Lennox Lewis vs Anthony Joshua

[Cojimar 1946]

Lewis may possess better skills but I would hardly say he is the better athlete. What gives you that impression if I may ask?

[Cojimar 1946]

Also, I'm curious how Joshua compares skillwise and in terms of attributes with Lewis's opponents. Are there any opponents that stick out for people?

Klitschko might be the closest thing to Lewis that Joshua has fought.

[DrDuke]

It's only amusing if you have no idea what you're looking at... ??? Fighting recklessly???

One way to beat Klitschko??? ... How about out-boxing and outscoring Klitschko for most of the rounds... How about knocking Klitschko down 3 times and stopping him... How about being well ahead at the finish so he could have won on points or by knockout... How about out-thinking Klitschko in the mid-rounds and escaping danger???

AJ didn't come to a gunfight with a switchblade... And he didn't get cannonaded like Lewis did... TWICE!!!

Yes, Joshua was fighting in spurts, open your eyes and see it. And all those your wet dreams about him outboxing Klitschko for most of the rounds - we have already seen them, I find no need in repeating about that.

[man]

Klitschko had superb skills but was still out-boxed and out punched by a Joshua.

i don't think that is an accurate
description of that night.

Did Klitschko show superb skills or not??? .... Who was winning on the cards going into the 11th??? ... The 11th was shaping up to being a 3-point round for Joshua, with 2 knockdowns -- making him way up on 2 cards and winning on all 3.

What's your description of the fight?

i didn't see someone being "out-boxed"
or "out-punched". this was a fight which
was the exact opposite. for very long
this was very even and in the end one
man won. could have easily ended five
rounds earlier the other way round.

[man]

Also, I'm curious how Joshua compares skillwise and in terms of attributes with Lewis's opponents. Are there any opponents that stick out for people?

Klitschko might be the closest thing to Lewis that Joshua has fought.

i think lewis was mentally very strong. i could
imagine joshua will turn out to be like that too,
but it seems too early to tell. we must not forget
in terms of number of fights he is still a newbie.

[Kalan]

It's only amusing if you have no idea what you're looking at... ??? Fighting recklessly???

One way to beat Klitschko??? ... How about out-boxing and outscoring Klitschko for most of the rounds... How about knocking Klitschko down 3 times and stopping him... How about being well ahead at the finish so he could have won on points or by knockout... How about out-thinking Klitschko in the mid-rounds and escaping danger???

AJ didn't come to a gunfight with a switchblade... And he didn't get cannonaded like Lewis did... TWICE!!!

Yes, Joshua was fighting in spurts, open your eyes and see it. And all those your wet dreams about him outboxing Klitschko for most of the rounds - we have already seen them, I find no need in repeating about that.

Joshua was a lot more active than Lewis versus Mavrovic... And punching a lot better... You're having wet dreams lad, and they're fogging your brain... Joshua won most of the rounds... He outscored Klitschko early and late unless you're blind.

[Kalan]

Also, I'm curious how Joshua compares skillwise and in terms of attributes with Lewis's opponents. Are there any opponents that stick out for people?

Klitschko might be the closest thing to Lewis that Joshua has fought.

In terms of a right hand counterpuncher... Joshua fires off his right counter the way Oliver McCall did in the 1st Lewis fight... Ollie got Lewis with a nice right in the 1st round, but it was a little high... A few seconds in the 2nd he caught Lewis nicely.

[DrDuke]

It's only amusing if you have no idea what you're looking at... ??? Fighting recklessly???

One way to beat Klitschko??? ... How about out-boxing and outscoring Klitschko for most of the rounds... How about knocking Klitschko down 3 times and stopping him... How about being well ahead at the finish so he could have won on points or by knockout... How about out-thinking Klitschko in the mid-rounds and escaping danger???

AJ didn't come to a gunfight with a switchblade... And he didn't get cannonaded like Lewis did... TWICE!!!

