Why do so many ppl think Brook is Done at the World Level???

[ChinCheck358]

Also why does he get so much hate? I don't know about here - but coming from boxing scene - he gets hated on so much, and people act like he never has a chance to make any sort of noise on the world stage again.

I know he had two brutal back-to-back losses, but they were to arguably two top 5-8 PfP guys (I wouldn't rank Spence in Top-11 PfP just yet, but you can argue he definitely COULD belong there, and could beat people ranked ahead of him - justifiably so based on resume - like Thurman, and Crawford).

Anyway, I think Brook deserves MAD props for taking his mandatory against Spence; he could have easily said "after going up in weight my body/frame can simply not boil back down to 147 without potential health risks." He would have been given a little flack, but really, after seeing how large he is, it would have been a viable reason to vacate.

Finally - do ya'll think he can regroup and win another title, and/or have some wins against world class guys at 154?? He should probably stay as far away from Hurd as possible - as he'll likely outgrow 154 in another fight or two anyway.

Thanks for any answers kind sirs!

[gilgamesh]

I could see Brook picking up another title at 154. Particularly if faced with somebody like a Sadam Ali. I think people think he's "done" at the world level more because of the Orbital bone breaks than the KO losses. People probably just think he doesn't have a bone structure that can hold up to the sport, and perhaps he doesn't, but he certainly handled himself well, and was still competitive in his 2 losses so I think it's probably a case of Boxing fans jumping the gun a little, and reacting a bit too strongly to a couple of losses.

They do that sometimes...fans that is.

[lazboy]

He’s a good fighter. Not sure how he’ll go at 154 with a monster like Hurd. Have tremendous respect for him fighting Spence after fighting Golovkin. I’ve read it on here about him quitting in the Spence fight. Whoever holds that against him is pathetic. His face was broken and his face was broken in the previous fight. He has a family, he has his own health to think of and he did as well as he could against both the middleweight and welterweight respective monsters.

Now for comparison if you’re going to complain about a quitter, I fully endorse hanging cables on Rigondeaux. His hand was bruised....he didn’t take nearly the punishment Brook did. Rigo quit, Brook was seriously damaged.

[Stuarty]

The manner of his defeats will make folk think less of him. Was a good fighter!

[boxing_rocks]

Because he was Golovkined and then Spenced. Nobody can survive that.

[thevamp]

Probably lack of world level competition to gauge him by.

We really only count Porter, GGG and Spence.

So he's 1-2. And the Brook win was so long ago, he needs to renew peoples opinion.

[chinarich]

I don’t really get the hate for Brook, I think he’s a true fighter and he can certainly still pick up another title...

[dirk2686]

It became a bit tiresome following Brook for a whole. At the time British boxers tended to be getting pushed pretty quickly but he constantly seemed to be a bit of a nearly man. Seemed to take forever to get the title shot. Then when that happened his opponents after were quite poor until Golovkin.

I know he was after the Khan fight or a big money pay day but Dan -Gavin - Bizier was always going to invite some criticism for a world champion.

[Deleted_Scenes]

I know he was after the Khan fight or a big money pay day but Dan -Gavin - Bizier was always going to invite some criticism for a world champion.

On the surface, it's not the strongest run of fights, but it is worth noting Dan and Bizier were both IBF mandatories (a total joke in Bizier's case, as he'd lost to Dan not long before). He also got his leg slashed in the middle of that run, and wasn't sure he'd even fight again.

The Gavin fight didn't need to get made, I agree, but I think if Tenerife never happened and he'd been able to get some momentum going, he would have at least faced a couple of Jessie Vargas, Diego Chaves, or even Tim Bradley level opponents. That wouldn't have been so bad, considering a lot of the welters were a bit reluctant to challenge themselves at the time - preferring to keep winning easy and hope to cash in on the Mayweather sweepstakes.

The Porter fight was a long time ago, but I don't think Brook is done at the top level yet. I can't see him beating Charlo, and although I think he'd school Hurd, I think Hurd would eventually catch up with him, but against anyone else at 154 he's no worse than even money.

[candyslim]

He’s a good fighter. Not sure how he’ll go at 154 with a monster like Hurd. Have tremendous respect for him fighting Spence after fighting Golovkin. I’ve read it on here about him quitting in the Spence fight. Whoever holds that against him is pathetic. His face was broken and his face was broken in the previous fight. He has a family, he has his own health to think of and he did as well as he could against both the middleweight and welterweight respective monsters.

Now for comparison if you’re going to complain about a quitter, I fully endorse hanging cables on Rigondeaux. His hand was bruised....he didn’t take nearly the punishment Brook did. Rigo quit, Brook was seriously damaged.

Good post Lazboy. I agree with all of that.

Because he was Golovkined and then Spenced. Nobody can survive that.

But I think this is the answer to the actual question (why do so many ....)

I'd just add - Also two emphatic losses back to back even they were against truly elite (sorry Greg) opposition are going to influence people's perception.

[Thomastearns]

I don’t really get the hate for Brook, I think he’s a true fighter and he can certainly still pick up another title...

