For me, Ortiz is downgrading fast, just like Stiverne did. I think if Wilder vs Ortiz happened one year earlier that Ortiz would have won. Somehow if it happens again next year Wilder will win within 5 rounds. I haven't seen real downgrading with Pulev yet, somehow he hasn't really fought anyone since Chisora I'd have to admit.

But aren't you speculating pretty hard there? Ortiz to beat Wilder 12 months ago, because...? Listen, age catches up with everyone eventually, but to compare Ortiz to Stiverne is pretty insulting and unfair to Ortiz.

You can't see 'downgrading' in a fighter unless he fights someone (of course you can still get found out by fringe fighters, like Chisora was against Kabayel), so we will unfortunately have to wait until Pulev gets back in the ring, which when that will be is anyone's best guess. I guess we'll have to see if the IBF order Pulev and Whyte as a final eliminator or not.

Well, that same Stiverne is ranked in the top 15 of the WBC for the longest period of time of all the boxers that are ranked by the WBC right? So either, the WBC is corrupt and Stiverne is indeed not that good, or he is good and it shouldn't be an offence for Luis Ortiz.
On top of that, if you look at Luis Ortiz his recent fights, he made a good performance against Jennings, a reasoneble one against Thompson, an average one against Scott, a bad one against David Allen and a terrible performance against Wilder, now what will he do next? I currently rate Joe Joyce for example higher then Luis Ortiz.

Which demonstrates how wide of the mark your opinions really are. I mean I really do not know what you base your opinions on! Joyce has had three pro fights

And yes, of course the WBC is corrupt, as many posters have alluded to in numerous threads. If Breazeale is Wilder's next defence, that will be 8 out of 9 fighters from the same stable. And considering how big the world is, it looks a little suspicious. I mean come on man, think about it. January 2015 and Wilder beats Stiverne to gain the WBC crown. After the defeat, it takes Stiverne 11 months to get back in the ring, as he laboured to a win against journeyman Derric Rossy, someone barely inside the world top 100. That was enough to install Stiverne back into mandatory position, two years later.

Throw into the mix the recent shenanigans with Whyte and his 'mandatory' position. I think you have a very suspicious looking governing body.

[Enlightened-One]

I currently rate Joe Joyce for example higher then Luis Ortiz.

Are my eyes deceiving me? Has someone actually written that?

Seriously!?!?

Joe Joyce has had three fights and it's not as if he's the heavyweight equivalent of Vasyl Lomachenko.

[oogiebe]

Not the best option. A one, who has just lost his opportunity to become a champion pretty fair, receive a chance to get another such opportunity. And Ortiz will most likely get it, because he will knock Whyte out. The only way for Whyte to win is to somehow survive for the second half of the fight and activate there. Furthermore, there was a talk about Pulev vs Whyte, so that's something strange.

I agree. Whyte hasn't been anything but a good-luck recipient of a shallow HW division.

[candyslim]

But aren't you speculating pretty hard there? Ortiz to beat Wilder 12 months ago, because...? Listen, age catches up with everyone eventually, but to compare Ortiz to Stiverne is pretty insulting and unfair to Ortiz.

You can't see 'downgrading' in a fighter unless he fights someone (of course you can still get found out by fringe fighters, like Chisora was against Kabayel), so we will unfortunately have to wait until Pulev gets back in the ring, which when that will be is anyone's best guess. I guess we'll have to see if the IBF order Pulev and Whyte as a final eliminator or not.

Well, that same Stiverne is ranked in the top 15 of the WBC for the longest period of time of all the boxers that are ranked by the WBC right? So either, the WBC is corrupt and Stiverne is indeed not that good, or he is good and it shouldn't be an offence for Luis Ortiz.
On top of that, if you look at Luis Ortiz his recent fights, he made a good performance against Jennings, a reasoneble one against Thompson, an average one against Scott, a bad one against David Allen and a terrible performance against Wilder, now what will he do next? I currently rate Joe Joyce for example higher then Luis Ortiz.

Which demonstrates how wide of the mark your opinions really are. I mean I really do not know what you base your opinions on! Joyce has had three pro fights

And yes, of course the WBC is corrupt, as many posters have alluded to in numerous threads. If Breazeale is Wilder's next defence, that will be 8 out of 9 fighters from the same stable. And considering how big the world is, it looks a little suspicious. I mean come on man, think about it. January 2015 and Wilder beats Stiverne to gain the WBC crown. After the defeat, it takes Stiverne 11 months to get back in the ring, as he laboured to a win against journeyman Derric Rossy, someone barely inside the world top 100. That was enough to install Stiverne back into mandatory position, two years later.

Throw into the mix the recent shenanigans with Whyte and his 'mandatory' position. I think you have a very suspicious looking governing body.

'Tiz a wicked slur. If you're suggesting that Mauricio Sulaiman is the property of Al Haymon it's just not true. He shares ownership with Don King

[Enlightened-One]

"Hearn will appeal WBC’s decision to order Dillian Whyte vs. Luis Ortiz"

Eddie Hearn says he plans on appealing the World Boxing Council’s decision to order a fight between #1 WBC Dillian Whyte and #3 Luis ‘King Kong’ Ortiz for the second mandatory position to get a title shot against WBC heavyweight champion Deontay ‘Bronze Bomber’ Wilder

Hearn wants the WBC to install the 29-year-old Whyte (23-1, 17 KOs) as Wilder’s mandatory so that he can get a title shot straightaway rather than having to go through Ortiz (28-1, 24 KOs).

“We’re going to appeal that. [WBC president]" Mauricio Sulaiman said he would talk about it this week, and maybe post a resolution,” Hearn said to skysports.com.

"Hearn expects to complete Dillian Whyte vs. Kubrat Pulev deal for July 28"

Dillian Whyte (23-1, 17 KOs) will be fighting former heavyweight world title challenger Kubrat Pulev (25-1, 13 KOs) next on July 28 in an IBF heavyweight title eliminator, as Matchroom Boxing promoter Eddie Hearn is looking to finish that deal before the purse bid a week from now.