Yes, Joshua was fighting in spurts, open your eyes and see it. And all those your wet dreams about him outboxing Klitschko for most of the rounds - we have already seen them, I find no need in repeating about that.

Joshua was a lot more active than Lewis versus Mavrovic... And punching a lot better... You're having wet dreams lad, and they're fogging your brain... Joshua won most of the rounds... He outscored Klitschko early and late unless you're blind.

You're just an AJ fanboy. Fanatics have no reason.

[oogiebe]

Yes, Joshua was fighting in spurts, open your eyes and see it. And all those your wet dreams about him outboxing Klitschko for most of the rounds - we have already seen them, I find no need in repeating about that.

Joshua was a lot more active than Lewis versus Mavrovic... And punching a lot better... You're having wet dreams lad, and they're fogging your brain... Joshua won most of the rounds... He outscored Klitschko early and late unless you're blind.

You're just an AJ fanboy. Fanatics have no reason.

...seriously...a bromance in the making.

[Kalan]

Yes, Joshua was fighting in spurts, open your eyes and see it. And all those your wet dreams about him outboxing Klitschko for most of the rounds - we have already seen them, I find no need in repeating about that.

Joshua was a lot more active than Lewis versus Mavrovic... And punching a lot better... You're having wet dreams lad, and they're fogging your brain... Joshua won most of the rounds... He outscored Klitschko early and late unless you're blind.

You're just an AJ fanboy. Fanatics have no reason.

I make an honest comparison. If Klitschko won I would give the reasons why he did. You're a hater so it's impossible for you to assess honestly. If you can't find a smoking gun you fashion one out of bar soap.

All anyone has to do is watch the ATG Joshua-Klitschko classic to realize who was scoring with the most damaging punches and combinations for most of the 11 rounds that fight lasted -- before the referee was forced to step in and save Wladimir's life... All you have to is watch Lewis-Rahman 1 to see a jive artist eat a loaded right hander driving straight down the pipe... Joshua was caught with one of the slickest right hands anyone ever threw and no good follow ups.

[DrDuke]

Joshua was a lot more active than Lewis versus Mavrovic... And punching a lot better... You're having wet dreams lad, and they're fogging your brain... Joshua won most of the rounds... He outscored Klitschko early and late unless you're blind.

You're just an AJ fanboy. Fanatics have no reason.

I make an honest comparison. If Klitschko won I would give the reasons why he did. You're a hater so it's impossible for you to assess honestly. If you can't find a smoking gun you fashion one out of bar soap.

All anyone has to do is watch the ATG Joshua-Klitschko classic to realize who was scoring with the most damaging punches and combinations for most of the 11 rounds that fight lasted -- before the referee was forced to step in and save Wladimir's life... All you have to is watch Lewis-Rahman 1 to see a jive artist eat a loaded right hander driving straight down the pipe... Joshua was caught with one of the slickest right hands anyone ever threw and no good follow ups.

I'm not a hater, I've never said, that Joshua sucked. I'm actually saying, that he has the potential, he is developing and being a top guy today, but he has been given some dividends in advance.

[Kalan]

Joshua was a lot more active than Lewis versus Mavrovic... And punching a lot better... You're having wet dreams lad, and they're fogging your brain... Joshua won most of the rounds... He outscored Klitschko early and late unless you're blind.

You're just an AJ fanboy. Fanatics have no reason.

...seriously...a bromance in the making.

It's ridiculous that you can't make an honest comparison between an undefeated modern boxer vs past ATGs who got pasted, blasted and hammered by little guys (like Muhammad Ali did) exposing holes in their defenses without somebody using the bromance BS... There's seriously contorted and deluded brain functioning going on to create scenarios where little tiny dudes who got hit all the time beat bigger, stronger, faster, better athletes who can box better.