There's never been a boxer universally loved, ever. I bet even Dempsey, Louis, Marciano all had their share of critics.

In Brook's case maybe it's a case of too much democracy in this social media age, or maybe not. How much of a boxing fan are you to hate on a guy who went in with both Golovkin and Spence in succession? I dare say he'd do it again.

No fighter who steps into a boxing ring lacks courage, but Kell's almost too brave for his own good. Like Danny Jacobs he too was staring death in the face, in his case after the enormous loss of blood from a stabbing.

[KiwiRider]

I like him.
1, he always comes in fit
2, he has heart and courage
3, he is good to watch and can box and bang
4, he took on the GGG monster when he didn't have to
5, he isn't as big an arse as some

[Mexi-Box]

He took years out of his boxing career by fighting Golovkin, further he even did worse fighting Spence at 147 lbs. He shouldn't have moved back down. On the plus side, 154 lbs. isn't very deep. Really, Hurd is a good fighter, but he'd be ineffective at 160 lbs. compared to being dominant at 154 lbs.

[ValMar]

Honestly, he has never defeated any top level fighter (his W against Porter is very questionable).

[BitPlayer]

I like him, I just think he seems to have had something taken out of him.

[jamamb]

Honestly, he has never defeated any top level fighter (his W against Porter is very questionable).

brook clearly beat porter, laughable that anyone would think totally ineffective agression and wrestling shouldve won it for porter, he hardly landed a clean punch all night. even his mauling was pretty poor and he couldnt really outmuscle brook.

[SFW]

I think those 70+ clinches certainly helped Brook get his one and only top level win over Porter. But yes he did win clear, in my estimation. Porter had a belt was never the best at 147lbs, so even that win wasn't all it got made out to be. Then Eddie ruined his career with Golovkin. Kell himself destroyed what was left by arrogantly ignoring every reason to move up. Got his face broken again, talking all that stupid shit about chocolate brownies there must be a whole store somewhere full of Kell's unused brownies. Maybe it's his mouth that turns people off, never heard anyone talk so much shit with a record padded beyond belief. He's a good fighter but his record makes Calzaghe look like Sugar Ray Robinson. Not to mention he was a massive weight drainer, enjoyed that size advantage for a long time liked fighting smaller guys. No such luck anymore. Not likely he wins a title at 154 unless it's a weaker opponent. The bad beatings shortened his career and so did the career long weight draining. He is more like a what could have been type, because he had the talent no doubt. It'd be nice to see him get one more good win and be done. Lucky he isn't blind already, nobody wants to see that happen.

[Lackeos]

I think that either side of the debate has some validity. Brook might be done at the world level, especially if he fractures his eye socket a third time. However, I think the side that believes in Brook is likely the more legit side. The reason why I say this is a) his loss to Golovkin is extremely easy to forgive b) he fought well against Spence and c) he hasn't lost to or drawn against any non-elite opponents.

[TheBeast]

As far as offensive talents, he is still up there... but brutal losses for fighters of his style, plus dangerous eye injuries can end careers pretty quick.

[Wales]

Anyone who thinks Eddie Hearn is all about “milking his cash cow” need only look at the fighters he put Brook in with. Brook against Dann and Frankie Gavin were both sold as PPV fights in the U.K. ! Hearn could’ve continued in that vein with Brook yet instead he puts Kell in with GGG , then in his next fight in with Spence !

Crazy

Brook has only beat one world level fighter and all roads for Brook now lead to a well paid stadium fight in the U.K. against Khan.

[Mexi-Box]

I think those 70+ clinches certainly helped Brook get his one and only top level win over Porter. But yes he did win clear, in my estimation. Porter had a belt was never the best at 147lbs, so even that win wasn't all it got made out to be. Then Eddie ruined his career with Golovkin. Kell himself destroyed what was left by arrogantly ignoring every reason to move up. Got his face broken again, talking all that stupid poo about chocolate brownies there must be a whole store somewhere full of Kell's unused brownies. Maybe it's his mouth that turns people off, never heard anyone talk so much poo with a record padded beyond belief. He's a good fighter but his record makes Calzaghe look like Sugar Ray Robinson. Not to mention he was a massive weight drainer, enjoyed that size advantage for a long time liked fighting smaller guys. No such luck anymore. Not likely he wins a title at 154 unless it's a weaker opponent. The bad beatings shortened his career and so did the career long weight draining. He is more like a what could have been type, because he had the talent no doubt. It'd be nice to see him get one more good win and be done. Lucky he isn't blind already, nobody wants to see that happen.

He pretty much beat Thurman on my scorecard and several others'. He has one of the best arguments of being the best currently.