Lewis never fought any opponent with the combination of height, size, strength, speed, boxing skills, and cleverness you saw in the ring with Joshua-Klitschko on either side... The closest LL came to fighting a superb boxer-puncher who had a great trainer in his corner was the 1st Oliver McCall fight where he got ripped out in 4 minutes.

[DrDuke]

You're just an AJ fanboy. Fanatics have no reason.

...seriously...a bromance in the making.

It's ridiculous that you can't make an honest comparison between an undefeated modern boxer vs past ATGs who got pasted, blasted and hammered by little guys (like Muhammad Ali did) exposing holes in their defenses without somebody using the bromance BS... There's seriously contorted and deluded brain functioning going on to create scenarios where little tiny dudes who got hit all the time beat bigger, stronger, faster, better athletes who can box better.

Lewis never fought any opponent with the combination of height, size, strength, speed, boxing skills, and cleverness you saw in the ring with Joshua-Klitschko on either side... The closest LL came to fighting a superb boxer-puncher who had a great trainer in his corner was the 1st Oliver McCall fight where he got ripped out in 4 minutes.

Past ATGs showed the remarkable stuff. Some of the modern boxers for the moment aren't fully tested, so the comparison is pretty obvious: you can either go with past ATGs pointing on their achievements or go with modern stars counting on what they can become. Both ways are opinions, both ways have reason behind them.

And McCall had never been a superb boxer-puncher even with Steward in his corner. Lewis made a mistake by looking through him, he paid for that.

[oogiebe]

(Rut Roh, here we go again)

[Kalan]

Put it this way.... After 2 or 3 weeks of working with McCall, Steward told McCall he was quick and versatile enough to beat anybody... He predicted McCall would beat Lewis and confuse the Hell out of him... "Lewis is easily confused."

I'll take the word of an ATG coach about McCall's potential over your's... Was McCall a head case??? ... Of course he was.

[oogiebe]

Put it this way.... After 2 or 3 weeks of working with McCall, Steward told McCall he was quick and versatile enough to beat anybody... He predicted McCall would beat Lewis and confuse the Hell out of him... "Lewis is easily confused."

I'll take the word of an ATG coach about McCall's potential over your's... Was McCall a head case??? ... Of course he was.

I have to be honest. When you asked me to review the vids you posted, I have to agree.

[Kalan]

Past ATGs showed the remarkable stuff.

Thanks for that Oogie.

Now for Duke... Frazier, Norton, Foreman, and Ali showed a remarkable ability to get punched in the face -- and they never faced anyone like Joshua or Klitschko in their lives... So that would be absolute devastation for them.

Joe Louis got knocked down 12 times... That's no record or anything -- but Joshua is supposed to be exposed to the whole wide world when he suffered a knockdown by one of the greatest punchers in the History of Boxing... When Louis suffered his 1st knockdown by Max Schmeling he didn't work his way out of the hole... Joshua did.

Larry Holmes was by far the greatest boxer to come out of that era.... Reynaldo Snipes almost cooled him.

[oogiebe]

Past ATGs showed the remarkable stuff.

Thanks for that Oogie.

Now for Duke... Frazier, Norton, Foreman, and Ali showed a remarkable ability to get punched in the face -- and they never faced anyone like Joshua or Klitschko in their lives... So that would be absolute devastation for them.

Joe Louis got knocked down 12 times... That's no record or anything -- but Joshua is supposed to be exposed to the whole wide world when he suffered a knockdown by one of the greatest punchers in the History of Boxing... When Louis suffered his 1st knockdown by Max Schmeling he didn't work his way out of the hole... Joshua did.

Larry Holmes was by far the greatest boxer to come out of that era.... Reynaldo Snipes almost cooled him.

AJ getting knocked down may have shown vulnerability but having it happen at the hands of an old but still dangerous howitzer from Wlad, doesn't validate any questions, other than, he was fine by the time his butt hit the canvas. I.E. Doesn't prove glass nor granite. IF a gun to my head...he took a great shot and came back to win, much like Wilder.

Agree on Louis; Agree wholeheartedly on Holmes. (most underrated of all time in my view).

[DrDuke]

Now for Duke... Frazier, Norton, Foreman, and Ali showed a remarkable ability to get punched in the face -- and they never faced anyone like Joshua or Klitschko in their lives... So that would be absolute devastation for them.

Joe Louis got knocked down 12 times... That's no record or anything -- but Joshua is supposed to be exposed to the whole wide world when he suffered a knockdown by one of the greatest punchers in the History of Boxing... When Louis suffered his 1st knockdown by Max Schmeling he didn't work his way out of the hole... Joshua did.

Larry Holmes was by far the greatest boxer to come out of that era.... Reynaldo Snipes almost cooled him.

Frazier, Norton, Foreman and Ali never had such opponents as Joshua or Klitschko, cause there had been different times. Those four had been too advanced for their opposition, they had demonstrated a breakthrough in boxing skills. However, the opposition of Frazier, Norton, Foreman and Ali had been tough more in the sense of fighting, than boxing in its modern definition. But such significant advancing over the others in their era made Frazier, Norton, Foreman and Ali able to be compared with later era competitors. And Holmes was in the similar situation, even more - he was the only elite level guy in his times. Yes, he had some tough fights, but so what? Everyone had such.

[oogiebe]

Now for Duke... Frazier, Norton, Foreman, and Ali showed a remarkable ability to get punched in the face -- and they never faced anyone like Joshua or Klitschko in their lives... So that would be absolute devastation for them.

Joe Louis got knocked down 12 times... That's no record or anything -- but Joshua is supposed to be exposed to the whole wide world when he suffered a knockdown by one of the greatest punchers in the History of Boxing... When Louis suffered his 1st knockdown by Max Schmeling he didn't work his way out of the hole... Joshua did.

Larry Holmes was by far the greatest boxer to come out of that era.... Reynaldo Snipes almost cooled him.

Frazier, Norton, Foreman and Ali never had such opponents as Joshua or Klitschko, cause there had been different times. Those four had been too advanced for their opposition, they had demonstrated a breakthrough in boxing skills. However, the opposition of Frazier, Norton, Foreman and Ali had been tough more in the sense of fighting, than boxing in its modern definition. But such significant advancing over the others in their era made Frazier, Norton, Foreman and Ali able to be compared with later era competitors. And Holmes was in the similar situation, even more - he was the only elite level guy in his times. Yes, he had some tough fights, but so what? Everyone had such.

Good points Duke, but I have to defend Holmes. His skillset was so broad and deep, he could've competed on any level in any era IMHO. Size aside.

[DrDuke]

Now for Duke... Frazier, Norton, Foreman, and Ali showed a remarkable ability to get punched in the face -- and they never faced anyone like Joshua or Klitschko in their lives... So that would be absolute devastation for them.

Joe Louis got knocked down 12 times... That's no record or anything -- but Joshua is supposed to be exposed to the whole wide world when he suffered a knockdown by one of the greatest punchers in the History of Boxing... When Louis suffered his 1st knockdown by Max Schmeling he didn't work his way out of the hole... Joshua did.

Larry Holmes was by far the greatest boxer to come out of that era.... Reynaldo Snipes almost cooled him.

Frazier, Norton, Foreman and Ali never had such opponents as Joshua or Klitschko, cause there had been different times. Those four had been too advanced for their opposition, they had demonstrated a breakthrough in boxing skills. However, the opposition of Frazier, Norton, Foreman and Ali had been tough more in the sense of fighting, than boxing in its modern definition. But such significant advancing over the others in their era made Frazier, Norton, Foreman and Ali able to be compared with later era competitors. And Holmes was in the similar situation, even more - he was the only elite level guy in his times. Yes, he had some tough fights, but so what? Everyone had such.