[SFW]

I think those 70+ clinches certainly helped Brook get his one and only top level win over Porter. But yes he did win clear, in my estimation. Porter had a belt was never the best at 147lbs, so even that win wasn't all it got made out to be. Then Eddie ruined his career with Golovkin. Kell himself destroyed what was left by arrogantly ignoring every reason to move up. Got his face broken again, talking all that stupid poo about chocolate brownies there must be a whole store somewhere full of Kell's unused brownies. Maybe it's his mouth that turns people off, never heard anyone talk so much poo with a record padded beyond belief. He's a good fighter but his record makes Calzaghe look like Sugar Ray Robinson. Not to mention he was a massive weight drainer, enjoyed that size advantage for a long time liked fighting smaller guys. No such luck anymore. Not likely he wins a title at 154 unless it's a weaker opponent. The bad beatings shortened his career and so did the career long weight draining. He is more like a what could have been type, because he had the talent no doubt. It'd be nice to see him get one more good win and be done. Lucky he isn't blind already, nobody wants to see that happen.

He pretty much beat Thurman on my scorecard and several others'. He has one of the best arguments of being the best currently.

I thought Thurman clearly did the better work and won by a couple points, and had a harder time boxing Garcia than Porter. Thurman struggled at the end against Danny, against Shawn he took the final rounds. Dealing with Porter's physicality was tough but it was pretty clear who had the better skills,the left hook was landing all night. Shawn showed an incredible chin, it was a great back and forth fight though I think most had Thurman deserving the nod. In any case Porter deserves another chance to prove himself but he won't beat Spence, already lost to Thurman and Brook, so that argument is a stretch. He's top 5 for sure, probably top 3. A win over Garcia would go a long way towards that #1 spot. Don't think he's got the best case for it yet.

[Mexi-Box]

I think those 70+ clinches certainly helped Brook get his one and only top level win over Porter. But yes he did win clear, in my estimation. Porter had a belt was never the best at 147lbs, so even that win wasn't all it got made out to be. Then Eddie ruined his career with Golovkin. Kell himself destroyed what was left by arrogantly ignoring every reason to move up. Got his face broken again, talking all that stupid poo about chocolate brownies there must be a whole store somewhere full of Kell's unused brownies. Maybe it's his mouth that turns people off, never heard anyone talk so much poo with a record padded beyond belief. He's a good fighter but his record makes Calzaghe look like Sugar Ray Robinson. Not to mention he was a massive weight drainer, enjoyed that size advantage for a long time liked fighting smaller guys. No such luck anymore. Not likely he wins a title at 154 unless it's a weaker opponent. The bad beatings shortened his career and so did the career long weight draining. He is more like a what could have been type, because he had the talent no doubt. It'd be nice to see him get one more good win and be done. Lucky he isn't blind already, nobody wants to see that happen.

He pretty much beat Thurman on my scorecard and several others'. He has one of the best arguments of being the best currently.

I thought Thurman clearly did the better work and won by a couple points, and had a harder time boxing Garcia than Porter. Thurman struggled at the end against Danny, against Shawn he took the final rounds. Dealing with Porter's physicality was tough but it was pretty clear who had the better skills,the left hook was landing all night. Shawn showed an incredible chin, it was a great back and forth fight though I think most had Thurman deserving the nod. In any case Porter deserves another chance to prove himself but he won't beat Spence, already lost to Thurman and Brook, so that argument is a stretch. He's top 5 for sure, probably top 3. A win over Garcia would go a long way towards that #1 spot. Don't think he's got the best case for it yet.

Thurman's fight against Porter was way closer than against Garcia. I think that's pretty much consensus. I've not seen any, if any, thinking Garcia deserved the nod. In the case of Porter/Thurman, several, including me, thought Porter deserved the decision.

Garcia is taylor-made for Porter. I don't think a win over Garcia would do much in terms of describing Porter's level. I have no idea how Garcia can beat Porter. It'd be like a worse, worse version of Herrera with the physicality and strong chin.

Also, Spence is no one to say he automatically beats Porter. His best win is over a guy that shouldn't have been competing at WW. Peterson also has been looking horrific since his close fight with Garcia.

[SFW]

Sorry, don't agree with that. Even the decisions indicated your take was wrong, of the two guys Danny was the only one who had a winning scorecard. Nobody really thought Porter won. He didn't. That crude mauling and rarely clean punching = deserved loss.

Not sure how beating Garcia couldn't improve Porter's standing, quite deranged to think otherwise. Danny has a better record, same or higher ranking, hasn't been comfortably beaten yet like Shawn has, most would agree Danny is the better technical fighter too. Porter has an unbelievable chin, it is not his skll set that makes him so dangerous. That Taylor made comment lol, I don't even like Garcia and got a good laugh from that.

Don't you worry about Spence, Errol will sock him up if Shawn ever actually stepped up to that already pubic challenge. Porter too busy chasing a ghost he couldn't beat the first time. This all comes back to the original point to seem to want to deny, Porter was never the #1 welterweight, sorry that has never been nor is now the case. Losing to the 2 top guys in your division, and yes he was beaten clearly by both regardless of a few misplaced feelings, should rightfully keep anyone out of a #1 spot.

[jamamb]

porter was a much harder fight for thurman, he was hurt to the body and really had to fight hard to the end to win that. vs garcia he got way ahead and then just coasted for a win. but i wouldnt say that means porter beats garcia, porter is very strong but garcias a much sharper puncher and should score will with counters. would be a good match up i can see it going either way