Good points Duke, but I have to defend Holmes. His skillset was so broad and deep, he could've competed on any level in any era IMHO. Size aside.

I agree, I also consider Holmes enough classy to be able to compete in any time.

[Kalan]

Frazier, Norton, Foreman and Ali never had such opponents as Joshua or Klitschko, cause there had been different times. Those four had been too advanced for their opposition, they had demonstrated a breakthrough in boxing skills. However, the opposition of Frazier, Norton, Foreman and Ali had been tough more in the sense of fighting, than boxing in its modern definition.

The times were different because a huge slice of the planet that is producing great Heavyweights didn't have professional Boxing at that time... Since that day the UK has trebled their investment in Boxing and threatening to dominate the sport... Eastern European nations are producing fabulous numbers of Cruiserweights and some Heavyweights.

I don't see any breakthrough boxing skills that Frazier, Norton, Foreman or Ali had... Many of their opponents were so laughable it made for funny comedy on late night talk shows... The competition has strengthened immeasurably.

The definition of Boxing hasn't changed... It's still the Art of Self Defense and the Science of Hitting Without Getting Hit.

[DrDuke]

I don't see any breakthrough boxing skills that Frazier, Norton, Foreman or Ali had...

That's strange. It's possible to agree about Foreman though, his main advantages were size and special power.

Many of their opponents were so laughable it made for funny comedy on late night talk shows...

And? Every top boxer's scalps are mostly journeymen, who are aimed to help higher class fighters to build records.

[Kalan]

I don't see any breakthrough boxing skills that Frazier, Norton, Foreman or Ali had...

That's strange. It's possible to agree about Foreman though, his main advantages were size and special power.

Many of their opponents were so laughable it made for funny comedy on late night talk shows...

And? Every top boxer's scalps are mostly journeymen, who are aimed to help higher class fighters to build records.

There is nothing breakthrough about leading with your head like Norton and Frazier.... That made them easy marks for Foreman... Leaning straight back from punches, like Ali did, isn't a breakthrough... It's a very common flaw and gets you hit with left hooks and blooping shots... Ali's jab delivery was also badly flawed because he left his face wide open.. Walking in while loading left hooks like Frazier did isn't a breakthrough... Right hands can get there faster can take your head off.

You're never going to see Anthony Joshua pad his challenger list with guys like: Jean Pierre Coopman, Brian London, Chuck Wepner, Alfredo Evangelista, Richard Dunn, Terry Daniels, Manuel Ramos, Ron Stander, Dave Zyglewitz, Joe Roman, Crawford Grimsley, and other characters who shouldn't even be main event fighters.

[oogiebe]

I don't see any breakthrough boxing skills that Frazier, Norton, Foreman or Ali had...

That's strange. It's possible to agree about Foreman though, his main advantages were size and special power.

Many of their opponents were so laughable it made for funny comedy on late night talk shows...

And? Every top boxer's scalps are mostly journeymen, who are aimed to help higher class fighters to build records.

There is nothing breakthrough about leading with your head like Norton and Frazier.... That made them easy marks for Foreman... Leaning straight back from punches, like Ali did, isn't a breakthrough... It's a very common flaw and gets you hit with left hooks and blooping shots... Ali's jab delivery was also badly flawed because he left his face wide open.. Walking in while loading left hooks like Frazier did isn't a breakthrough... Right hands can get there faster can take your head off.

You're never going to see Anthony Joshua pad his challenger list with guys like: Jean Pierre Coopman, Brian London, Chuck Wepner, Alfredo Evangelista, Richard Dunn, Terry Daniels, Manuel Ramos, Ron Stander, Dave Zyglewitz, Joe Roman, Crawford Grimsley, and other characters who shouldn't even be main event fighters.

Good points, but I believe the old-timers fought more then today's HW's so it's more of a mix. Like in-between paydays. PS: That's quite an all-star list of not so goods!!! Love it. Looks bad when you see it all together.